357 magnum defensive ammo

rwsmith · #51 07-26-2023, 01:35 PM

.... Lucky Gunner does a good job of testing also.

BTW: While we are talking about self defense, I don't think that the FBI requirement for 12"-18" of penetration in gelatin is the same as that required for personal defense, so I try to use ammo that works at the lower end of the spectrum.

smithra_66 · #52 07-26-2023, 01:52 PM

I like bullet weight. Give me the heaviest with the best sectional density.

the 357 mag is plenty powerful enough in normal pressure levels too. No need for super duper "+p" or any of that.

BabaBlueJay · #53 07-26-2023, 07:41 PM

Let the games begin 😁

My two finalists are the Winchester Silvertip 145 grain and Black Hills JHP 125 grain. Only one that has not been tested is black hills which arrived today. Going to test the first dry day and pick a winner 🏆 as usual I'll post the expansion test pictures and put it through the same accuracy and recoil tests as the others.

BabaBlueJay · #54 07-26-2023, 07:42 PM

Double post my bad

ArchAngelCD · #55 07-26-2023, 11:08 PM

Aim Surplus actually has the 145gr Winchester Silvertip ammo in stock right now.
19.95 cor a 20 round box, that is the same price from about 4 years ago and even before that. Like I said, the 50 round box was either $50 or $52, not sure which means the price for the 20 round box is the same as back then. I still have over 200 rounds so I didn't order any. That might be a mistake on my part and I just might change my mind.

Model19man · #56 07-26-2023, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD

Aim Surplus actually has the 145gr Winchester Silvertip ammo in stock right now.
: 19.95 costs for a 20 round box, that is the same price from about 4 years ago and even before that. Like I said, the 50 round box was either $50 or $52, not sure which means the price for the 20 round box is the same as back then. I still have over 200 rounds so I didn't order any. That might be a mistake on my part and I just might change my mind.

Seems like a decent deal: AimSurplus, LLC

BabaBlueJay · #57 07-27-2023, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD

Aim Surplus actually has the 145gr Winchester Silvertip ammo in stock right now.
19.95 cor a 20 round box, that is the same price from about 4 years ago and even before that. Like I said, the 50 round box was either $50 or $52, not sure which means the price for the 20 round box is the same as back then. I still have over 200 rounds so I didn't order any. That might be a mistake on my part and I just might change my mind.

I might order a stash of this there. I'm going to do my due diligence and test the Black Hills Tomorrow or Saturday but then I'll buy whichever wins in decent quantity

BabaBlueJay · #58 07-28-2023, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockquarry

Just this morning I was shooting some .357 handloads through a M28 4" Highway Patrolman. I use the original .357 Magnum bullet, the H&G #51 developed by Phil Sharpe. It's a 160 grain cast plainbase SWC loaded with 12 grs. #2400. Muzzle velocity is probably 1100 fps in the 4" gun. It's accurate, recoil is very tolerable (more so than the hotter factory stuff), and it will likely do anything hotter .357 loads will do, but I don't have much need for shooting through bullet proof vests or cars like some.

The #51 is more useful than the #358429 or #358439 because you don't have to crimp it using a make-do method because of bullet length. Accuracy of the #51 will equal either of the Lyman designs.

I seldom shoot factory ammo, but if any company produced a factory .357 load like mine, I think it would be a great and useful .357 load. I realize Buffalo Bore and maybe others make .38 Special loads to approximately those specs, but I don't know if anyone downloads .357.

Thats an interesting 🤔 concept. So you make 357 purposefully weaker? I have a single stage maybe I'll try and make a load like that, if only just to try it out.

Chuck Edwards · #59 07-28-2023, 05:34 AM

I've standardized on the R-P 158-grain SJHPs. On the rare occasion that I carry a .357, it's in a 681-2 that's regulated for 158s or in a 28-2 that's zeroed for them. The guns are great shooters, but at 71 carrying and shooting those bricks isn't as much fun as it used to be. They do get some use as woods guns.

When I carry a revolver, it's usually my 3" M10-7 with the R-P version of the FBI load.

rockquarry · #60 07-28-2023, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabaBlueJay

Thats an interesting 🤔 concept. So you make 357 purposefully weaker? I have a single stage maybe I'll try and make a load like that, if only just to try it out.

Reasonable power is fine and I doubt the hotter loads will do any more than mine except in the minds of the gunfighting fantasizers. Accuracy seems to be of secondary importance to many nowadays, but, for me, it's the most important consideration for the loads I shoot, whether they are my handloads or factory ammo. I also like reduced recoil and blast as I may shoot fifty rounds or more of my described handload on one trip to the range.

BabaBlueJay · #61 07-28-2023, 09:47 AM

Welp, Silvertip wins! After testing the black hills I was not too impressed. I would show the bullet from testing but it overpenetrated and I could not find it. In the high speed camera it also appeared to lose weight and took a nose dive after entering the water. My accuracy with it was also supbar going 6/6 on body of steel silhouette but no heart plate shots. It wasn't much better on paper with a spread of over 4" at 10 feet. A lot of this could be me and probably is, this is not the most scientific test but for me as shooter it represents how I perform with a given round. Silvertips it is, time to stock up.

Hair Trigger · #62 07-28-2023, 11:33 AM

Seems like most respondents are using 110 and 125 grain bullets. I prefer a heavier bullet, 158 grain JHP (Hornady XTP) for both my .38 Spl and .357 Magnum loads. The .38's are +P, run about 875 fps, and my magnum loads about 1250 fps. If I need something more powerful, I'll just carry a larger caliber, I have several to choose from.

My most carried EDC is a 2-1/2" M66-1.

BabaBlueJay · #63 07-28-2023, 12:18 PM

Bought a decent bit from Aim Surplus to sight it and have some in reserves. If they do well with their service I'll buy an additional 20-30 boxes

these Silvertips are the real McCoy! Thanks to everyone and Archangel thanks for letting me know about the great deal at Aim Surplus!

SnidelyWhiplash · #64 07-28-2023, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabaBlueJay

Welp, Silvertip wins! After testing the black hills I was not too impressed. I would show the bullet from testing but it overpenetrated and I could not find it. In the high speed camera it also appeared to lose weight and took a nose dive after entering the water. My accuracy with it was also supbar going 6/6 on body of steel silhouette but no heart plate shots. It wasn't much better on paper with a spread of over 4" at 10 feet. A lot of this could be me and probably is, this is not the most scientific test but for me as shooter it represents how I perform with a given round. Silvertips it is, time to stock up.

No argument from me. I've been a big fan of Silvertips for many years...with the exception of their 185 grain JHP .45 ACP...those are little hand grenades on a brass case! Recoil and blast are far too much for effective handling...especially in a Lightweight Commander. I gave to some to a friend and he called me after shooting them and called me every dirty name he could think of plus he made up a few.

Something for thought...I also like Winchester's "Treasury Load"...the old 110 grain +P+ JHP they sold to law enforcement. It's not made anymore to my knowledge but Winchester does load it in an equivalent .357. My 2.5" Colt Python loves that load.

BabaBlueJay · #65 07-28-2023, 03:53 PM

CJH · #66 08-07-2023, 06:18 PM

Time to see what all the excitement is about!

flintsghost · #67 08-07-2023, 08:53 PM

Gold Dot 135 Grain Short Barrel is hard to find periodically but it is still the best. What that says is that when it is available buy as much as you can afford. Minimum of a case. That's what I did and I use it conservatively, not just burn it up at the range for practice. I use it for qualifications and carry only.

31FordA · #68 08-07-2023, 10:38 PM

When I carried my 19-7, 25 years ago, I used Silvertips as my .357 load as everyone told me not to shoot 125 gr Magnums in it, and because it was the approved FBI .357 load. When I switched to a 3” GP-100 I tried a variety of .357 loads in it, finally settling on 125 grain Golden Saber .357 because it shot the best in that revolver. Another factor was that reliably finding .357 Silvertip ammo had become a nuisance.

ArchAngelCD · #69 08-08-2023, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintsghost

Gold Dot 135 Grain Short Barrel is hard to find periodically but it is still the best. What that says is that when it is available buy as much as you can afford. Minimum of a case. That's what I did and I use it conservatively, not just burn it up at the range for practice. I use it for qualifications and carry only.

IMO that ammo is hardly a magnum round. They are only rated @990fps and they didn't even do that. That sounds like a .38 Special +P to me. BTW, the 135gr .38 Special +P Short Barrel ammo is rated @860fps and it does do that in my M442 and slightly more. (880fps)

Shoebox1.1 · #70 08-15-2023, 10:03 PM

Lobogunleather thank you for Your service and your comments. Made me smile

ddixie884 · #71 08-15-2023, 10:27 PM

Are the newest run of the .357s put up in nickel cases? It has been a while but the last ones I got on clearance from Midway were in nickel then someone on here said they got some in plain brass.........

oddshooter · #72 08-15-2023, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CH4

All the above.
I also like Speer Gold Dot 135 gr short barrel 357 or 38 +p.

oh sure.

and where no you mine unobtanium?

luvsmiths · #73 08-15-2023, 10:47 PM

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to be shot with ANY of the rounds mentioned here, or any that will fly out of a 357!

ddixie884 · #74 08-17-2023, 01:21 AM

In my hall closet.............................

ArchAngelCD · #75 08-17-2023, 03:22 AM

Read the post incorrectly.
Sorry, never mind

pantannojack · #76 08-17-2023, 01:18 PM

I vote Silver Tip for use on VAMPIRES.

ArchAngelCD · #77 08-18-2023, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pantannojack

I vote Silver Tip for use on VAMPIRES.

I thought the Silver bullets were for Werewolves ...

Slight OT
My wife loves horror films. She saw a box of LaserCast bullets on my loading bench and it has the words, "The silver bullets" written on it.
Well, my wife has a fairly good sense of humor so she runs upstairs yelling, "You didn't tell me there are Werewolves around!".

rwsmith · #78 08-18-2023, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD

I thought the Silver bullets were for Werewolves ...

Slight OT
My wife loves horror films. She saw a box of LaserCast bullets on my loading bench and it has the words, "The silver bullets" written on it.
Well, my wife has a fairly good sense of humor so she runs upstairs yelling, "You didn't tell me there are Werewolves around!".

...sure keeps 'em away, doesn't it!

BabaBlueJay · #79 08-26-2023, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD

I thought the Silver bullets were for Werewolves ...

Slight OT
My wife loves horror films. She saw a box of LaserCast bullets on my loading bench and it has the words, "The silver bullets" written on it.
Well, my wife has a fairly good sense of humor so she runs upstairs yelling, "You didn't tell me there are Werewolves around!".

With Halloween 🎃 around the corner I of Silvertips to fend off the werewolves and vampires. Bought the entire stock from Aim Surplus after a great experience on a small test order. Sorry to all my fellow silvertip fans, Pumpkin Ales 🎃 on me?

Faulkner · #80 08-27-2023, 12:40 PM

Hmm, I have obviously under thought my .357 ammo selections. I generally carry 158 grain JSP's in my .357 lever gun carbines and although I have never shot anyone, I have taken quite a few feral hogs and whitetail and they all dropped quickly.

In my revolvers, I generally stick with .38 +P for carry, usually 158 grain Federal Hydra Shok. I've shot some 125 grain .357 ammo, but my preference leans towards the heavier bullets. I have to admit I'm impressed with the OP's testing data.

CH4 · #81 08-27-2023, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabaBlueJay

Gold Dot is amazing I just can't ever find it.

That’s for sure!
However, I just scored 6 50 rd boxes of Speer GDHP 135 gr 38 +p short barrel for about $15 a box at local pawn shop. Still smiling

BabaBlueJay · #82 08-27-2023, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CH4

That’s for sure!
However, I just scored 6 50 rd boxes of Speer GDHP 135 gr 38 +p short barrel for about $15 a box at local pawn shop. Still smiling

That is like finding an actual pot of gold 🪙 at the end of the rainbow 🌈 was there a leprechaun behind the counter? What an incredible deal that is!

Biggfoot44 · #83 08-28-2023, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather

The contrary opinion: For personal defensive use .357 magnum is greatly overpowered for the need, and use within populated areas is questionable at best.

I carried .357 magnum revolvers on and off-duty for many years and have been present for several actual shooting events. Those experiences left me convinced that good .38 Special +P was more than enough for the intended purposes and much easier to shoot well when necessary.

I'm going to call out the part in the first paragraph about " populated areas " . Plenty of .357 loads have less penetration than Plenty of .38+P loads .

But yes , the better .38 +P loads are Plenty Adaquate for Defense/ Duty use . I feel Plenty confident with .38 guns , with loads of my choice . Outside of full power 125 JHP , it's not a big deal to me between. 38 and .357 guns .

J frame , .357 is pointless.
Medium frame - What's best suited depends on the gun , the shooter , and the particular shooter .

Magnum_PI · #84 08-30-2023, 05:21 PM

I personally always carry heavier weight rounds (i.e. 357s are 158 grain preference, 38s 135 to 158 for defense and 158 for target shooting).

I recently tried out some Hornady Critical Defense 125 grain because it was what I could pick up for now, and was very disappointed in the accuracy and will not personally go that route in the future.

I don't currently have a "favorite" since I am getting back into 357s but am looking to settle on one for my 4 inch L Frame in the near future.

In my 640 Pro, I just carry 38+P and am perfectly happy and feel secure with that choice.

Something I'd be interested in trying (if it can be found in the future, as I can tell, it's not yet out) is the Federal 357 HST round.

I had used HST 147s in my 9mms and found them to be VERY accurate, and the ballistics testing I had seen were VERY GOOD.

I have a preference to Federal and PMC ammo in general.

Buy Personal Defense HST .357 Magnum P357HST1S for USD 44.99 | Federal Ammunition

pasound · #85 08-30-2023, 08:12 PM

I recently sold my last "light" 357 handgun - my 60-15. Scary difficult to fire a 357 in it. My only 357 is my Ruger GP100, and I may never fire 357 in it, but I still have nearly a box full of Hornady 158gr XTP 357 magnums available for it. It likes my factory 38 SWCHP +P's, and my home loads of SWCHP's, WC's and SWC's. I turn 73 in a few weeks. I leave magnums to the younglings who still have the hand strength. In the meanwhile, 45 Colt, 44 spl, 45 ACP in a 1911 are the big guns I can still enjoy.

Cal44 · #86 08-30-2023, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CH4

All the above.
I also like Speer Gold Dot 135 gr short barrel 357 or 38 +p.

I like the 357 version of this load.

A bit more powerful than the 38+p, but not as painful as the barn burners.

Sort of a 357 -p

ArchAngelCD · #87 08-31-2023, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CH4

That’s for sure!
However, I just scored 6 50 rd boxes of Speer GDHP 135 gr 38 +p short barrel for about $15 a box at local pawn shop. Still smiling

It's obviously the broker had no idea what he had. The usual price is about $29/20 rounds. (if you can find them) You did amazingly well.

BabaBlueJay · #88 08-31-2023, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum_PI

I personally always carry heavier weight rounds (i.e. 357s are 158 grain preference, 38s 135 to 158 for defense and 158 for target shooting).

I recently tried out some Hornady Critical Defense 125 grain because it was what I could pick up for now, and was very disappointed in the accuracy and will not personally go that route in the future.

I don't currently have a "favorite" since I am getting back into 357s but am looking to settle on one for my 4 inch L Frame in the near future.

In my 640 Pro, I just carry 38+P and am perfectly happy and feel secure with that choice.

Something I'd be interested in trying (if it can be found in the future, as I can tell, it's not yet out) is the Federal 357 HST round.

I had used HST 147s in my 9mms and found them to be VERY accurate, and the ballistics testing I had seen were VERY GOOD.

I have a preference to Federal and PMC ammo in general.

Buy Personal Defense HST .357 Magnum P357HST1S for USD 44.99 | Federal Ammunition

I tend to like heavier bullets as well. When I had a SIG P365 I used the Federal HST which was 147 grains, and now that I have my old 686 back I settled on the 145 grain silvertip. I know the 125 grain bullet has the track record to earn its reputation as a man-stopper, but I am more comfortable with the 145 grain that has a little less kick for better follow-up shots.

BabaBlueJay · #89 09-04-2023, 02:05 PM

357 magnum defensive ammo-pxl_20230904_132549863-jpg

Did the milk jug test, and again the performance was excellent. The expansion on these is the most consistent I've seen in any hollow. It dumped most of its energy in the first two milk jugs before entering the third and falling out on the table. Just incredible consistency in performance. Can't say enough good things about this round in terms of reliability, expansion, accuracy, low flash, and low recoil for quick follow-ups. Easily the best 357 hollow I've tested and my silver bullet for life. Just going to continue to buy out the stock whenever it's available so I have a massive stash of this stuff because it's just the best.

roo_ster · #90 09-26-2023, 11:46 AM

I didn't have time to read all all repsonses, but here goes anyway.

1. ANY of those premium & boutique HP loads will do the trick in a 4" bbl SW686 .357mag. Not a bad choice among them. Find one that your gun likes, is available, and you can get enough for a price you can tolerate.

2. Thing is, you don't NEED premium or boutique loads in .357mag for it to be hella effective.

3. ANY old school cup & core .357mag 125gr or 158gr JHP/SJHP from any of the bigs (Fed, Rem, Win) will perform, 4" bbl or 2" bbl. They will generally ace the FBI protocol bare or clothed. You might get something else from a premium load, but none of them exceed the old 125/158gr (S)JHP loads on target. The old school 125/158gr ammo is also cheaper and can be more easily bought in bulk.

4. .357mag, when loaded like .357mag or near'bout, has enough velocity to not need a premium pill like lesser cartridges moving at lesser velocities.

5. I am partial to 158gr, as most my .357mag shoot it better than 125gr.

6. SW686 4" bbl is good-to-go for full magnum loads. It has mass enough to soak up recoil. It is my favorite revolver shooting any .38spl or .357mag and my wife's when loaded with .38spl 148gr HBWC.

Good luck & good shooting.