I'm going bear hunting in Alaska. I will be using a 300 weatherby mag, and a Glock 20 (10mm) i'll keep on my side.
I've been looking into different rounds, and am unsure what to look to.
Do I want a hard cast/FMJ round? I'm thinking a 200 grain round, but if there is better, I'd switch to it. Or should I go with a controlled expansion Hollow point, or something else?

Been looking at Buffalo Bore, CoreBon, and some Doubletap, they seem to be some good choices, but I feel a little un-educated, i'm not sure what to look for.

Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Rab

I'm going bear hunting in Alaska. I will be using a 300 weatherby mag, and a Glock 20 (10mm) i'll keep on my side.
I've been looking into different rounds, and am unsure what to look to.
Do I want a hard cast/FMJ round? I'm thinking a 200 grain round, but if there is better, I'd switch to it. Or should I go with a controlled expansion Hollow point, or something else?

Been looking at Buffalo Bore, CoreBon, and some Doubletap, they seem to be some good choices, but I feel a little un-educated, i'm not sure what to look for.

Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Rab

What kind of bear? There are at least three major types in AK.

Personally, for blackies, I was happy carrying a modern controlled-expansion hollowpoint and DoubleTap rounds that I chrono'd and found lived up to the factory claims. (Chrono any round in your gun, of course, before being satisfied that it'll do as is claimed.) Buffalo Bore, DT, Cor-Bon have all made ammo that I've chrono'd as living up to the factory claims - I'm not sure that's always true of all ammo in all individual guns (and I've heard that it's not always true) so be wary.

If you're talking brown/griz or white bear country, I'd want nothing but penetration. I believe that any 10mm 200-grainer traveling 1200 fps will give you adequate penetration. On those behemoths, though, you had better study anatomy and hope to have precise shot-placement and a big dose of luck on your side as well. You might consider choosing a round that you've practiced rapid-fire with, because if you find yourself in a situation where you need a handgun against a griz or polar bear, you'll probably want to shoot it a lot very fast.

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Now go make God proud...

The DoubleTap 200gr wide, flat nose bullet would be my choice.

Double Tap offers a solid meant for woods use.

You might want to run your choice of rifle by your guide or someone experienced and local. Some people prefer .338, .375, etc or else the good old .45-70.

I've lived in the heart of bear country in Alaska.Leave the pistol home.If you insist on taking it,the only round that would matter would be a solid brain hit which means piercing the skull.There is no such thing as a bear stopper pistol.Such is only fictional nonsense.

The absurd nonsense that I see on the web forums about bear stoppers is so utterly ridiculous that I normally don't even respond for fear of being absolutely offensive...and I hope I haven't been.

My BUG in dangerous bear country would be a short-barrelled 12"LOP-stocked 12-ga shotgun loaded with Brenneke slugs and slung behind my back.

Don't flame me... this was the first time in my life that I've participated in a bear thread on any forum.

Well, I wasn't asking if I should bring the 10mm or not, or questioning it's affectiveness against a large bear. I'll be taking it, and I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction to a good bullet.

I'm a big fan of Brenneke slugs too, and if it came to an up close and personal encounter, I'd rather have a truck, but a shotgun would do :P

I'm probably leaning towards the 200gr flathead hardcast round from doubletap. Though buffalo bore certainly makes a round that is tempting.
Thanks,

_Rab_

If you're trying to stop a large aggressive bear with a handgun(any handgun),don't even think about body hits.A solid brain hit will be the only thing that matters.That being the case,it stands to reason that the bullet should be non-expanding to penetrate the skull.Don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise.

Shotgun slugs have killed bears but are generally poor performers on large bears and that includes the brenneke slug.

Your rifle is the best thing and your guide will be doing whatever camp chores are needed and so there will be no need in not keeping your rifle handy.

STOPPER rifles will be in the class of weapons which are more common in Africa "which does NOT include the 45/70".Even with good shot placement,the 375 Holland & Holland is considered minimum among "stoppers".

I've killed bears with a 30/06 and with good bullet placement,it will do the job.Needless to say,your 300 WBY is fine assuming you shoot it well.

Bear guides as well as other guides in Alaska are used to seeing "dudes and greenhorns"from the lower 48 show up with all manner of pistols and such in preperation for a bear charge.If you carry a pistol,they will roll their eyes (when you're not looking).

There is always someone who knows someone who knows someone,etc in Alaska who recommends this and that.Such information is usually just as useless because the majority of people living in Alaska live in communities and don't know anymore about the bush than the average New Yorker.

I lived in an isolated cabin about 25 miles from the nearest human being and had a lot of exposure to bears.

I'm a big, big fan of the 10mm, but think it is a little light for work against bears. That being said, I would use either Double Tap, Buffalo Bore or Cor-Bon 200gr hunting loads.

So, Canoe, the 45/70 'guide gun' by Marlin generally isn't used by guides? I've always heard that guides like the gun, and consider it a good short distance stopper.
I've seen video footage of a bear being shot, broadside, and it literally knocked the bear off its feet like a kid being tackled by a 300lb linebacker... Then it got back up and ran away.
I always assumed that a Brenneke slug, or a 45/70, since they're so large, moving slow, would have a devistating affect on even a very large bear.

I assume you've been on your fair share of bear hunts?

See, now you've peaked my curosity by giving me educated information, which is so rare online :P

By the way, I'm taking the 10mm because I like it, and I want to take it. That's really about it. And I figure, If i'm going to take it, I'd might as well load it with a big, hot round.

As others mentioned, go to Double Tap for your hot 10mm loads.

The .45-70, as loaded by Randy Garrett and Buffalo Bore, is an excellent "stopper" rifle. While my Guide Gun kicks brutally with those loads, a 415 gr. bullet at almost 1800 fps. is barely behind .458 Win. Mag ballistics.

I'd not worry about guides rolling their eyes behind my back. Take your Glock, like you planned.

I lived in Alaska, my brother has been there going on 30 years. The .45/70 is a great bear round when loaded with good hot handloads or those from BB or Garrett. I don't know what qualifies someone as an expert on bears, but I will agree that most handguns are anemic against a mad bear. I still wouldn't get caught with my pants down ( literally) without either a good heavy .44 mag, .45 Colt or my .475 Linebaugh hanging from my shoulder or hip.

The .475 may not be a stopper like one of my big rifles, but it would sure put a hurtin' on any bear it ran into and penetrate better than most any rifle round. It could just give me the edge I need to get in a good killing shot.

If your guide rolls his eyes at your gun, ask him why he has one on too. More S&W 329 PD's go to Alaska than anywhere else, because the guides love 'em. They are light, take up relatively little space in their backpacks, and offer enough power and penetration to go through a bears skull.

Master Alaskan bear guide Phil Shoemaker carries a 629 mountain gun loaded with good cast bullet loads and has used it quite effectively on bears. His daughter who is also a guide, was, last I knew, carrying his old .357 with heavy cast bullet loads.

Will the average guy ever have to stop a bear, probably not. Will he be able to hit it in a vital spot if he does have to? Only if he is very well practiced with it. Preparing for a hunt in Alaska, you should be as proficient with your guns, both rifle and handgun, as you can possibly get. This is no place to scrimp on cost. The money you spend, and the time you practice, just may be the difference in surviving or not, should you run into an angry bear while you're doing your business. Believe me, your guide won't be there standing watch while you answer natures call either.

In my job with the U.S Forest Service here in Southeast Alaska, I deal with outfitters and guides who hunt on the Tongass National Forest. Because I have an interest in firearms, I like to talk to them about rifles, handguns, and shotguns for both hunting brown bears, and for protection. There are widely varying opinions on what should be used for hunting bears, for stopping bears, and for last-ditch defense. After listening to these guys, and working in the woods myself for the last nineteen years, I have developed some views as to what works and what doesn't.

First off, there is a difference between HUNTING bears, and being a guide who needs a STOPPING rifle for dealing with wounded bears. Although there are a couple of guides who insist their clients bring a .375 H&H for hunting, they are in the minority. Most are happy as long as the person brings a reasonably large rifle WITH PROPER AMMUNITION, and can shoot well. For them, they will be very happy with your choice of a .300 Magnum as long as you shoot it well and you use bullets designed for expansion combined with deep penetration. Hopefully you know that not all bullets are created equal, and you don't pick a load with a standard el-cheapo 180 grain bullet. Use a Nosler Partition, Swift A-frame, Kodiak, Barnes Triple-Shock, or some other kind of high-tech bullet desiged for expansion AND deep penetration. The bullet should be 180 grains at the lightest, and heavier is better. Obviously an all-copper bullet like the Barnes Triple-Shock can be a bit lighter than those with lead in them and still do the job. For brown bears, however, I still wouldn't go lighter than 180 grains.

For your handgun, people are telling you the right thing when they say you need penetration. I don't know what is available in the 10mm, but look for a heavy bullet with a big flat point. At the low velocities of a handgun, a round nose bullet separates muscle tissue as it passes through. Muscle tissue is elastic. After a round nose bullet passes, the tissue snaps back leaving little evidence of a wound. A flat point bullet, however, goes through like a cookie cutter severing the muscle tissue creating a hole that lets blood out and air in. You do not want any handgun bullet that expands when dealing with brown bears.

Most people don't realize that most expanding bullets for handguns, that aren't designed for self defense against people, are designed to work on whitetail deer. A few years ago here in Southeast Alaska, while packing out a deer, a guy shot a charging bear in the side of the head with a 240 grain JHP from a .44 Magnum. It was a sow that had twin cubs almost the same size as her. The bear went down, and he beat feet away from the cubs, who were milling around trying to figure out what to do. He went back to camp to get his buddies to help him recover the bear head and hide, as required by Alaska law when you shoot a bear in defense of life and property. When he and his friends got back to the scene, mom was back on her feet and she and the cubs were happily feeding on his deer. She didn't look very worse for wear, so they let the bears have the deer and they retreated. From what they can figure (obviously they couldn't autopsy the bear) the bullet hit the large jaw muscles, expanded but didn't break bone, but it knocked the bear out for awhile. Everything happened to work out OK, but this result isn't anything someone can depend on. The guy started carrying heavy LBT style bullets (big flat point lead bullets that don't expand) in his .44 from that point on.

As for leaving your handgun at home... I wouldn't. Since you will be carrying a rifle, the handgun is only for last-ditch defense. You won't use it unless something goes to hell in a handbasket. It is going to be far more effective than your fingernails.

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SWCA 2379

+ whelenshooter, well said!
BTW, If you carry a Whelen, you are in good company.

Gun 4 Fun,
I read too much Elmer Keith as a kid and kept buying bigger and bigger rifles. One day, while shooting a lightweight .340 Weatherby from the bench, I realized I was no longer having fun. I had to wear a mouthpiece when shooting that gun from the bench because it was jamming my teeth together so hard I thought it would break them! I decided to go back to the .35 Whelen. I shot a VERY big black bear through the lungs with my Whelen. Typical of lung hits on black bears it was dead but didn't know it. As it hopped a log heading for thick brush I hit it in front of the right hip with a second shot. I recovered that bullet (a 250 Nosler Partition) from the back of its skull... OVER FIVE FEET OF PENETRATION! I decided then and there I never needed a larger gun in North America. Using data out of the Alliant brochure, I can get an honest (over my chronograph) 2,600 fps out of a 250 grain Nosler Partition using Reloader 15! That is pushing so hard against a .338 Winchester Magnum it isn't funny, and it doesn't kick anywhere near as hard! The load I've settled on pushes the 250 Nosler Partition at 2,560 fps across my chronograph and will group one inch at 200 yards from my HS Precision custom rifle. I recently bought a Ruger Hawkeye Stainless in .35 Whelen to have another Whelen available in case something ever happens to my HS Precision rifle. The gun writers have killed the .35 Whelen with the general public by calling it a "brush gun". With my handload it shoots as flat as a 180 grain bullet from a 30-06 out to 400 yards, which is farther than a person has a right to be shooting at a big game animal. That ain't no brush gun! The ammunition companies didn't do the .35 Whelen any favors either. Although they deny it, I know damn well they kept their factory loads light because they didn't know what old custom rifles the stuff would be used in. Before WWII the Whelen was an extremely popular wildcat, but chamber dimensions and quality of firearms it was chambered in were all over the board. You can bet the ammunition companies covered their butt by keeping the loads light. If the .300 Winchester Short Magnum had been a wildcat from before WWII, you can bet the ammunition companies wouldn't be loading it to the level they are now!

I suppose I've gotten off topic a bit, but I had to tell why I love the .35 Whelen.

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SWCA 2379

I am going to go along and hi-jack this thread a little further. I have owned three .35 Whelens. I own a 700 CDL i bought when they first came out a few years back. My guns will do the same speeds as those you mentioned.

I am a die hard .340 Weatherby fan too! I have owned three of them as well, and own one right now. It would probably be the last one to go.

A little off topic, so back to our regularly scheduled programming.

I lke the 180 grain hornady XTP. Mostly because my Glock 20 likes it best.

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SC Army National Guard

You want relatively heavy solids (200 grain) pushed as hard as you think you and your gun will handle. Shoot it until the bear goes down or goes away, and shoot some more just to be sure. I have heard that a good way to stop a bear with a pistol is shoot him through the open mouth while he is "talking" to you, but I am not sure I want to get that up close and personal. I have also heard that destroying his knees is effective. Both could be BS.