.30 Pederson /7.65 French (.30 super carry?)

Andy Griffith · Jan 5, 2022

First, I want to frame this by saying I like stuff in .32s.

But, I've read the hype, and saw the ballistics that Federal is putting out...
(probably from a 10" test barrel anyway, which is standard practice)

Everything looks and points to this being basically the same cartridge with some tweaks and most importantly marketing as something "new."

Just wondering when they are going to have enough time to fit it into an already busy schedule that's filled with demand for normal products.

I guess someone can make reproduction Pederson devices now.

DWalt · Jan 6, 2022

What gun is it intended for? Surprisingly, there is still a lot of the WWI Pedersen Device ammo still in boxes that is available on the ammo collector's market. I think something like 30 Million rounds were made but never issued.

swsig · Jan 6, 2022

DWalt said:
What gun is it intended for?

Read all about it here, in the M&P semiauto section:

Newest Caliber Ever?

Greyman50 · Jan 6, 2022

Very few Pederson devices survived, one shows up in an auction once in a blue moon. Know a guy in Mt. that has one, says he shoots it and has WWI tank he drives around his place.

DWalt · Jan 6, 2022

Regarding the PDs, there is a local story that may be a myth. At the time all of the PDs were recalled, or so the story goes, they were all sent to the San Antonio Arsenal, just south of downtown San Antonio, where they were entombed in concrete building foundations, like rebar. The San Antonio Arsenal is still there, at least the buildings, but it is now the headquarters of the H-E-B supermarket chain. I know some of the PDs exist in collections, but not many, There are lots of the modified M1903 rifles. I have read that the REALLY rare part of the PD is the belthook scabbard-type carrying case for the components.

shil · Jan 6, 2022

>yawn< Nothing new, just marketing.

stansdds · Jan 6, 2022

shil said:
>yawn< Nothing new, just marketing.

Yeah, remember 9mm Federal? How about S&W .356 TSW?

Darkenfast · Jan 6, 2022

Since it now appears that this is an attempt to get 9mm Parabellum performance out of a smaller cartridge, the consumer will have to answer the following question: Does the 30 Super offer enough advantages over the 9mm to offset the higher cost?

For me right now, the answer is "no". If the ammunition were to become cheaper than 9mm, which is unlikely given the nine's predominance in the market, then I would re-consider. Right now, the 9mm offers power levels ranging from lite defensive loads for the recoil-shy to +p offerings in the mid-400 foot-pound category. Bullets range from fast-opening HPs to deep penetrating FMJs. Practice ammunition, even now, is the cheapest center-fire option out there. The 30's slight improvement in capacity is way down on my list of priorities.

It's probably a well-done cartridge and will have its niche, but I don't see it being wildly successful.

hkcavalier · Jan 6, 2022

Lifelong gun nut with 9mms already: no

Guy or gal buying their first home defense/carry handgun: maybe

Especially if they can get ammo down to less than 9mm. It's possible, there's less materials per round, but of course this isn't the only factor as .22 Magnum is often about the same price as 9mm...

Green Frog · Jan 7, 2022

I posted about this up in the SemiAuto Forum. Sounds like you could do a quick, drop-in conversion with a steel framed Gen 2 or 3 S&W with just a barrel and new recoil spring. How many 7.65 Mausers were converted in the other direction to become Red 9s?

Also, wasn’t there a 7.65 Luger conversion for the Model 39 available in Europe back in the day?

Froggie

Drm50 · Jan 7, 2022

This hacks me off. A few years back I had a very nice French pistol I don’t remember the model, maybe m35. It felt like a 2/3 scale SIG 210. A forum member who is now deceased, Colin Diane was very knowledgeable on the 7.65 Long. He guided through making cartridges out of 32 long brass. I made a few and lost interest. I really liked that pistol. If it had been in 32 auto I would still own it. I still have the load data. With 77gr cast was shooting approx 1000fps. With jacketed bullet of 93gr it was about the same. Not a barn burner. Wish I would have kept that pistol. I think I sold it to a forum member.

DWalt · Jan 7, 2022

Green Frog said:
I posted about this up in the SemiAuto Forum. Sounds like you could do a quick, drop-in conversion with a steel framed Gen 2 or 3 S&W with just a barrel and new recoil spring. How many 7.65 Mausers were converted in the other direction to become Red 9s?

Also, wasn’t there a 7.65 Luger conversion for the Model 39 available in Europe back in the day?

Froggie

Yes there was a Model 39 conversion to .30 Luger. I saw one of them over 30 years ago at a gun show in West Texas, probably made for the European trade. Mainly just a drop-in replacement barrel chambered for .30 Luger and a softer recoil spring. Magazine would be the same as for 9mm. I have also seen a P-38 in .30 Luger. In fact, about any 9mm pistol having a removable barrel could be converted to .30 Luger assuming such a .30 Luger barrel was available. I mentioned earlier about contacting SCCY about the possibility of making up a barrel in .30 Luger for their neat little guns, I'd really like to have one. Only problem is that .30 Luger ammo is not the easiest to find.

I like the idea of one gun being capable of handling multiple caliber rounds. I have a M1911 set up so that the same frame can be used for .45 ACP, .400 Cor-Bon, .38 Super, 9mm, and .22 LR, also have an EAA Witness that will handle .45, .38 Super, and 9mm on the same frame. EAA can supply conversions for .40 S&W and 10mm, but I am not interested in those. The .400 Cor-Bon can be handloaded to duplicate the 10mm's ballistics, but I load mine more toward the .40 S&W end of the spectrum.

DWalt · Jan 7, 2022

Drm50 said:
This hacks me off. A few years back I had a very nice French pistol I don’t remember the model, maybe m35. It felt like a 2/3 scale SIG 210. A forum member who is now deceased, Colin Diane was very knowledgeable on the 7.65 Long. He guided through making cartridges out of 32 long brass. I made a few and lost interest. I really liked that pistol. If it had been in 32 auto I would still own it. I still have the load data. With 77gr cast was shooting approx 1000fps. With jacketed bullet of 93gr it was about the same. Not a barn burner. Wish I would have kept that pistol. I think I sold it to a forum member.

Yours was the French 1935A model, there was also a 1935S model. Back in the 1960s-70s, they could be had for, as I remember, about $35. I had a 1935S. It could be fired with .32 ACP ammo, but functioning was unreliable. The .32 Long cartridge case could be made from .32 S&W Long brass by trimming off the rim and machining an extraction groove, then trimming to length. It would be very time consuming unless you had a small lathe. I suppose it's possible there is a source for such cases somewhere. It could be reloaded using .32 ACP or .32 S&W dies. The French also had a SMG chambered for the .32 Long.

Dave Lively · Jan 7, 2022

hkcavalier said:
Especially if they can get ammo down to less than 9mm. It's possible, there's less materials per round, but of course this isn't the only factor as .22 Magnum is often about the same price as 9mm...

Davidson's is listing Blazer brass 30 Super for $31/50, same as they charge for .380. They are asking $24 for 9mm Blazer Brass, this isn't 2019 anymore.

My guess is 30 SC will be priced like .380 even after the current ammo shortage is over. Less than it is now but still more than 9mm.

.30 Pederson /7.65 French (.30 super carry?)

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