I was watching Autumn and her Armory today, she was loving a .45 Colt 1911 and shot Federal Hydra Shoks into targets included several soda bottles. The third one stopped it and when she pulled it out it looked like a button mushroom. That sucker was HUGE!. I don't think they got around to measuring it but I'd sure like to know what the result was.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

We used to call them flying ashtrays back in the day.

Killed a running buck with my 1911 loaded with 45 HS's......Went in left shoulder.......Pass through.....Nicked right leg on way out......20 feet sideways running shot in a cutdown......Bang----Flop.

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S&W Accumulator

Those were considered a very good anti-personnel round.

The Hydra-Shok was NOT the flying ashtray, that was the 200 gr Speer JHP load, which would not feed in most unmodified Colt 1911s.

The Hydra-Shok 230 gr load was the standard LAPD SWAT and SIS load until about 2000 give or take, when it was phased out in favor of the Winchester Ranger 230 gr load.

mscampbell2734 is correct. The flying ashtray/flying ashcan was the old Speer 200 grain JHP. It had an absolutely massive, gaping maw of a hollow cavity. It's short, blunt profile also made it a nearly guaranteed feed ramp jam in a Model 1911 that had the old style barrel feed ramp that was designed for ball ammo.
The Hydra Shok developed a little bit of a spotty reputation for the cavity plugging around the central post and then acting more like a FMJ, which is why we now have the HST design. Federal's HST, the Speer Gold Dot, and the Winchester Ranger T are all better bullet designs than the old Hydra Shok.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

I have some of the Speer and have them in full moons for my 625. Problem solved.

My Google-fu is working for me today. I found a picture of the original Speer Lawman 45ACP 200 grain JHP round.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

I carried the Federal Hydra Shok for years in .38 Spec, .357 Mag and .45 acp. They enjoyed a good rep at the time and were in use by law enforcement. Newer rounds have come along but the Hydra Shok is still in the lineup all these years later and there was also a 210 gr. .45 acp version. "I" would not hesitate to carry them... IIRC the original design came from Super Vel started by Lee Juras and I believe two other gentleman.

I have two boxes of the ashtrays Speer Part #4477
100 in box has a price tag on them $11.99 Bullets only)


Have no idea if I even paid that or when I bought them (would have been at my friends pawn/gun shop a long time ago.)
Don't know why I still have them or all the othersin that box of SD bullets

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Still Running Against the Wind

I still have some of those HS wonder-rounds - they pair nicely with this classic Smith & Wesson 645!

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

And, that 645, will feed’em, all day long.
👍👍

They were my carry .45 acp round prior to the HST line. And were a top "one shot stop" round back in the day (if you subscribe to such data).

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Watch & Pray

Just for reference. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

I still have several moon clips loaded with the 230 grain Hydra Shock ammunition. And somewhere I also have several hundred of the Speer 200 grain HP, not sure why except way back then, they probably looked “cool” to me.

Now, I am a believer in full wadcutter bullets at hardball velocity.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Most any .45 ACP round is a formidable defense round as long as you do your job and place it where it can do the most good.

The best .45 ACP bullets are only marginally better than others...the differences are basically more academic than practical.

The 11th Commandment..."They All Fall to Hardball". At least that's what I've heard.

There is also the fact that a 9x19mm may kill a man, but the 45 ACP will also kill his soul.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

.45 ACP...Because shooting twice is just silly.

dd they switch to the Ranger "talon" derivative? I have a 3" RIA in 45acp and need a carry round. I remember the 9mm 127 +P and +P+ Ranger rounds.

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NRA RSO

NMSP carried the 45 ACP Hydra Shock in 4506s and 4566s from '91-'92 until they switched to 357 Sig several years later. No one on either end complained about the performance.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Do you mean the SXT? If so yes.

It went Black Talon, Ranger T(alon), then SXT, I think.

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NRA RSO

Federal on the left and my all time favorite on the right. Cor Bon when only the best will do.

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Which is going to hurt more...a baseball at 1200 fps or a bowling ball at 850 fps?

Personally...I really don't want to be the test dummy for that answer. Both are gonna hurt.

Opening day of deer season November 94 I killed a 3pt buck with 38 spl 129 gr Hydra Shocks. Complete pass through giant exit hole at 20 yds…… now you may ask why would I shoot a deer with a 38. I was field dressing a deer when this small buck came limping by basically on 3 legs. I was crouched over and my slug gun was 10 ft away leaning against a tree. The 38 was on my hip. I used to hunt a State Park and it sounded like a war zone on opening day. Lots of bad shots and misses.

That is my only real reservation about hunting. Wounding and the animal suffering.

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NRA RSO

My answer is, "yes".

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

You can go to the Lucky Gunner Ballistics website, and it has all the key statistics like penetration and expansion. The Federal HST is one of the best loads, especially in .45 ACP.

The old Hydra Shock is a great load but the Federal HST will slightly out perform it these days. The HST (in 45ACP) consistently gives 15 -16 inches of penetration and comes out of the gel at .900 to an inch in diameter. The 9mm is giving the same penatration and coming out of the gel @ .700+ diameter.

The Speer Gold Dot 2 in 9mm , which is a bonded round is giving the same penetration but does not expand quite as big at .650 or so expansion. LAPD went the GD2 across the board a few years back and was so impressed, even the SIS guys are packing hi-cap 9's vs the old days when they carried two 1911s in .45acp. Federal has always made great defensive ammo.

Yeah, SXT stands for "Same exact thing" as Black Talon. They just changed the name and color.

Actually no, G2 in 9mm and 40 but stayed with HST for 45s

The Hydra Shok developed a little bit of a spotty reputation for the cavity plugging around the central post and then acting more like a FMJ, which is why we now have the HST design. Federal's HST, the Speer Gold Dot, and the Winchester Ranger T are all better bullet designs than the old Hydra Shok.[/QUOTE]

Our department was issued the Hydrashok from early mid 2000 to 2022. The early ammunition they gave us was the Hydrashok with the post. They said it was a “wonder bullet” and scads better than the Ball Ammo. I shot both into the same medium and of course one did not “mushroom” as expected and merely deformed the same as a ball ammo round.

The HSTwas better

Then we had to follow the trend and go back to the 9mm. But at least we get the Critical Duty 135 grain rounds. Hopefully they are better.

Luckygunner.com does a lot of testing using calibrated gel covered by denim. In their tests, the 230 grain standard pressure HST was quite uniform in expansion. The 165 grain and 185 grain +P Hydra Shok's were inconsistent and the 230 grain Hydra Shok showed virtually no expansion. The Hydra Shok was interesting, but still relied upon older jacket and core technology. It needed a lot of velocity in order to achieve expansion and you simply don't get that sort of velocity with the 230 grain 45 ACP.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

Despite more recent bullet designs, the hydra-shok is still fantastic (in any caliber). I’ve always been partial to the 230-gr Remington Golden Saber in .45ACP but would feel as adequately armed with a Hydra-Shok, HST, Gold Dot, etc…

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Some Might Say.

I have found over the years that some 1911's will not reliably feed certain hollow point ammo as they were never designed to do that. The 1911 was designed over half a century before hollow points were even available.

I so rarely (almost never - except sometimes when actually shooting it that day) carry a 1911 pistol. On that rare occasion, I will only carry 230 grain FMJ (Ball ammo) as all my 1911's are 100% reliable with it. Expansion is nice, but in the case of a 45 caliber bullet, expansion is less important than reliability. The 230 grain FMJ bullet is heavy enough and powerful enough that unlike lighter and smaller bullets doesn't need expansion to accomplish its job.

Great quote there!
But almost exactly 24 years ago on a quiet Sunday afternoon, the Federal HydraShok 9mm performed flawlessly for me against a felon who was high on heroin and cocaine and hell bent on not going back… that round (3x) on that day definitely fulfilled that quote.

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Stay Safe...
jd SWCA #3276

I believe that Ranger SXT pre-dates Ranger T.

Actually, the original flying ashtray was the Super Vel.

Pretty sure the Flying Ashtray is a Speer bullet. It could have first appeared in the Super Vel line I don't remember much from back then.

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S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

I’ve got an old box of the Speer Lawman “flying ashtray” here. I believe I recall Super Vel also had a load with that bullet, but I can’t physically confirm that from my end…

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Stay Safe...
jd SWCA #3276

"A 9mm sometimes fails to expand, but a .45 never shrinks."


That kid's pretty sharp.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Super Vel was the so called "Flying Ashtray" long before any of the others.
1970s I believe.

My current favorite...

.... at the start of the season down a dirt road by the woods in Western NC. A shot went off about every minute. Obviously people were shooting at anything that moved or possibly nothing at all. It didn't spoil my walk on a beautiful fall day, but it was a little disconcerting, to say the least.

I wonder why people don't go to the range all year long if all they want to do is 'hunt' by firing their guns off. I suppose there's a chance they might really flush out a deer that they could shoot at.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I realize that and my post was only referring to the 9mm. My comment in regard to the .45 was meant to indicate that many of the old die hard .45 acp guys were transitioning to 9mm due to the performance of the 9mm G2. I was involved in some of the meetings when the decision was made to go to G2. The HST is an outstanding round and generally stays together very well. It is, however, not a bonded round like the G2.