117 grain rated at 1450 fps. It looks like it would hurt. Breaks up into 3 pieces. DID THE TEST YESTERDAY AFTERNOON.

Attached Images

	DSC00999.jpg (81.1 KB, 238 views)
	DSC01000.jpg (62.0 KB, 219 views)

Not that I am against new technology as it applies to ammo, but 117 grain is ridiculously lightweight for a .45 acp projectile IMHO. Personally what I truly like about the 45cp is the massive weight of 230 grains. I'll pass......

Another "snake-oil" round.

I also don't like lightweight. Can't hold the momentum when it hits, for one.

Anybody remember "Glaser safety Slugs" ? They were going to revolutionize ammo!

Snake. Oil.

So it's like getting hit with 3 .22 LR rounds at once? Weird.

Just bare in mind...... in these tough times there are those who will strictly jump on the band wagon to make money. I am not holding that against them as I am a Capitalist - but it's up to the buyers to know what is snake oil and what is the real deal. Caveat Emptor (buyer beware).

I see a Paul Harrell video in the future...

Looks like a gimmick to me.

Self defense ammo will generally be a seven yard shot or less so velocity drop and mass energy should not be a huge factor.

I think if it does separate into multiple projectiles you are not going to worry about an through and through with an exit wound to worry about colateral targets.

IIRC, glasser safety slugs were developed for the sky marshalls with the idea of preventing cabin wall / aircraft skin penetrations with the goal of preventing depressurization events in case of a miss or a through and through GSW.

Quik-Shok was rated ABOVE all others, in a LOT of tests.

This ammo was available in .22 rimfire, and most all centerfire ammo. Didn't fly well, and don't know where to find it know.

__________________
NRA Instructor

The box says it's the first intelligent bullet. Are you sure that it weighs 117 grains and that's not it's IQ?

Edit: After looking at the box I see the "IQ" under "117 grain". That should make it smart enough to tell you to go buy some good, 230 grain JHP for your defense load and put that box of intelligent bullets in your cartridge collection.

This looks like it will impress the folks that buy Governors and load them up with .410 buckshot...

__________________
My sgntr is mor thn 30 chrctrs

Regardless of how it performs on the target I am always wary of ammo that uses unusually light or heavy bullets. Same goes for ammo that is loaded super hot. I have seen normally reliable semi-auto handguns choke on ammo like that too often to trust it.

What's with all tyhe talk about "snake-oil". I've heard about it for years, and I mean years....from my Dad and others even older than him....so.....is real snake-oil some kind of super lube for "stuff".

There seems to be a lot of Members talking about it here on the Forum, yet I have to go look at gun auctions on the big auction sites to actually see it described, and it is usually packaged with some kind of gun from the descriptions.

Do you guys get it from milking the snake like getting anti venom?

Inquiring minds want to know.

By the way....I have sold some used cars, and I have been known to wear brown wingtip shoes with a blue suit although many, many years ago, and I was an expert on snake-oil (or so I used to think)

__________________
Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570

Who first mentioned "snake oil" in this thread? That person has all the insight anyone needs into such gimcrackery...

Again, who are these bad guys that complain about the old ammo?!?

I seem to recall a very late James Bond novel wherein our hero uses Glaser safety slugs. BICBW

Jokes aside:

You can all of the details here:

Snake oil - Wikipedia

Available pursuant to Wikipedia's Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License

__________________
Come and take it!!

Ha, about as good as the “ Quad Loads” way back. BTW, Shot a dog that was acting “mad” with a glasser safety slug, DRT. Kids were young and had goats that were afraid of strange dogs, all playing in yard. Closest neighbor was 1/4 mile away.

__________________
Or something like that . . .

My question is whether that light a bullet would generate sufficient recoil impulse to cycle the slide. Remember, the recoil is a function of mass and acceleration. Would you have to use a really light recoil spring?.

Froggie

Throw trick ammo in the trash; get some real bullets.

There's always 45 acp Shot Shells if you REALLY want a bunch of little holes...

Cheers!

P.S. As far as the new bullet tech is concerned I happen to be a firm believer in the Polycase and Lehigh products, the Federal Micro 130gr HPWC... BUT... One needs to draw the line somewhere!

Lehigh is the bullets that look like the tips on multiple screwdriver tools?

All that sort of stuff just makes a big hole in your wallet. Q4318 in my edc.

I'm with you on that one, but the velocity of most 230gr 45acp loads is in the 700fps-850 fps range.
This load is half the weight but TWICE the velocity.
That makes it a high muzzle energy load - since the formula for ME is
ME=mass x velocity SQUARED, so the ME for this one would be a lot higher than a 230gr even at the 850fps upper end.
It isn't like a 117gr bullet is too light for penetration - lots of 9mm SD ammo is in the 115gr-124gr range at 1200fps or so, and it seems to penetrate just fine. This stuff is a couple of hundred fps higher velocity than that.
The 3-way fragmentation is the only part I'd have issue with. A good mushrooming design that retains its mass would make more sense to me.
It should cycle most 45s reliably given the energy it produces based on its higher acceleration making up for the lower mass.
Just playing devil's advocate...

__________________
Send lawyers, guns & money...

I have never shot a 45 ACP with a bullet lighter than 185gr and didn't like that weight. IMO 200gr or 230gr bullets are acceptable with a 230gr bullet being my preference. I'm not a fan of any light for caliber cartridge. I just like ammo with the weight bullets that they were developed with or which became the standard for that cartridge soon after it's creation. Of course there are those who will disagree with me but that's fine, it's why all the different weight bullet ammo sells.

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Muzzle energy doesn't necessarily equal penetration. A lot of that energy is going to be used up in separating the slug into it's three parts. That creates another issue. You won't have a 117 grain slug, you will end up with three slugs weighing only about 40 grains trying to penetrate so it won't be as efficient as a 9mm, 115 grain bullet. Those pieces will loose their momentum quickly. These remind me of the segmented shotgun slugs that Hornady made a while back. They looked great in ballistic gel but they fell apart compared to a regular slug when it came to penetrating something hard (think bone).

Will it make someone/thing bleed?

__________________
Sure you did

When I want to shoot a 117 grain bullet, I pick up one of my 9x19mm pistols. 45 ACP does remarkably well with 185 to 230 grain bullets, really well with modern design JHP bullets of 185 to 230 grains.

__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA

I'd expect to see it on the gun show table where they sell the Dragon Breath shot shells.

A guy gave me the ammo to test. It looks to be aluminum alloy. I will try a few at 25 yards on the bench to see how it prints and then maybe a 2x4 or ??? at a short distance. It looks to be the size of 230 ball and at 1450 fps it should work the slide. I am curious about what the recoil will be. I got a lot of laughs and spilt my coffee once. I have 45's set up for different loads with 10 to 18 pound springs. Maybe this afternoon if it doesn't rain.

Agreed. In the portion of my post that you didn't quote I said as much with this sentence...
FWIW, there is another school of thought that says the "energy dump" of all that ME being dissipated in the target (think tissue damage) is a benefit rather than a deficiency. The thought process being that the bullet doesn't need to poke a smallish 15" deep hole almost all the way through the chest cavity if it can penetrate 10" into the chest cavity and turn a large section of its contents into jelly instead.
Or so goes the "high ME is better" school of thought...

__________________
Send lawyers, guns & money...

For those who equate "snake oil" with Glaser Safety Slugs, maybe you need to rethink that. Glaser Safety Slugs were designed for ONE thing. They were designed for the Sky Marshall program to give them a round which wouldn't penetrate the skin of an aircraft but would be a deadly round if needed on board an aircraft where people were not wearing body armor and high penetration was not needed. I don't believe anyone associated with the company ever said it would revolutionize ammunition. They do have a deadly track record of kills. They are still made by the Corbon folks and are available in 45ACP and 9mm. They do work for what they were designed for. All the original James Bond books, written by Ian Fleming were published long before Glaser's were developed. They were never intended for self defense ammo to be carried on the street. The 45ACP Glaser was 147 grains which is a lot more than the round which sparked this conversation.

If one's need is for a killing round in confined spaces where overpenetration is undesireable then a Glaser is a top choice. Otherwise, don't waste your money.

More boutique ammo to punch holes in paper targets. IMHO the 230 gr round nose hardball is all you really need. Plenty of knockdown, penetration, and reliable feeding.. Hard cast SWC in revolvers.

I never deviate from the FMJ round nose. There are a lot of Germans, Chinese, Koreans, and Vietnamese that could attest to the effectiveness of the original FMJ round, if they were still around.

While the 9mm is our current military round, the 45acp is still used extensively in the military, by special groups

I did not see from this thread, to who made this ammo, was it a major company
or a new company, with a new "Product", trying to test the waters?

A very interresting load indeed, with the light bullet and three sections.
If someone test it, the recoil and penetration would be of interest.

Good post that makes sense.

The ammo was designed for sky marshal use, BUT it was marketed commercially for home defense. The pitch was (and still is) that it was a deadly/incapacitating round that wouldn't over-penetrate. The original pitch was that did massive tissue damage on bad guys, but it could still be stopped by a single sheet of drywall.
Safety Slug - Blue

__________________
Send lawyers, guns & money...

Appears to be an Aguila product. Their .22 specialty loads do what they are designed to do. When I switched from .357 to .45 for my house gun I loaded it with 230 gr Ball ammo because I wanted certain function. I later shot enough 230 gr. Hydashocks to be comfortable using them. Both have a long, positive track record of stopping aggression. Life's too short to be a guinea pig.

__________________
I need ammo, not a ride.

It is on the box-South of the border.

So.....the manufacturer was marked on the box: South of the border.

OK.....there is one of those truck stop, trinket shop, all-in-one places near me down on the NC line.

I'll check out the ammo when I'm picking up snake-oil

Attached Images

untitled.jpg (24.2 KB, 14 views)

__________________
Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570

I don't understand how you can bash an item without even seeing it or actually trying it out.

Like saying you don't like the new corvette based on a picture and description.

You never heard that song,<SOUTH OF THE BORDER DOWN MEXICO WAY>? By Gene Autry----Aguila has been making ammo since the 60's. I bought some <South of the border> chips yesterday.

How come the "Sky Marshalls" don't use Glaser safety junk slugs today? They found these new snake oil junk rounds instead?

sigh.

Went into storage looking at some older, supposedly "new, hi-tech" (or, snakeoil, if you prefer) ammo from way back...

357 Magnum CORBON, Gold Dot (circa 1991), NYCLAD, etc.

All looked good: I would trust them. Just don't need (want?) to just shoot'em up: I may actually NEED them, someday...?

Cheers!

"So.....the manufacturer was marked on the box: South of the border."

Well that does not make it a bad company.
I have used a lot of Aquila & Magtech ammo that is very reliable.....
at least in my weapons.

I didn't overdo the the test. I filled a wd40 can and a cat litter container with water and put the wd40 can in the rear. One shot was all I fired. I did this with my Kimber. I am not sure this 115 grain <aluminum?> bullet should be on the market. I shot from about 15 feet away and the recoil was the normal 45acp kick. The bullet hit good and water squirted but not an impressive shower like a 44 mag. Not a lot of movement. I walked up to look at the hole in the can and there was none and still full of water. There was no hole in back of the litter cont. but it was split in 4 different places. You can see the dent from the bullet in the rear middle of the plastic and all 3 pieces of the hp bullet around the edges. The base of the bullet is on the plastic lid and was in the container. At 1450 fps I think a person may bleed to death with one shot. I was going to bench some at 25y but saw no need. The base of the bullet is what you see on the lid with a piece of the blue plastic in it.

Attached Images

	DSC01000.jpg (62.0 KB, 36 views)
	DSC01002.jpg (144.5 KB, 36 views)
	DSC01003.jpg (210.7 KB, 40 views)
	DSC01006.jpg (149.3 KB, 42 views)
	DSC01008.jpg (70.8 KB, 44 views)

Interesting test. No over penetration.
Jim

Amazing. It converts a .45 ACP into 3 .22 long rifles (maybe shorts, you would have to do the test.)

"no over penetration". Almost no penetration at all, but in fairness, I do not know what the water in the kitty litter container bled off the rounds.

__________________
Kind regards, Heinz

This is ONE of the outflow valves on an Airbus 320. It would close almost immeasurably to compensate for the air leaked by .452 diameter hole. An aircraft pressurization system is constantly pumping air through the cabin. If there were not controlled leaks letting air out as fast as it was coming in the cabin would blow up like a balloon.



It's not as much fun as seeing Goldfinger getting sucked out the window of a Lockheed Jetstar, but unless the bullet hits something important in a controls system, wiring harness, merely poking an air leak is not going to do it.

You need a corrosion fatigue failure like Aloha Airlines Flight 243 for that.

Thanks for the testing and the follow up - but I'll stick to the heavyweights when it comes to 45acp.