32-20 Win reman ammo in a 102 yr old revolver?

Final Update on 32-20 Remanufactured ammo JHP bullet

To all who posted opinions and answers to my original post I thank you very much. I really like this Forum just because one gets "all sides" of opinions and answers to just about ANY question you post whether it is about Smith & Wesson, or other guns, gun smithing, or things completely unrelated!

I received some PM's and some very good answers about using/not using the Remanufactured ammo as noted from Wisconsin Cartridge Co.

I thought that $70.00 for 50 rounds was decent enough for me in todays world, so price wasn't the issue. The Jacketed Hollow Point was an issue for me in a 102 year old gun.

I phoned to Wisconsin Cartridge Co. yesterday and discussed this exact ammo with I believe, the Owner. A very nice gentleman, and yes..it is remanufactured (commercially reloaded as others have posted) to Sammi specs and QC checked before shipment. With the above established, the gentleman told me this would NOT be good for my old 32-20 because the jacketed bullet could be very hard on the rifling of the old barrel. I decided to not buy this ammo, which leaves Wisconsin Cartridge Co with 88 boxes in stock for those of you that may use this in rifles or whatever. At the very least it is a real company, with real people who answer the phone, and states very plainly that they do not ship with UPS due to theft, and use Fed-Ex ground only. I have no commercial interest in this company, just relaying my experience because of all the scammers out there, particularly with this caliber.

I realize that to use or not use this ammo is my decision alone, and again...I thank you all for your opinions and comments.

I've decided that I am now doing some research and starting a learning curve on reloading. I'll be hanging out a little more often on the reloading sub-forum checking things out on equipment and knowledge, and probably (most likely) asking the same dumb noobie questions I did here when just starting to learn about S&W revos.

I just took delivery of 200 rounds American Eagle (Federal) 30-06 rifle ammo, specifically made for (and labelled) the M1 Garand from CMP. Sure it was costly, but I'm sure it won't be going cheaper in the future and I want to shoot the old girl so another reason to start seriously looking at reloading.

Thanks all...it is a pleasure to work with you folks on this Forum!!!

cmansguns said:

T

II realize that to use or not use this ammo is my decision alone, and again...I thank you all for your opinions and comments.

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$70 for a box of 32 WCF brass is a great price today. I have two Colt and one S&W revolver that shoot 32 WCF. If I did not trust this ammo I would buy it and pull all 50 bullets, something I have done many times in the past with gun show reloads. If you are going to reload for this caliber in the future you are going to need brass. There is no other source that I know of.

Brooks said:

I would not buy that ammo, and here is my opinion:
Those reloads are advertised under their rifle ammo links on their website.
32-20 standard load for a rifle would be about 1200 fps with a 115 lead bullet. They are claiming 900 fps with a 100 JHP. This is a problem.

You need to slug your bore. S&W 32-20 HE are typically oversized bores....mine is .314 And these JHP 100gr bullets most likely are .311-.312. They will not bump up on that light charge. You will have stuck bullet in the barrel. As a general rule, please do not shoot jacketed bullets in these revolvers.

32-20 is a rifle cartridge... any claimed FPS, FPE by a manufacture should reflect use in a rifle.
Their 900fps with a 100 gr JHP appears to me as a really low charge, guaranteed to get stuck in your barrel.

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I disagree, and what does "bump up" mean, obturate?

About 15 years ago I bought a 1907 Winchester.351 SLR. I always liked these guns for the same reason I like 1897 Winchesters and old S&W and Colt revolvers. As we all know .351 SLR ammunition is not easy to find. I friend of mine with a 1907 bought some of the last of Winchesters final run from the 1980s. He offered me a box of 50 for $50. So for a dollar a round I had start up brass. I have added a few hounded cases mas from .357 max. Bullets are 180 gr plated round nose. Data is from an ancient Lyman Book for 4227 or 2400. I have 300 rounds of this caliber waiting for the next time I want to take it to the range. Or maybe if I find another one and want to shoot it right away. The only real problem now is that the 1907 kicks the brass out in all directions so I have to be careful not to loose any.

I am not knocking the custom loaded stuff. However now that the price of a set of Redding dies and reloadable brass has been written off this is now a economical gun to shoot.

About 'bump-up', I took this to mean swell and seal the barrel, as some undersize lead bullets do.

ralph7 said:

I disagree, and what does "bump up" mean, obturate?

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OK....my opinion... and I error on the side of safety;
32WCF is a rifle cartridge!! If the ammo manufacture publishes a certain FPS or FPE without providing the barrel length, then you must assume that data is from a rifle barrel.
Winchester publishes FPS and FPE on their box, without saying if from a rifle or a revolver, so is safe to say that is rifle data.
Black Hills ammo publishes their 32WCF load and they tell you it's from a 5.5 inch test barrel.
The manufacture linked does not tell you from a rifle or a revolver, so you have to assume it is rifle data... which would be a very low charge. 900 FPS from a revolver would be a standard load.... but they do not say. Remington used to manufacture 32WCF with a 100gr jacketed soft point but they stopped doing it. Jacketed bullets are not good in these revolvers.

Brooks said:

OK....my opinion... and I error on the side of safety;
32WCF is a rifle cartridge!!

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You may need a little educating. 32 WCF was introduced as a rifle cartridge by Winchester. Around 1885 Colt started chambering their SAA for the cartridge. By 1892 Winchester started making a much stronger rifle in 32 WCF. In response the ammunition makers started loading a RIFLE ONLY version of the 32 WCF.

Any RIFLE ONLY ammunition will be labeled as such if the manufacturer follows SAAMI rules.

Smith and Wesson first chambered their Revolvers for 32 WCF in 1899. I own one and it is a fine piece to shoot. Revolvers are shot with revolver only loads in 32 WCF and many other cartridges.

I reload lots of cartridges for 32 WCF since I own three revolvers that use that caliber. I started with three boxes of factory cartridges, all of which use a jacketed soft point and all of which are perfectly suited to revolvers. That's how I got all my brass - I have no reason to believe any cartridge at 900 FPS would cause any damage what so ever.

Brooks said:

OK....my opinion... and I error on the side of safety;
32WCF is a rifle cartridge!! If the ammo manufacture publishes a certain FPS or FPE without providing the barrel length, then you must assume that data is from a rifle barrel.
Winchester publishes FPS and FPE on their box, without saying if from a rifle or a revolver, so is safe to say that is rifle data.
Black Hills ammo publishes their 32WCF load and they tell you it's from a 5.5 inch test barrel.
The manufacture linked does not tell you from a rifle or a revolver, so you have to assume it is rifle data... which would be a very low charge. 900 FPS from a revolver would be a standard load.... but they do not say. Remington used to manufacture 32WCF with a 100gr jacketed soft point but they stopped doing it. Jacketed bullets are not good in these revolvers.

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You see, I'm not the only one suggesting this ammo. I made the same suggestion in Post #20. I agree with the above, that round will be very safe in your gun and not over stress the barrel.

cmansguns said:

I phoned to Wisconsin Cartridge Co. yesterday and discussed this exact ammo with I believe, the Owner. A very nice gentleman, and yes..it is remanufactured (commercially reloaded as others have posted) to Sammi specs and QC checked before shipment. With the above established, the gentleman told me this would NOT be good for my old 32-20 because the jacketed bullet could be very hard on the rifling of the old barrel.

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Thank you for the follow-up. It's great to hear about a company that is straightforward and honest in their customer service.

Welcome to the world of handloading. I'm sure many of us will be happy to offer any help you want!

I think what we have here is "Failure To Communicate"

My concern is not that this Wisconsin reloaded 32-20 is too powerful for the S&W HE. My concern is that it is undercharged.
Wisconsin lists this load under their rifle ammo.....900 FPS with a 100gr JHP. THIS IS UNDERCHARGED. IF you shot this out of a pistol it would be 600 FPS and a .311-.312 JHP would likely get stuck in barrel that is .314.
When you look for Wisconsin pistol reloads, it comes up with the rifle listing.. again at 900FPS. WHICH IS IT?
900 FPS in a rifle?
or
900 FPS in a pistol?
With out printed data... ?

Brooks said:

I think what we have here is "Failure To Communicate"

My concern is not that this Wisconsin reloaded 32-20 is too powerful for the S&W HE. My concern is that it is undercharged.
Wisconsin lists this load under their rifle ammo.....900 FPS with a 100gr JHP. THIS IS UNDERCHARGED. IF you shot this out of a pistol it would be 600 FPS and a .311-.312 JHP would likely get stuck in barrel that is .314.
When you look for Wisconsin pistol reloads, it comes up with the rifle listing.. again at 900FPS. WHICH IS IT?
900 FPS in a rifle?
or
900 FPS in a pistol?
With out printed data... ?

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@Brooks, calm down.
If you look on that site that same load is listed under the handgun ammo too. Without calling or writing them you can't be sure if they tested the ammo in a long barrel or a shorted handgun barrel. You can't make assumptions without fact so please relax.

32-20 ammo

The last box I sold...cheap...was the older white box Winchester. It had 115 gr jacketed HPs. Supposedly at 920 FPS(revolvers) and it was marked for revolvers or rifles. I still have a couple boxes of Win 115 gr lead marked for both rifle and handguns. Same white box era ammo. I have shot both in my 1908 shipped S&W with adjustable sights. Does about 960 fps out of it. Going to sell that one as I have a mid 20's 32-20 S&W also...and a Buckeye Ruger BH Combo 32H&R/32-20.

Hey Skeet,

I don't know about the older 32-20's, but that Ruger Buckeye is built like a tank. I can't imagine what it would take to wound it. However, trying to find any 32-20 ammo is tough. The shortage is real when you see $2.25 each on gunbroker (gougers selling water to thirsty folks in the desert) and nothing at Starline. They will not even take backorders, which is rare for me to see at Starline.

I was just teased over on SingleActions forum about saying that Starline wouldn't be producing any 32-20 brass for quite a while. It was hinted at, by a supposed insider, that Starline may be quicker than I think. A hundred folks have left ratings with comments about wanting .25-20 and .218 Bee for forming their own calibers from the 32-20. There must be hundreds that didn't leave comments.

There seems to be a GINORMOUS backlog of demand for that 32-20 brass by more than just 32-20 afficionados.
I've allowed myself to hope for the best, and plan for the worst.

I am damn careful about reloading what little 32-20 brass I have left, because if your powder measurer misses just a tiny bit, that bottle-neck brass can crush easily. A little tricky, but just be careful. I spend around $.10 a handload, but that's using original prices on my components. New components might go to $.33 each cartridge. Primers $.10 + new Brass $.30 + Powder $.03.
I wouldn't blame Starline at all for raising prices on 32-20. It's not their high return compared to other calibers. I paid around $.25 as I recall, but $.30 and up seems more likely. But you can never tell about that family-run business like Starline. Those are some phenomenally nice folks.

So I'm perusing threads like this and going back to 32 S&W long trying to decide what level of ammo can I shoot in my old 32's.
I strongly suggest that any handloaders stock up on all their .32 brass.
Starline 327federal magnum is sold out and is NOT taking backorders. 32 S&W short is sold out, but will take backorders.


Prescut

FYI,


K frame 32-20 heat treating began in 1919 at approximate serial number 81,287. Check your serial in relation to that.

Regarding jacketed ammunition in old barrels. Many get concerned because they feel it is hard on rifling. Steels jackets certainly are. Brass jackets or gilding metal are softer than steel. Harder than lead, certainly, but still softer than the steel used by S&W for the barrel.

One box may accelerate wear but I do not believe it will make your revolver a smooth bore.

Others may or may not agree.

Kevin

Well the buyer of that box of ammo I sold wasn 't worried. He had a 1900 or so SAA he was shooting it in. John Linebaugh. He knew a little
E about bbls...I think. He even told me that it wasn't likely to hurt any 32-20 with factory ammo made since the 1920s. He wanted more of my brass too.I bought a 100 Starline at the same show...new. But the seller had it for a while. I am lucky to have about 500 pieces and get rid of none. And that Ruger has a heck of a cylinder on it...same with the 32 HR mag

Sure miss John.....what a grand gentleman. Would visit with him at Shiptons downtown store in Billings on Wednesday afternoons.

Quite a crew of educated gun enthusiasts. With his passing I am not sure that crew still meets.

Randy

growr said:

Quite a crew of educated gun enthusiasts. With his passing I am not sure that crew still meets.

Randy

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Still a few left. I used to get a Blackhawk or super he could use. He liked the Bisley better.

1sailor said:

Just out of curiosity I checked out the link in post #3 for the "remanufactured" ammo. I need to ask, is 32-20 ammo really selling for $70 for a box of 50! Is that a good price? Especially for reloads.

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It's 2023 . In the best of times .32-20 is a niche ctg nowadays .The ammo industry still hasn't normalized since most recent ammo panic , and probably won't before the next panic starts next year , so low sales volume calibers are still scarce .

Black Hills has list price of $50 , bit I'd be surprised if they actually turned any out since 2020 .

So no , right now $ 70 isn't outrageous for non popular ammo that physical exists that you can purchase.

I believe that the ammo company owner said that , but I would take that with a grain of salt

He could have just heard " older S&W " and given a generic recomendation .. Notwithstanding my liking of cast bullets , I wouldn't be unduly concerned with jacketed bullets in a K frame of that vintage , .38 or .32

Yes , introduced in Win M73 in 1882 . Heck , I have a cpl Savage 23 in .32-20 . But I have little doubt that since 1900s ( decade) that more revolvers made in .32-20 than rifles ." Rifle Only:" factory ammo hasn't been mfg since WWII .It's been a defacto pistol ammo for 50 plus years.

SAAMI pressure is 16K CUP , very mild for a heat treated K frame .

Worst case - a .312 jhp would have less accuracy than a .314 cast bullet , but you'd have to shoot it to know if accuracy is acceptable.

I shoot my cast reloads in mine all the time. Got some factory stuff(NOT HV)...........Some post really knots up people's shorts