Just wound the bear and let someone else deal with it later.
Sounds ethical.

Probably the most important thing is coming to understand the objectives of the late Elmer Keith.
1 bullet and one load that did everything well enough.
That's what you want here.
No whizzbang gadgets.
The most honest chunk of lead you can sling.

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it just needs more voltage

I’m not an expert by any means but I carry a 44 in the woods. Hottest round I can shoot accurately regularly in a package I’m physical comfortable toting around.

I’ve been curious about a 460 but if I’m hunting I’ll have a long gun on me most of the time and if I’m doing anything else honestly that weight is just too heavy to not be annoyed by. Either way it’s a precautionary measure for a highly unlikely event. Something is better than nothing and to me 44 isn’t that much more annoying to shoot or carry than a 357 so I figured I might as well step up to the 44 when there’s not really a downside (out in the woods at least) and potential benefits.

Stop the bickering right now. We are supposed to be adults here on this forum. I'm tired of having to close threads because of a few.

One and only warning, stop it...

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

vipermd, I have not hunted bear in about five years and the warning about the .44 was about 3-4 years before that. I normally used a 30-06 or a 45-70 as my "bear gun" and never had to use my back up gun. I know that the wildlife police were pretty adamant about their rules and regulations. It could also be that the outfitter did not want to create any controversy with them. You had to have your primary gun unloaded at the end of legal shooting time. My primary use for the back up gun would have been for moose or two legged predators with the bears being at most third place in the danger mode.

Duly noted, I was out of line on this one. People can carry whatever they like.


@Autonomous I am sorry for being a jerk.

I was wrong in this thread in every way, so I'll bow out.

Thank you, we're good.

If I’m fooling round in the toolies where blackies are present I’ll have either my 3” model 60 loaded with hard cast or a 4.25 model 69, also with hard cast. Having a close encounter with a large predator miles from anywhere is an “interesting” experience. I’ve never had to shoot one but I was darn glad I had that 60 with me when the rifle I was carrying at the time (squirrels) was a .32 Tn Mtn flinter throwing a .310 patched round ball over 12 grains of FFFg. At that moment that old 60 was worth $$$$$😊

I only have knowledge in Ontario & Quebec but a lot of Blacks are whacked grave yard dead with 22s. Multiple hits with 308 from a stand and have to finish it with a couple 44s? Me thinks nothing important was hit. It’s same as the gobbling over deer guns. You have to put a decent shot on the quarry, no matter what you use.
The big game was shot to extinction in the east with muzzle loaders of 40cal or less. Those big bores didn’t show up until people were far enough west to encounter Grizzly, Buffalo and Elk.

The big argument in northern New Mexico where the biggest bear and elk live was 150 grain or 170 grain trienta y trienta (30-30) 'shells.' The 170s got the most agreement amongst the most successful local hunters.

I'd also go with buffalo bore.

A long time ago I thought I wanted to hunt a grizzly bear with a handgun. I owned a 4" M29-2 and loaded it with a 255 grains cast SWC over 2400 powder. World's Record at the time was a 660 lbs grizzly at 70 yards with one shot. Called an outfitter to get the cost and he asked just how good a shot I was. He then told me to practice hitting a 9" paper plate at 100 yards with all six shots as fast as I could, then to call him back. I got to where I could do that regularly in about 10 seconds. Then life and family got in the way of hunting for the grizzly and I never did. Now for a sidearm when in the woods I carry a 10MM Auto or a 610 revolver. Nothing here in Florida that the 10MM won't stop.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I’m a Master Maine Guide as well as an examiner on the Maine Guide Oral Exam Board. Maine has no laws restricting what you carry/use for a side arm. The only restriction I know of is caliber - nothing smaller than a .22 magnum for deer/bear.
Additionally Maine is a Permitted/Constitutional carry state so anyone legally entitled to own a gun can carry most everywhere.The usual restrictions at schools, hospitals etc. apply.
When my son and I bird hunt in northern Maine in the fall, I carry a custom 3 1/2” .44 Special built from a Model 27 loaded with “ Skeeters”.

Had a Tlinglit friend in Alaska. I considered him a bit looney...but he was more worried about Blacks that made actual charges. His words...if a big Blackie comes after you he will kill you and eat you. Grizzlies very seldom eat people...or so he said...but he lived with both. I gave him a rifle in the 70s He asked for a 243. Only bears I shot was a grizz with a 41 mag(40 ft of pucker) and the other was shot with the same 41 and 2 rounds of 375 H&H. Never shot a blackie...never wanted to shoot the grizzlies either but it was my job. wounded critters. I understand that the Black bears back east in Pa and New york get BIG. 357 minimum

Well, I did have to shoot a black bear up close and personal. I was using a 6" Ruger Security Six and handloaded 173 grain hard cast Keith SWC's. I had to crawl in a bear den after a wounded black bear. First attempts made it clear there was not enough room for a rifle, so I used my revolver. Getting tighter, I had my shooting arm outstretched. Dark as a coal miners lunch box, I felt the bear before I saw it. Having no idea which end was which, I started shooting till I had but 1 round left. Soon the only breathing I heard was my own. I believe the above story is proof my mama's baby boy wasn't her smartest.

Agree 100%. Hunting bear generally means trying to leave the skull intact, and make a reasonably rapid "kill" or stop with a body shot, hence the historical use of large rifle calibers delivering kinetic energy in the 5 kilojoule range, with shots generally taken at distance.
A defensive shoot, by definition means the bear is coming toward you, generally presenting a full on face shot and that is the correct point of aim. A .357 magnum with sufficient barrel to push a 180 grain Flat-nose, or SWC hardcast at 1,350+fps will reach the true magnum threshold of 1 kilojoule and 1,300fps. and will crush through the bear's sinuses, and shatter the skull, and pass on into the bear's body where it can strike great vessels, the heart, lungs etc.
Anyone who lacks the suds to stand firm, aim accurately and make the hit with six chances in the wheel and the bear's face a generously sized target, should probably forget carrying a gun and just get a good pair of Nike Air running shoes and bet on outrunning their companions.

Contrary to so many comments and opinions about what it takes to stop a bear there is no such thing as "too much power," when facing an animal that can rip your intestines out and begin wolfing them down even as you're still alive and screaming - or trying too! The point is, while a .22LR "can do it," and a 9mm "has done it," and maybe even a sharp stick has succeeded, carrying small and medium bore calibers in known bear country is not recommended. A .44 magnum with at least 4 inches of barrel, shooting a blunt nose 245 grain gas-checked hardcast at 1,400 fps generates over 1.5 kilojoules and will plant a charging bear in his/her tracks if the shooter puts the bullet right through the nose.

Naturally, revolver guys (I'm a revolver guy) like to carry revolvers, but in 2023 a better turn-key choice is a Glock 20 (4.6" bbl) with 16 rounds of 180-200 grain hardcast on tap. 1,250 fps with a 200 grain slug gets just shy of 700 fpe, or 941 joules - not quite to the TMP floor, but that's offset by having 16 rounds of force multiplication. Extremely lightweight, superior ergonomics to a revolver with faster recovery and of course, the ability to drop an empty mag and snap in a fresh one - one holding 26 rounds if so desired!

Less turn-key and more pricey is a quality 1911 converted to .460 Rowland complete with V2 recoil damper fed by CMC Powermags - 10+1 rounds of 255 grain hard case at 1,300 fps / 957 fpe (1.3 KJ), that very closely approximates the power of a .44 revolver with almost twice as many shots on tap, in a lightweight frame (by magnum standards) with excellent trigger, ergonomics, and far, FAR less brute recoil, combined with much faster reloads should that be required.

My Father and Grandfather were in Canada fishing and doing some hunting almost to the Hudson Bay with a Guide. They made camp and fixed dinner. My Father was taking the leftovers and trash out to deposit it where it was a bit away from the camp site to keep the critters away. Dad had his rifle and it was dark (using a flashlight) when he went to the dump sight. He heard a growl close by and dropped the trash and pulled his rifle off his shoulder. Heard the growl again so he fired a round in the direction of the growl. Was not expecting to hit anything, just to scare it. He heard an Ommph and knew he had hit it. He beat feet back to the camp and all three stayed up all night with their guns at hand. At first light they went down the trail to where the trash was, Dad pointed in the direction that he had fired. The got on line and stepped off to search for the wounded animal. They figured it was a bear. About 50 yards in they found the bear dead. The best part is that the bear was caught in a trap and could not have gotten to them, even if alive. Skinned the bear and my Dad had it made into a rug with the head on it. I use to lay on the floor on the bearskin rug with my chin on the bears head. My parents got divorced and I have no idea what he did with the rug......wish I had it!

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Based on information compiled over the past several years by ammoland, it seems pretty conclusive that contrary to popular belief, Bears are not in fact four-legged Sherman Tanks that can only be dropped by a .50BMG APIT round, but rather creatures of flesh and blood which can and have been killed by literally every cartridge on the market including .22LR.

So yeah, unfortunately campfire stories about the Bald-headed Bear of Claire County just don't hold up in the information age. You don't need a .500 Magnum Revolver or .338 Lapua Magnum Rifle to drop a bear, you can do it with whatever you might have handy.

Granted, "can" and "will assuredly" are two completely different things and a more powerful cartridge is more likely to succeed, so definitely carry the most powerful thing that you can use proficiently, but other than that, you're probably fine.

.357 Magnum is obviously a powerful and very capable cartridge which if loaded with solid, non-expandind bullets most certainly has the necessary energy as well as sectional density to penetrate a Bear's skull and shut it down.

If all else fails, you could always just stay out of Bear Country, then your likelihood of ever having to shoot a Bear will decrease dramatically.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Back a few years a good friend got “ transferred” to Alaska( he wanted to go). We talked about a big hunt so I bought a very nice Ruger no 1 in 375 H&H, already had Ruger BH 45 Colt with some “ special bear loads” so thought I was set. Well had to get hip replaced and shoulders started hurting and found “ arthur” was in both. So, grandson got the Ruger no. 1 but I kept the BH 45 Colt. I’m with AJ about the 10 mm and have one every time I go out as here in Fl. a 10 will take care of anything 2 or 4 legged.

Just an average Alaska dude here. I've spent time around brown bears, black bears and polar bears. Never had to pull the trigger on one, but I've come VERY close.

I'm not a super hunter. Fill the freezer with moose or caribou, then get back to regular life.

My thoughts are that at an approaching angle, the headshots not in your favor. This us primarily due to geometry. I've shot a caribou cow with a .308 at 70 yards or so and had it not penetrate. Cracked the skull open pretty as a picture, but the bullet deflected. I think headshots on a moving bear would be much the same, in addition to being near impossible to hit.

If it got on top of you, and you could get a more direct angle, I think it'd be just fine. I fact, I think this is a place where a short barreled pistol may shine over a bear howitzer rifle. OC is far more effective than us gun geeks like to admit. My job exposes me to OC alot. It ain't a joke. Not saying it's a substitute for a firearm, but it is a nice accessory. Easy for less experienced people to use, not as much legal red tape to navigate if you use it, and if you consider a use of intermediate force in the animal kingdom it could end an incident before it escalates to deadly force.

I'm pretty comfortable with .357 in country where the black bear and meth monkeys are known to roam. When going where the big bear are I do prefer a caliber that starts with "4". I've seen black bear plenty dead from .357. More power isn't always more better.The buddy who shot it just knew it was a semi jacketed hollow point. Didn't even know what bullet weight.

Some people describe black bear meat as greasy. I like to think of it as "juicy". As long as it's not some nasty river side salmon bear. Yech!

Unless I missed not I'm still not sure if the OP is asking about hunting bears or protection from bears.

Ed, talk to us. You haven't made a followup post in 4 pages and 18 days...

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Regarding black bears, my only familiarity with them is from an earlier time when I hunted deer in West Virginia. I never personally saw one, but they were fairly common there, mainly in the eastern part of the state. They had a reputation for docility, almost tameness, and usually avoided contact with humans and attacks are rare.The advice to hunters then was if you happened to cross paths with a black bear, generally yelling and flailing your arms was enough to scare them off. Maybe they were a different species of black bear.

EVERY black bear I have seen here in Wy/Mt area hasn't hesitated to get the H away from me(Bad Breath?). They are tremendously spooky. However,Every grizzly I have seen just haven't had any fear of human encounters. I prefer to stay a couple hundred yards or more away from them. I've only seen about 8 blacks...a dozen grizzlies. I did see a grizzly/black bear encounter up on the mountain one morning. When the blackie spied the grizzly at about 60-70 yards he was GONE. Right away! The grizz was larger though

Break down a shoulder. Check what the angle is to you on the skull of a charging bear. Can you wait until it is close enough that that angle is negated? I agree with up the snout and through the mouth to the spinal stem, but the snout on a bear with his head down is not going to get the brain.

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Front sight and squeeze

Black bears aren't stupid. When the big boy on the block is around it's best to keep your distance. A full grown grizzly is not something anyone and anything want to mess with.

I might be wrong but aren't they the apex predator with no equal? (other than man with a gun)

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Googled it! The Lion.........is Number 1. Apex predator - Wikipedia

But if any of the apex predators are after you.........at that particular moment in time it is that one!

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Really now. When was the last time you've seen or heard of an African Lion in North America? Really??

I thought it was obvious I was speaking about North America where the Grizzly Bear lives.

In reality, while the African Lion is the apex predator on his continent I'm not even sure a lion could take a fully grown 900+ lb Kodiak Bear or a 700+lb North American Grizzly. But since they don't live on the same continent with an ocean between them, we will probably never know.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Black bear , brown bear ,white bear : 44 MAGNUM 240 grain hollow point.
END of STORY

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V/r,
Markham

This is interesting reading. Apex Predators: The World's Top Predator Species⚠️ and this: List of deadliest animals to humans - Wikipedia

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

If I wanted bear medicine out of a 357 Mag I would load up some Keith 173 gr. LSWC's made out of Lyman #2 and load them over 13.5 grains of 2400 in 38 Special cases or 14.5 gr in Magnum cases.

Those will do a bang up job on a blackie out to probably 100 yards.

Will it stop one charging? Probably. But I'd rather have a big bore.

I use 14.4 of 2400 with a 158 grain bullet, so I guess I am in the ball park....

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

That'll get his attention too. Just a little more sectional density with the Keith slug. Might have to run it in Special cases though because it's so long!

"Last Cartridge" reminds us of the stiff arm. Also reminds us we have already used the rest of our ammo, so this one must work. Know they show a griz.

Only way I'd shoot a black bear would be if it was wounded, or if I was starving.

I am using a 158 grain SWC in my cases, both ,38 Special and .357 Magnum. No problem with them being to long.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I have a cabin in northern WI. with a very healthy bear population. Never had a problem with any of them. Mostly it's you go one way they go the other. Spring time is different, after a long winter and they're hungry be careful when foods around. I used to carry a 44 but last couple years I've gone to a 10mm. A Tanfoglio that hold 14 rounds. The 14 rounds is what changed my mind and the 10mm being very capable.

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Just remember there are “bears” and then their are “BEARS”. A small black bear can certainly be engaged pretty effectively with a decent .357. A big blackie or even more so a Grizzly, Brownie or other big bear is a whole different critter. For those fellas there is no such thing as “too powerful”. A .44 Mag would be a minimum for them (and I’d be a lot happier with a 12 gauge with slugs&#128563

Well guys, I have never had an encounter with a bear or even seen one in the wild, but if I did this is what I would want.

OIPxj7disintegrationgun.jpg

My Grandson has this, but I think the battery pack is low.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I love these threads. I have never hunted bears but I had a weekend cabin in NE PA for 20 years that was loaded with black bears. One spring about ten of them came roaring out after hibernating under my porch. By and large they are not aggressive, but they are unpredictable. Females are very cub protective. The biologist for the US Park Service in the area was a friend and said never to get between a mama and her cubs. If well fed they tend to be completely harmless, but in the spring and very hungry after hibernation they are voracious and ornery. I don't know whether a particular caliber revolver will stop one, but you better have a heavy solid bullet in the mix because they are not built like a human or a deer. They have a thick pelt, gristle and muscle that will never be penetrated with a soft point or hollow point bullet. All the locals hunted with minimum .308 rifles or shotguns loaded with slugs. I'd probably carry a pump shotgun with slugs if I was worried about a bear.

I do a lot of hiking in National Parks and Forrest. I carry a revolver in .357 magnum or .45 Colt. Loaded with hard cast bullets. As with all ammo I shot a few different cartridge to see what shot the best.

Just this year south of Tucson a guy was sitting at a picnic table having coffee in the afternoon when he was ambushed by a black bear and killed. According to the news broadcast, I heard, the bear was killed by fish and game. It was a big healthy male and they had no idea why he attacked the guy. It seems blacks usually attack from ambush.

Here is something that would probably work.

Bear Medicine.jpg

.45/70?

My Sister just bought a .429AE Desert Eagle. Develops as much power out of the pistols as a .44 Magnum does in a carbine.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I’m surprised and disappointed no one mentioned just carrying a loaded picnic basket to just toss to any bear…..LOL

You can carry a .32 to protect yourself. When the bear charges, you shoot whoever is with you in the knee and run away. Then it is their problem.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

IIRC there was a joke story about shooting the guy next to you in the knee when a lion jumped out of the bushes??????. Something about the “ best” lion gun being a 25 ACP….

A variation on a theme!!

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

That AE DE AIN'T gonna develop ANY power,,
until YOU get the right ammo loaded up!!

.429 DE Ammo - Cheap Bulk Ammo For Sale

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

We live in black bear central, the Northern Pocono mountains. We see bears on our property regularly. Our local black bears can be a nuisance but are usually very shy when confronted by humans and dogs. Although once we had one attempt to approach us while we were sitting at a camp fire. Very unusual behavior, but the dogs chased him off.
To answer the question, my usual outdoors gun is a four inch .357 magnum with buffalo bore ammo or equivalent. The eastern black bear isn’t so tough or aggressive that I feel under gunned. Just my humble opinion.