A lot happening in the big world outside of the Smith forum, things can change radically in hours. Some members are insulated with very deep packets and others are on a fixed income getting hammered by inflation. Smith members range from newbees with one new polymer auto and 50 rounds of ammo to the highly advanced collector with a prized collection of vintage Smith safe queens that will never be fired. My guess is a lot of members will cut back to using enough ammo to qualify each year like LE does and save a sufficient amount for a rainy day emergency. Would be nice to spend countless hours every week at the range blowing thru hundreds if not thousands of rounds of ammo but that's no longer practical or financially feasible for many. Much like gas at $5.00 a gallon people won't be going on joy rides.

Well, it ain't dried up yet, stopped by Academy at lunch and they had tons of 9mm and .223/5.56.

Rosewood

Good amount here too.
Today I swung by Cabelas and the Warehouse.
Still no 38 Special.
Bought 100 Rounds of Fed 22 LR Punch at the same price I recently saw on the Fed online direct sales.
So I guess the Warehouse ain’t in the Gouge mode with Punch.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

My thought is still, if you find ammo you can use, buy it now. Prices are down some.

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No baby we aint

And it never will be. Lots of drama for the drama queens. Buy a 9mm or .223/5.56 and be assured that you will always be able to find ammo for .25/rd. Even if you have to build it yourself, god forbid.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Stopped at a little local grocery store and they had a sign in window ammo for sale, walked out with a quart of milk a pound of Swiss Cheese and a 100 rounds of .40S&W


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Happened to go in 2 wal-marts today, plenty of 22 ,shotgun and even 30.06 and 308 hunting ammo. Looks as if the scalpers have laid off buying.

Another reloading genius

Let's get an estimate on the costs of reloading this, ok?
For the sake of transparency let's give a real estimate, for someone starting from scratch.

Reloading tools, for whatever calibers.

Bullets- and give a true price. Not everyone smelts lead, or has tons of it laying around. For those who do, include the cost of molds, ladles, melting pots, etc. And whatever heat source you use to do so... we're not gonna do it on the BBQ grill.
Otherwise, include the cost of bullets.

Cases- and be open and forthcoming with this. Not everybody gets to scavenge other guys's range discards. If you're reloading your own cases, be sure to include the original price of acquisition. Be it Starline, or reloading some stuff you once bought new... we're starting from scratch, remember?

Primers- and again, we're not talking about what you have leftover from years past. You need to list current price if available.

Powder, same deal.

Now, do multiple calibers, so multiple dies, primer sizes, powders (*this is a big concern for new folk. You can't go taking any ol' powder and make it allpurpose).


I DON'T OPPOSE reloading, but there are folks who have been doing it awhile, that make it sound so easy and cheap. There are plenty of upfront costs, a learning curve, and time and workspace requirements that they fail to mention. In comparison, if you buy a case of ammo fully made, you just worry about where to store it.

yeah and now primers are very scarce - none at all available w/in 50+ miles of my home and online sources dried up.

Didn't need it, but I bought another 500 rounds of Blazer brass 115 grain 9 mm yesterday to make up for what I shot in the last few days. I'm not hoarding but I will try to keep my stock up.

I'm quoting prices from Midway USA so they aren't the cheapest you can get if you hunt around.

The Lee 4 hole Classic Turret Kit costs $249 which includes:
Turret Press with Auto Index
Auto Drum Powder Measure
Large and Small Safety Prime System
Safety Powder Scale
Case Conditioning Kit (Including: Case Trimmer Cutter and Lock Stud, Chamfer Tool, Large and Small Primer Pocket Cleaner, Lee Case Sizing Lube)
Modern Reloading 2nd Edition, Revised Reloading Manual

Next you will want a set of calipers which will cost you $22.99

A 4 die carbide set of handgun dies from Lee will cost you $48.38 but can be found for less.

Ammo Blocks - you can use the plastic trays from factory ammo.
Brass - you probably saved your brass from factory ammo
Bullets - 500 Cast bullets will cost you $36 (Missouri Bullets)
Primers - 1000/$79 but can be found for less
Powder - 1lb will run you $28 to $40, $35 for the purpose of this post

I think that is the minimal needed to start reloading 38/357, 45 Auto or 9mm ammo.

Total will be $470 which isn't all that bad considering the prices for components are inflated right now.

If you load 500 rounds of 9mm instead of buying for $16.50 a box (cheapest I've seen online) that covers the first $165 of the equipment and components. Midway has 50/FMJ rounds cor $21 so that covers the first $210 of the cost to reload for starters.

The price for a box of 50 counting components only will be $12.50 at those prices which is still under retail for the same box of ammo. If prices for primers come down to $40/k and powder to $25/lb the box will run you only $7.50.

Since I'm one of the long time reloaders and have components I can still load the same box/50 for only $5.50 but I'm sure that will never happen again once I exhaust my supplies.
I'm still using the Lee 4 Hole Classic Turret Press and Lee Deluxe Carbide handgun dies.
When I started reloading I was in the green in only 6 weeks.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

And comparing costs for reloading 9mm is the most conservative cost comparison available. Wasn't but a couple years ago, even with costs down, that it was cheaper to buy bulk brass cased 9mm than to reload for it.

Now if someone wants to see a much larger difference in cost, try comparing reloading 44 mag to buying factory rounds in today's prices.

Or maybe some higher priced rifle rounds. Especially if you consider your tools already paid off by loading bulk pistol rounds.

Now think of the more long term possibilities, should we live that long. When the next generation takes the reins, which is happening in some larger cities, you be lucky to get ammo or reloading supplies at all.

All these posts are making me think twice about getting into shooting to supplement my income.

Google made this photo pop up on my phone this morning, a year after I took it.
I'd made the rounds of Palmetto State Armory, Cabela's, and these are the ammo shelves at Academy.
The other stores just had empty shelves, but Academy put pictures of ammo on the shelves.
Since then, the ammo that has made it to the shelves was first 3x the old price, now it's double.
Ah, the good old days.

Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

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Slava Ukraini!

I completely agree but just to keep in the spirit of the question of startup costs I went with one of the most common rounds bought today.

When reloading cor the 44 Magnum and the 45 Colt and a few others ?you will save a lot of money.

A few years back simple lead cast 45 Colt ammo was $50/box. I was able to load the same box of 50 for $17. That enabled me to shoot my single cation 45 Colt revolvers without hearing the cash register ring on every shot. I just looked online and that same $50 will buy you only 20 rounds who h is a big nut to crack. Forget about trying to buy 454 Casull, 50 AE, 460 S&W Magnum or 500 Magnum ammo today!

I save money on all my loading but the 45 Colt and 30-06 ammo saves me the most.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

World affairs being what they are, I went online and ordered 500rnds of 9mm 115grfmj just in case. It came in 4 days and cost $191.00 delivered. This is not cheap and I don't own a 9mm but several of the younger folks in my family do and I don't want there to not be a little ammo just in case..........

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

That was a prudent thing to do, especially having none!

NOTHING is cheap anymore.

I agree it's not the best price around but $19/50 rounds isn't all that bad these days.

Natchez has Blazer Brass 115gr FMJ ammo priced at $349.99/1000 rounds. That's 34¢ a round instead of 38¢ a round that you paid. $17 a box beats $19 any day.

I'm not trying to push a site, I'm only trying to save our members some money.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

On the other hand, if “they” are buying it and “they” have it, you are the one with the shortage and the crisis. “They” don’t have a shortage and it’s not their crisis.

Unless, of course, you shoot.

Originally Posted by Duckford
Yes, the lesson is, don't buy at the height of the market.

That's why nobody should be buying now.

Do we know if the market has peaked? World events may change the market in ways no one can predict.

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OGCA Member.

… and some people are having difficulty seeing why prices/availability have become what they’ve become. *facepalm

Why, because the man bought some ammo for the younger ones in his family who like to shoot, and own firearms. And had NO ammo.

Talk about facepalm. Get a clue. And mind your own business about who is buying what. He's providing for his family.

"Worry about yourself, don't worry about what he's doing" as my long gone grandmother used to say.

If the price ever comes down, you can just explain that you didn't pay too much - you just bought too early.

Myself, if prices recede to sane levels, I'm going to climb down off Mount Ammo and go build 2 more mountains.

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Just Say No - To Social Media

No. It’s because of the panic mentality of buying **** you don’t even need just because “everybody else is” - It’s simply FOMO ****, and it’s why everybody is still in this mess in the first place.

Nobody’s saying his family members who like to shoot (and you know presumably actually own 9mm firearms in their homes so they would have a use for 9mm ammo) shouldn’t be able to buy their own ammo if they feel the desire for it. For the record, he didn’t say anything about his family members not having any ammo, or even not being able to find more ammo … He said he bought it “just in case” - twice. This is panic buying.

Especially since (and yes, I’m reading a bit between the lines here so I might be a little off base but …) it’s very likely that those 500 rounds he just panic bought will simply end up sitting in storage unused in his house for years. So, it most likely wasn’t a rational decision, but one that has been playing out all across the country for two years now by panicky people who are feeding off of each others anxieties.

Just like a lot of other people are still doing.

Because they’re panicking.

And yet some of us can’t seem to figure out why the current ammo crunch is as bad as it’s been or is lasting as long as it has.

“We have met the enemy, and he is us.”

So all the governments didn’t have any stockpiles ? Didn’t they learn from the last couple shortages? lol

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the rules? there are no rules

The conundrum.

Governments are run by people. I suspect a similar percentage of governments are well stocked as members here.

The difference is that the governments aren’t whining about me buying ammo and shooting.

JBJ
Just Blame Janis.

Oh Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz,
Bought my friends tons of Ammo
so they can Defend.
Now my pockets are empty
So it's a bus to Fort Hood,
For some full auto fun
And a Kalik afterward.

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Have Fun/Stay Safe

I believe that's good planning. I have money in the bank that I'm not planning on using anytime soon but I have it there just in case. I have insurance just in case. I try to have plenty of everything I might need just in case. Instead of complaining I try to plan just in case. Remember the five Ps just in case. Larry

Academy and Bass Pro both had full shelves yesterday, of course still missing certain rifle rounds, but as for 9mm and .223, they have plenty. I even picked up 1000 large pistol magnum primers at BPS, granted it was the only box they had.

Rosewood

Then there was a nervous guy at the range.
Told me he bought 20K or so of 5.56 ammo and lotsa new guns etc etc.
When asked how many gallons of drinking water he kept on hand, it was also storm season, he replied that he kept TWO gallons in the house.

After waiting over an hour to get a lane, he fired ten and packed up.
What's up I asked and the now even more nervous guy said he's going to buy water.

The funny part was him trying to pull both the set trigger and the other one at the same time with no ammo nearby.
He had claimed to know everything about guns.
I then took the bolt out if my pocket and said that this might help.
Then he tried puling both triggers again.

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Have Fun/Stay Safe

I enjoy reading these posts and the broad range of theories as to why ammo "drys up" and stays so expensive. My thought as to who ultimately is to blame...US. Yep to me it's an easy one to figure out. The ones that if a mouse farts in the woods we run out and buy every last box because we think we have to pass on to the next generation 50,000 rounds of 9mm because it won't be there tomorrow. The ones that see that golden opportunity to make a buck or two so they buy every last round of every caliber they can get their hands on then run to GunXXX to sell at a bloated price. Heck if I was Cheaper Than Dirt or whoever else why the heck would I lower the price when I got a market foaming at the mouth for a box of whatever. Why would I as a store lower the price when I have a line of guys waiting at the door for that box of .22.....

Those type of ammo buyers do exist, no doubt. But you won't find many of that type on this site. You will find a lot who have been keeping a good ammo stock since the first years of the Clinton administration, or before.

We saw what was happing, and planned ahead. It only made sense to do so. Lots of us don't have to buy ammo now, and don't. Only a few years ago, I encourage people to buy ammo during the good times, knowing something would again, as so many times before, cause a run on ammo.

I don't know if prices will ever return to what they were before. I hope they do, it's better for all of us. But I'll continue to encourage people to buy whatever they can afford, and have room to store, same for reloading.

It's as it was long ago, the sensible thing to do.

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OGCA Member.

How much ammunition do I "need"? All of what I have. There is certainly a point of diminishing marginal returns though...unless you're out to profiteer.

While I do need all I got, I'm still going to do some shooting this Spring, Summer and Fall. I won't bother replenishing what I use. At my age, I don't want to get kicked off "Survivor Island" with a bunch of "hidden immunity idols" gathering dust. If I run into a family member who could use some, I may spare a round or two...YOLO!!!

I am with muddyboot, I have my share of ammo and components purchased quite a while back. I will be retiring in May and will have the time to do the reloading that I can't seem to get to now. Generally, I shoot my reloads and just hold on to the factory stuff. I started reloading for 44 and 357 because as other said you really could buy 9MM cheaper than you could reload it. Used to be the same for dove loads. You could buy a case of 7.5 Remington low brass dove loads for 59.00 bucks. Do not know if those days will ever return, but ammo is like gas it goes up and down a lot. Unfortunately, I don't have a thousand-gallon tank to lay in gas for the future! Can you imagine the hoarding that would take place?????

I agree. I am a recreational shooter/hunter. I have always kept a"buffer" to keep shooting through these bad times. I chuckle at those whiners who say we are our own worst enemy.......Tain't so.

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S&W Accumulator

Now is not the time to get into reloading. Primers are almost impossible to get and so is powder. It would be stupid to get started now.

But it would be more stupid to not get into it if this situation does calm down. I started right after Newtown. My only regret is I didn’t buy bricks of primers when they were available all day for $35. I have a few bricks left and thousands of rounds loaded. And I’m still loading 100 9MM rounds for about $13.

I gave 34 cents before tax and shipping. I bought S&B as I think Euro ammo is hotter than bargain US brands...........

I already had about 1,000 rnds of fmj and a coupla hundred rnds SD ammo so I wasn't out.
The younger folks in my family are taking care of themselves for the most part.
At the height of the scare I did give my daughter 100 .380 and an older woman that is like family a couple of boxes of .38spl 1 lead ball and one 135grGDSBSB. as she had only the 12rnds in her two HD guns.
I didn't buy the 500rnds for plinking but just in case..............

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

I've been loading more on my single stage and less on my progressive press. Makes me more mindful and uses less components. I'll shoot 50 rounds instead of 100 on a range trip.

We are not going to make the price of ammo go down by not buying it. On the contrary, over the long term, the price will go up because the ammo manufactures will respond to the lack of demand by reducing production. We are actually better off if people keep buying as much as they can. In that case, and what we are seeing at this point, the manufactures will expand production to meet demand. That's why we are seeing more 9mm and 223 than anything else. The military and police demand for it is driving what the ammo companies are producing first as they restart production. There is a high demand, hence, there is high production. Unless you have been sleeping for the last two years, you might have noticed that the economy has shut down for a while. It's going to take some time to catch up. This price bump is being driven by a slow down in the economy and the supply chain. Not people stocking up for the zombie apocalypse. As to $9 a box 9mm, we may not see that for a while. Not because people are buying it all, but because the 22% or so inflation we are experiencing makes a dollar worth about 80% of what it was worth two years ago. If you feel like you're being taken advantage of at 16 bucks a box, by all means, keep your hand in your pocket. If you like to shoot, then keep shooting as long as you can afford to. If you're flush and you need the security of having 100000 rounds on hand, buy, buy, buy. If you have a lot of free time on your hands and you like waiting for the truck to show up at the local Wally World so you can buy a couple of boxes of 22's, enjoy. I don't even care if you're selling it at the gun show for a 200% profit. Good on you. Because none of this is having any real effect on the general availability or price of ammo right now. Economic forces way beyond this hobby are driving everything right now and the only thing that is going to improve things is time. Buy away!

When I happen to go in a local wally world, always check the ammo. For past few weeks every one has Plenty of Fed 325 boxes and CCI standard vel. as well as some 308 , 30-06 and even 243 once every few days. Yesterday a friend sent me a pic of the local Academy’s ammo shelf ful of assorted 22, 9 mm and 5.56/.223. Going by today to check just for fun. Been busy getting ready for MVPA swap meet this weekend, a Big Time will be had. BTW, last year quite a few firearms for sale too.

I hope many don't have that mindset anymore however I have went toe to toe with a few in the past I don't know if there is a search engine on this site but I've been told things like "it's capitalism" and "my right to buy all I can" etc etc which are bot true but certainly don't help. For me it's simple it's the old supply and demand when demand spikes and stays high the price probably won't go down on something like ammunition. Does inflation raise the price? Yep. Does the price of metals raise the price? Yep. Does the rumor of "no more ammo" because the war started or there was a mass shooting raise prices when demand goes up? I will let you ponder that. Me I have bought and encouraged others to do the same when times are good so we don't have to be the ones that run store to store or post they scored a thousand rounds before Joe could get any. Plus it's way less stressful to have what you need. It just threads like this pop up and that chosen few spin out next thing you know we are back to square one waiting.......

You can't control what folks do or say, so no reason to worry about it.
Though I will ponder your response with a quality bourbon.

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OGCA Member.

Some current info from across the pond regarding ammo availability. I can only report about the situation in Switzerland, but that should be a good indication about how things are in the rest of Europe:

We do actually have an unexpected shortage, lots of ammo is out of stock. When it comes to the popular calibers .223 and 9mm, the selection has become very limited, you have to take what you can get, and some dealers are already limiting the number of rounds per customer (have seen 50, 100 and 150 round limits), and one dealer sells the remaining .223 only to customers who buy a rifle.

I have no idea if this is caused by panic buying or if there actually are changes in the supply line because of the war, but at least for the popular calibers, the shortage is real in this neck of the woods.

I stopped in at a somewhat local to me gun shop here in SE Pennsylvania over the weekend. They had a pretty good supply of ammunition ....9mm at $20.00/50....45 ACP & .357mag at $28.50/50 and .38 special at 26.50/50 ...all Remington brand. Also CCI Standard Velocity .22 at $49.95/500 and CCI Mini Mags at $59.95/500 . No limits on how much you buy. The prices aren't great but it is available.

Me too but make mine Raynal Brandy...........

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

Actually, those prices aren't so bad these days but for the rimfire ammo. $28.50 for 45 ACP and .357 Magnum anno isn't all that bad. $26.50 for the .38 Special ammo is a bit high.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I got a box of 20 Remington 30.06 180grn today for $23.95. First .06 I've seen in a long time. Don't think prices will come down on those anytime soon.

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No baby we aint

I bought a box just before the scamdemic. I think I remember about 17$. $24 seems about reasonable these days.

I started reloading in 1970 with a $9.95 Lee loader. Used it for many years. As time went on I added a $25 press and $30 dies, and then later a $50 press and dies in another caliber.

In 1975 I got a huge supply of lead for free from a gas station that closwed down, and started casting my own boolits. I still have lead left. I don't need to buy bullets.

I'm not a real big shooter, but I do reload everything except .22 LR. I keep good records and in my 54 year career in the hobby I have reloaded over 40,000 rounds. At that level my equipment is totally amortized.

My last component buy was March, 2020, when I bought powder and primers on sale. With that price point I now am loading centerfire pistol cartridges for $1.50 a box (i.e., 3 cents a piece).

If I had bought a simple Lee Loader in March, 2020 for 30 bucks, I would have paid 33 cents per round for my first 2 boxes, and everything made after that would be for 3 cents each.

Reloading doesn't require a Dillon that costs thousands of dollars. It does require a little time and effort, plus a willingness to do it. Who knows, it might just end up as being yet another rewarding hobby.