Just scored 500 rounds of .357 SIG 125 gr WWB at the local Shoot Straight, $195 out the door!

Wow, good deal. I just bought 500 on-line and the best price I found was $300 + shipping.

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6/23/2022

Great deal in today's market

357SIG is one of my favorite cartridges

I have been carrying my fullsize M&P 357 for about the last two weeks.

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"Acta non verba"

sadly, 357SIG is now just a dirty lil secret amongst people of discretion... but nice snag...

I don’t understand why this cartridge is playing dinosaur. It feeds perfectly with that small bottleneck. It nearly duplicates .357 Magnum ballistics. Case diameter is the same as .40 S&W. So is cartridge length. Any pistol that can handle .40 S&W can handle .357 SIG. In the 1990s, some law enforcement agencies adopted .357 SIG.

It is a little bit tricky to reload because of the very short neck and little surface on the bullet. The only time I ever developed a flinch was when I started carrying an H&K USP Compact in .357 SIG and did some serious training - it is LOUD.

I agree Tinman.. my Sig P250SC has quite a bark with the 357SIG barrel in... it's bite is much worse.... do not want to be on the receiving end of that one.

It's because it's not a very good subcompact or compact round, not much gained over 9mm with a lot more blast and flash. And too many loadings are really at 9mm+P power levels (probably for this reason) making it redundant.

With actual .357 SIG full power loads, it starts to shine out of a full sized gun and really gets going with a Glock 35 or 24 sized auto. My G35 style gun has a 5.85" barrel. I've been procrastinating on working up a 90gr high velocity load, but 1800fps should be within reach from this platform.

One of my "to-dos" is to get a 10mm 1911 and put a 9x25 Dillon barrel in there...2000fps should be no problem with light bullets like described above.

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Psalm 27:2

My 90 grain JHP leave my SIG P229 at just over 1700 FPS

2100+ FPS from the same handgun is very easy to achieve with the lightweight Total Copper Hollow Point

I have several thousand of these .355" nickel plated hollow points. They weigh in at 50 grains

I have not yet tinkered with developing a load, but a nice charge of Ramshot Silhouette should do the trick

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"Acta non verba"

Underwood, with the 65gr Lehigh Xtreme Defender is rated at 2,100 fps... With 90gr it is 1,700!

Cheers!

P.S. I have (in the past) reloaded their 65, 68, 90, 115 & 118gr .355" bullets in 357 SIG: there used to be much more Lehigh load data for this caliber... Never really felt the need to load them to Underwood's levels.

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Sit Reloader Sentiret

Probably the best Law Enforcement round ever marketed...

Only started shooting the round a few years ago when I bought a barrel for a G23. Since then I have added a barrel for the G35, G40 and Kimber Stainless Target II as well as getting a no longer made SIG 1911 Nightmare Carry.

Shot one of the SIG P229 Sport Models 25 years ago on a visit to SIG. Was very impressed but just no "need" for the gun at that time. Recently found one at a reasonable price and bought it...shoots like a laser with very little recoil due to the stainless frame and comp...

Sadly overlooked round...

Bob

Hitting 1700fps with the 68 grain Lehigh in a 3.5" 6904 in 9mm.

I think I hit 2100 or so with the same bullet in the 9x25 Dillon.

Didn't try in the 357 sig, couldn't get it to seat and crimp properly to where I felt it was going to stay put.

I did find that using the lehigh, it was best to not use a case mouth expander, just load directly after resizing.

Rosewood

Good score. I'm down to my last personal batch of 7k rounds.
We've been waiting on Winchester since 2018 for about 80k rounds (ordered 20k each year) and they have been unable to deliver.
Last year, I supplied work with 10k rounds from my personal stash expecting to be repaid by work. Well thanks to Winchester not being able to deliver, we canceled all our backordered 357 and switched to 9mm.

A P239 in .357sig was my retirement gun after carrying duty P226 in 9mm for around 14 years (they had replaced our issue model 65s which we were allowed to buy for $100).

Unless loadings have been substantially downloaded over the past few years, this information would appear to be demonstrably false, as I've seen ammo tests on YouTube out of a converted Glock 27 which were getting upwards of 1300fps and 550ft-lbs, which is well beyond the performance of any 9mm +P load I've ever seen.

Heck, just search "9mm +P vs .357 SIG" on YouTube and it will turn up a number of ammo tests in which .357 SIG consistently outperforms even 9mm +P+, regardless of barrel length.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

I have a factory 357 barrel for my P229 that’s way under utilized.guess I need to start using it.

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213th FBINA

If you do not already own a Lee Factory Crimp Die for the 357SIG you need to buy one

The FCD imparts a collet crimp to the cartridge and will make many projectiles viable that you would have previously passed on because of the poor neck tension caused by the 357SIG's short neck and the ogive of many projectiles originally intended for the 9MM Parabellum and 380ACP cartridges

The projectile does not need a crimp groove to use this style of crimp

The Lee Factory Crimp Die was a game changer for me

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"Acta non verba"

I hadn’t thought about losing the cartridge’s advantages in a short-barreled pistol. That makes sense.

It is not as great a loss as people expect.

Using the 125 grain Ranger SXT as an example, the projectile leaves my SIG X-5 Allround at 1,392 FPS while when fired from the short barreled SIG P239 the projectile only drops to 1,321 FPS. That is about a 5% drop in velocity with a 30% reduction in barrel length

That 1,321 FPS is still noticeably faster than a 124 grain 9MM+P Ranger SXT loading leaves the P239 (sorry I can not find my 9MM notes at the moment. Memory says it did not break 1,200)

This is pretty much the same argument that folks make when discussing the 357 Magnum and 38 Special from short barreled firearm. A faster cartridge is always faster no matter what the barrel length you are using

Chronographs

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"Acta non verba"

That is what I use. Works great with a truncated bullet or a XTP. Round nose bullets ain't worth a dang in a .357 Sig. Found Gold Dots don't crimp as well. And the Lehigh don't have enough bearing surface to get a good purchase on that short neck. Seems like to get a good crimp, the bullet has to be seated out too far on the 357 sig and it won't fit the magazine then.

Rosewood

I haven't tried shorter barrels, but in my P229 with the 3.9" barrel, I am hitting 1430 FPS with Longshot powder and a 124 grain XTP. Can't touch that with a 9mm.

Rosewood

Using Bluedot powder and a 124 XTP, seems like max load of BD is hitting just over 1200 FPS from the 3.5" 6904 and 3913 barrels. Heck of a muzzle flash though. Fastest load I have found in the 9mm with a 124 grain. Still can't touch the Sig though.

Rosewood

Well, they had more available. Looks like they got a load from a LE dept. that was clearing out old stock. Box was spanky new, specs show 1300fps and 500ft/lb energy. Store showed $19.99 per 50 rd box, buy the case of 500 rds and get extra 10% discount. Works for me!

.357 SIG is a criminally underrated round with a fair amount of misinformation surrounding it, the most common being that it's really no better than 9mm +P or +P+, but the reality is that as long as it's not being downloaded, it not only leaves 9mm +P+ in the dust, but will rival anything but the hottest .357 Magnum factory loads.

Does it lose velocity out of shorter barrels? Of course, but between your typical 3.5" and .4.5" barrel the amount of velocity lost is negligible at best, maybe 50fps on average.

Granted, I've heard rumors that factory loaded .357 SIG has been loaded a bit weaker over the years, but I'm not convinced that it's accurate when the closest thing to "proof" I've seen is cheapskates on YouTube shooting a single round across the chronograph in the dead of Winter and comparing it to the results of an older video which was filmed over the Summer a year or two earlier using a completely different chronograph.
Not to go off on a tangent here, bit it annoys me to no end when folks decide to cheap out on ammo tests by only shooting a round or two at most, then calling it good enough. Make it a proper 5-shot average or don't bother. It's like, I know .357 SIG ammo is expensive, but it ain't THAT expensive.

Last but not least, I'd hate to go there, but... There are folks online who carry 9mm yet are evidently extremely insecure about it, so they feel the need to reassure themselves that it's not only perfectly adequate for self-defense, (which it certainly is) but the absolute best round available and that everything else is somehow inferior. These are the folks who seem the most apt to push the narrative that .357 SIG is no more powerful/effective than 9mm, yet somehow inexplicably manages to produce harsher recoil, concussion, and report. So these folks will happily cherry-pick any bit of information they can to push their narrative and therefore they'll jump all over the cheapskate YouTube single round ammo tests with underwhelming results.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

I just picked up a whole bunch of these 124 gr. Montana Gold .355 JHP’s really cheap…less than $.09 each…I’m going to try them out in .357 Sig and see how they work. I’ve had good results with a 124 gr. lead .355 TC bullet that I powder coat and these have a very similar profile.

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USS Brewton FF1086
SWCA#3597

Well said!

I would suggest you compare those bullets side by side with the Hornady 124 (or 125) gr JHP bullets (XTP or HAP) or the SIG (Sierra) V-Crown 124 or 125 gr as far as bullet profile vs. length.

I'm pretty sure almost all 124-5 gr JHPs will work just fine with 357 SIG, but seeing how far the actual shoulder is from the base can avoid any serious concerns regarding OAL and proper crimping.

Please let us know: pehaps on the Reloading forum...?

Cheers!

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Sit Reloader Sentiret

I carried and shot a 357 Sig for about 12 years, Glock 32... it is better than 9mm in every way, except 1.... it is LOUD.

I'm carrying a 9 these days, but only because the M&P 2.0 isn't offered in 357 Sig.

When you start shooting through car doors and windshields, the 357 Sig leaves the wonder 9 in the dust, even 9mm +P+.... that extra 50 to 100 fps makes a difference on hard barrier penetration.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

Not surprised that stuff is loud running at ~40k psi. I do like the performance numbers, but I like my hearing too much to risk that as a self defense round.

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Release the Kraken

Just saw the prototype. Looks just like the 9mm 2" 686 PC except it has an all steel cylinder instead of titanium. It also has a 2.5" barrel ( similar length to their newest 19 2.5 carry comp).
Tried to give them money for the prototype because on this one I am all in.
Plan is to release at 2024 shot show. If this one doesn't get the .357 Sig guys (of which I am one) nothing will.

The Texas Rangers did have 357sig in their issue guns. I think they have changed because of cost but a lot of Rangers still use 357Sig in their personal weapons. That's good enough for me!!!

NC State Highway Patrol has carried .357 Sig for many years, but are now in the process of changing to 9MM. Their tests showed it performed in a superior manner through window/windshield glass and through car doors.

They are changing only because .357 Sig ammo is next to impossible to get.

On a side note about the S&W M&P. The NC SHP bought these guns in .357 Sig and they never could get them to "run." S&W bought them back and discontinued that caliber. Don't know why, just never worked.

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Bill

What I've always found peculiar about the M&P357 and the stories of how they just couldn't get them to run properly is that every civilian I've ever heard from who owned one or otherwise converted their M&P40 to .357 SIG reports that they've never had an issue with theirs.

So either civilians simply haven't shot their M&P357s (or converted M&P40s) enough for the issues to manifest, or otherwise their was simply user error involved with the police officers causing their M&P357s to malfunction (limp wristing, perhaps?) and when Smith & Wesson got them back finding no discernable issues they just decided to go ahead and discontinue the line due to low sales.

That being said, if anyone here owns an M&P357 (or converted M&P40) with a high round count, then I would be most interested in hearing their experiences, seeing as I've heard nothing but positive feedback from civilians who shoot .357 SIG out of their M&Ps, but then again, I've never heard from one who shot tens of thousands of rounds.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

My money would be on underpowered practice ammo being to blame.

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Release the Kraken

ALL of Texas DPS were issued 357SIG firearms for Many, Many years

That was my first exposure to the cartridge back around 94 just a few years before the SIG P226 and then the P229 were adopted as the issue guns. Probably 10 years later the SIG P239 was adopted for those that needed a more concealable firearm.

DPS goes through more than 2,000,000 rounds of ammunition annually for training and qualifications. The bean counters eventually won

Around 2012 DPS switched to the M&P in 9MM but those issued 357SIG firearms had the option to continue carrying that firearm. The SIG P320 in 9MM is the current issued DPS sidearm

Texas Rangers have always been encouraged to carry personal firearms and a 1911 has probably been the most commonly seen pistol over the last 80 or 90 years.

BTW, this is the Bicentennial Anniversary of the Texas Rangers

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"Acta non verba"

Huh, 1911? But Walker Texas Ranger carried a Taurus PT92!

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Don't know, but there was enough of a problem with the NC SHP guns that S&W took them back and bought Sig P229's for the agency to settle the issue. And then S&W discontinued them.

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Bill

The .357 SIG is a great caliber and one of my favorites. I picked up a SA XD in the caliber 20 years or so ago and loved it. A plus then was as noted that it was the issue caliber for DPS here so ammo was plentiful and I have always picked up some when I find it. SWMBO here got me a conversion barrel for the M&P .40 I bought back many years ago which works great.

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KM
S&WCA 3110 S&WHF 625

My first .357 Sig was an evidence room P229 I bought from my local cop store. Terrific pistol, great to shoot, amazingly accurate. Ammo became very costly however, and when offered way more than I paid for it I sold it. Immediately regretted it. A few years later the same cop shop had 1,000 rd cases of Speer Lawman .357 Sig for $200. They also had Glock 32’s for $459. I bought the Glock and every case of .357 Sig they had. The Glock isn’t as nice as the Sig, but it works just fine. I carry the Glock, loaded with GoldDot (another lucky ammo deal provided me a bunch of it) whenever I have to go to Philly. I won’t be selling the Glock, and at some point I’ll get another P229. A P239 in .357 Sig would be nice too have also.

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Wheel guns are real guns.

first thing I did when I bought my P229 in 40 was to buy a .357 Sig factory barrel.

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NRA RSO

I have one S&W 357 SIG factory barrel, a 2nd 4.25" from Stormlake, a KKM for my Compact 1.0 & an EFK Fire Dragon for the FN FNX-40...

Needless to say, I'm a big 357 SIG fan: I actually once bought two boxes of factory 125gr Gold Dots!

Cheers!

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Sit Reloader Sentiret

I have a M&P40 and an M&P357c, both with conversion barrels.
I keep the compact a 40 for wifes bedside/house gun.
The large is 357 as a "Critter gun" for coyotes (and now
alligators) that decide to get close.

I've found that there are a lot of 9mm bullets that are just not
suitable for 357SIG. Round noses don't work, has to be a
muscular looking flat nose or hollow point.
I've had little luck with lead, even hard cast. I've had better luck
with some plated, but jacketed always works.
I don't use 90gr or 147gr in the 357, but that's just my personal
bias.

My good buddy (RIP, also former Dallas PD) that I did security
with was convinced the 357 and 40 were boutique fads that
would soon burn out. I think they are effective, if not as
popular as mainstream calibers. I don't see either dying out.

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I'm with her

In answer to a previous question, I’ve got a Storm Lake conversion barrel for my early M&P 40C, and it’s been flawless. Not 10’s of thousands of round though, somewhere between 1-2 thousand.
Interestingly (to me anyway) I’ve got a 9mm barrel for it too. It was was unreliable enough to get me to send it back to Storm Lake, and they did admit to tweaking it without telling me what they did (I couldn’t tell.). It’s still not completely reliable, but not bad.
This little M&P had one of the first Apex kits installed by Randy Lee himself (when it wouldn’t work for me!), and has never hiccupped on 357, or possibly 10,000 rounds of 40. Great little gun!

it kinda hurt when Sig Sauer stopped supporting the 357SIG... like abandoning a puppy on the side of they road out in the countryside... just plain mean.. still hoping the nice farmer comes buy to rescue the pup before nefarious things happen.. ok, a bit of hyperbole.. I think the 357SIG survives as the goofy friend of 40s&w.

The Lee truncated cone mold powder coated works perfect in the p229. With clip on wheel weights and coated it is 126 grains. No noticeable leading either. I have limited to about 1300fps.

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SIG should have marketed the cartridge more aggressively, shown off the results of actual in-house ballistics gel tests, and maybe offered police departments some incentives to adopt the cartridge, then it most likely would have been popular enough to keep producing guns chambered in it, but alas, they didn't.

Fortunately, plenty of companies still offer aftermarket .357 SIG conversion barrels, which evidently remains a popular among owners of .40cal pistols, so there's that.

Maybe someday .357 SIG will get a second chance once someone with enough influence who's really into the cartridge begins promoting it on YouTube or something. It's not like it would be hard to build up hype for someone of influence to start singing it's praises like; "It's got the power of .357 Magnum in a semiautomatic pistol!" or "It's like 9mm on steroids!" and "Any .40cal pistol can be converted to .357 SIG with just a barrel swap!" to a new generation of shooters.

Honestly, 10mm Auto and Metal Frames have made a comeback, so why not?

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

I'm nowhere near being a ballistics expert nor do I have any real-world experience of using a firearm to dispense aggressive miscreants - and I have the utmost respect for those that are or do - but when it comes down to it is there really that much difference in what various calibers of a handgun can do? Obviously on paper the performance of a .357 SIG outclasses 9mm, .38, .45 and can equal that of a standard .357 Magnum, but handguns are still at the lowest rung of the firearm ladder, well below shotguns and rifles.

Playing the Devil's advocate here, I checked out Lucky Gunner testing media performance of .357 SIG vs. Winchester 9mm 147 grain Ranger T, my current carry choice. I do realize that while the testing media used is really only effective for comparison purposes, it's probably about as close to human viscera as we can get with a synthetic substance, sans the bones and tissue differences encountered in a real body. On paper the ballistic performance of the .357 SIG eclipses what is seen with the 9mm Ranger, however, the Ranger round performs better in both penetration and expansion. I'm pretty sure that additional tests with various media may have different results, but this is what I referenced.

So, looping back to my original premise, is there really that big a difference in what a handgun round can do if properly applied by the user? I recognize the ballistic superiority of the .357 SIG over just about anything else, but in the long run does it really matter? Is not the shot placement variable, no matter what the pistol caliber, a more critical consideration?

There are a couple of things to consider here...

1.) Clear Ballistics Gel =/= Organic Ballistics Gel
Yes, it works as a consistent testing media, but unlike the organic gel, it does not simulate organic tissue at all. It has much higher elasticity, thus making it more likely to shrink back and less likely to tear when energy is dumped into it. In an organic gel block, .357 SIG has an impressive permanent wound cavity with is larger in diameter than the bullet itself, ergo the assertion that remote wounding effects cannot occur with pistol cartridges like .357 SIG would seem to be inaccurate. Sure, it's not like rifle rounds with huge tears in the gel extending far beyond the diameter of the bullet, but the visible amount of stress taken by the gel as that energy was dumped into it remains, and it's substantial enough to safely say that it would hurt a lot more at the very least.

2.) Ballistics Gel Testing is obsolete.
The Military has long since adopted full simulated torsos with simulated bones and organs. These torsos are available for purchase and have appeared in a number of ammo tests on YouTube. The results are quite telling... While tissue alone may behave quite similarly regardless of what small arms pistol cartridges are fired into it, bones tell a much different story, and suddenly the asserted marginal difference between pistol cartridges becomes laughable. Don't get me wrong, any duty cartridge is still effective, still capable of incapacitating an attacker, but the sheer difference in damage to bone clearly sets them apart in terms of the potential for incapacitation via loss of mobility. It's like this, a 9mm will generally either punch a hole through a bone or fracture it, but a .40 or .45 will typically shatter bone on impact as it passes through, thus resulting in a far more physically devastating and incapacitating injury.
Unfortunately, I've yet to see .357 SIG tested on a Ballistics Torso, but it's most likely that the greater velocity will also result in bones shattering rather than simply breaking, and therefore being more effective.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Paul Harrel's meat target tests convinced me several times to pick certain SD loads in different calibers over the years. I don't know if he ever tried the 357SIG, but I would trust his results in those targets. Occasionally various 357SIG's show up in the used areas of LGS, and I've been tempted by the prices. First box of factory ammo is too much these days, though.

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Heavily armed old man.

Forte Smitten Wesson, appreciate the above insight. Guess I'm still struggling with the notion of whether the 'best' handgun round is realistically that much more effective than the 'worst' handgun round if both are applied properly. The incapacitation stats I've seen for calibers ranging from .22 to .45 are not hugely different, and 9mm hardball and .38 Special RNL have probably sent more to meet their maker than anything else. How much is enough? All that being said, in the extreme unlikelihood that I'll ever need to test any of this in a real-world scenario, I won't feel under-armed with one of my 9's or .45's.

Personally, I don't subscribe to the belief that their exists some illusive ideal, universal one-size-fits-all, platform for self-defense. I think it's best for folks to find what works best for them on an individual level, what they shoot best, what fits their hand best, what is best suited for their unique situation, etc.

Full disclosure: as much as I like .357 SIG, it's not my primary carry cartridge of choice, nor do I have any intention to adopt it as such. I carry .40 S&W, which I have found suits me best. I live in an area where humans aren't the only threat, ergo I feel safer carrying a cartridge with a bit more oomph than 9mm.

I think that each cartridge has its own inherent strengths and weaknesses, whichever is "best" is entirely subjective based on the individual who uses it, where they live, and what they might need it to do.

For example, obviously it's better for folks who live in Alaska to carry something more powerful like 10mm Auto or even a Magnum cartridge because they might just as well encounter a Polar Bear as a hostile human.

I also think that the psychological aspect of feeling confident in what you carry is of paramount importance, as obviously you're more likely to remain calm and collected if you believe that you're prepared, so even if it's a placebo effect, someone is much better off carrying what they feel confident with than something that causes them doubt, regardless of whether they doubt the performance of the cartridge or their own ability to use it effectively. So I encourage everyone to carry what works best for them.

As for what's "enough" for self-defense, folks have successfully defended themselves with .22 Pistols. Are their better options for self-defense? Absolutely, but even .22LR out of a Pistol is potentially lethal, so I would say that it's enough. Obviously, you're better off carrying something centerfire because it's inherently more reliable than rimfire ammunition, and more powerful cartridges are more likely to stop a threat regardless of variables like what angle to have to shoot them from to ensure adequate penetration, but if .22LR is all you have or the best you can carry due to some handicap, then I say carry it. Otherwise, I would feel more confident with .380 ACP.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.