More Ammunition Shortages?

Rudi · #51 11-03-2023, 10:50 PM

Was at a LGS today. I asked the guy behind the counter about ammo shortages. He said yes, their last order of Win. 5.56 was cancelled, and they were only selling 2 boxes per customer. But they have a good bit of it. Still had lots of 9mm and everything else. Even got a box of .06 for the give away price of $26.95!

Rogeronimo · #52 11-03-2023, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC38

Do they have Large Rifle Primers?
That is the ONE reloading component I have been unable to find the last couple of years....

Yeah, I agree with your point - until it comes to LRPs.
They are absolutely UNOBTANIUM. Not a baseless opinion, but an actual FACT.
Show me I'm wrong. Where can I buy them? Even at the ridiculous price of $100 a brick? As far as I have been able to find they are simply not available for sale ANYWHERE at any price.
A search for "large rifle primers" turns up NO results on GunBroker.
PLEASE prove me wrong - I'd love to find someone with some for sale...

Ginex right here ...

https://lohmanarms.com/product/ginex...rifle-primers/

walnutred · #53 11-04-2023, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC38

Show me I'm wrong. Where can I buy them? Even at the ridiculous price of $100 a brick? As far as I have been able to find they are simply not available for sale ANYWHERE at any price.
A search for "large rifle primers" turns up NO results on GunBroker.
PLEASE prove me wrong - I'd love to find someone with some for sale...

Two weeks ago I happened to stop in a large local chain called Vances Outdoors. I was looking for some .223 that was listed as on sale @$9 a box, sold out. But I did find Winchester LRP for $80/1000. Hated paying the price but like you that's the first I've seen since before COVID.

tom2 · #54 11-04-2023, 09:00 AM

The thing I noticed at some of the shops around here is that alot of them do not sell anything for reloading anymore. Not empty shelves, no place for reloading. I got a brick of useless to me large pistol primers and would prefer to have a brick of small pistol primers for revolvers. I am quite happy to roll my own wheelie practice ammo except I now have an aversion to loading autopistol rounds. Got out of the habit from chasing brass in the weeds. Losing alot. And for most of the time over the years at least 9MM was cheap enough that it was not worth the bother.

WR Moore · #55 11-04-2023, 10:29 AM

A couple of months ago, I saw some LR match primers on sale for ~$180/1000. I passed, thinking the sight was a hint of increasing supply. Again, I was wrong.

Maybe if the manufacturers decided to use small rifle primers in the non-magnum/humungous case calibers? Got some .308 brass that does.

jeffinmi · #56 11-06-2023, 09:13 AM

With the sale of Vista Outdoors sporting division, which includes major ammo companies like Remington, Federal, CCI, to the overseas Czechoslovak Group (CSG), that will add to the perceived ammo shortage and buying frenzy.

glenwolde · #57 11-06-2023, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reddog81

Don't believe every stupid thing you hear third hand from some assembly line employee. If you think ammo manufacturers are just sitting on stockpiles of ammo, you don't understand how businesses work.

Every time I hear this "evil ammo company" thesis I try to explain that you can't make money paying for components and labor and then sit on the production. I worked in manufacturing my entire life. It doesn't work! Especially now that interest rates are up. If they were so greedy, and that even worked (which it doesn't), why decrease your profit by quadrupling the management staff? Those guys get laid off too, all the time.

I hope the video is true. Because if it is, they've misinterpreted the meaning. It means the supply chain for pistol ammo is full again. Judging by all the $11.95 ("it'll never be below $20 again!") 9mm ammo I'm seeing flyers for that might be true. I respect manufacturing employees, I was one before I went into management. If they had a clue about how to manage a manufacturing operation they wouldn't still be on the floor.

If I'm right, primer prices should be coming down a little by spring.

max503 · #58 11-06-2023, 10:25 AM

We are in a buying window.

Dave Haynes · #59 11-06-2023, 01:26 PM

If you control the ammo you can disarm a population, same as taking the weapon.

Try and find calibers like 32-20, 25-35, and it is just not being made any more.

rockquarry · #60 11-06-2023, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Haynes

If you control the ammo you can disarm a population, same as taking the weapon.

Try and find calibers like 32-20, 25-35, and it is just not being made any more.

No one is trying to disarm you.

The cartridges you mention are not popular. The ammo companies prefer to produce cartridges that are popular and sell well. Your choices and several others are still produced but maybe only one big batch every few years. Same with brass for these cartridges. I've dealt with this for many years; just buy plenty when they are available.

BRL40 · #61 11-07-2023, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom2

...I am quite happy to roll my own wheelie practice ammo except I now have an aversion to loading autopistol rounds. Got out of the habit from chasing brass in the weeds. Losing alot...

I lost exactly ONE .40 caliber case and spent more time looking for that one stupid case than I did shooting that whole day...never found it.

I realized how ridiculous I was being and my solution was to get a pop-up beach tent to catch the brass.

Sure it's still ridiculous but at the end of the day all my brass is easily retrieved and available for reloading.

gnappi · #62 11-10-2023, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesWP

Not to be a smart butt, but in all seriousness I think warning posts like this work against us to get people stirred up and accelerate the hoarding that otherwise may not give it much thought.

I agree.

That said, I'm TOTALLY insulated from whatever foolishness comes about in the way of ammo / component availability due to bad weather, crime sprees, govt. orders, foreign wars etc. because over time I acquired everything I need.

Everyone else should already be in a like state or just stop crabbing about not having ammo and supplies.

BC38 · #63 11-10-2023, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnappi

I agree.

That said, I'm TOTALLY insulated from whatever foolishness comes about in the way of ammo / component availability due to bad weather, crime sprees, govt. orders, foreign wars etc. because over time I acquired everything I need.

Everyone else should already be in a like state or just stop crabbing about not having ammo and supplies.

As a long-time enthusiast I'm in the same position as you.
But what about newer guys? Not everyone has the luxury of having been stockpiling for years...
I just can't buy into a "let them eat cake" attitude.
Now if someone has been shooting for decades and hasn't laid in a good supply by now, sure, they made their own bed.
But people who have only been in the shooting sports for 3 years or less, they have never had the opportunity to stock up when it was plentiful and cheap, they've never experienced anything OTHER than these shortages.
Those are the folks I feel bad for...

JamesWP · #64 11-10-2023, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC38

Do they have Large Rifle Primers?
That is the ONE reloading component I have been unable to find the last couple of years....

Yeah, I agree with your point - until it comes to LRPs.
They are absolutely UNOBTANIUM. Not a baseless opinion, but an actual FACT.
Show me I'm wrong. Where can I buy them? Even at the ridiculous price of $100 a brick? As far as I have been able to find they are simply not available for sale ANYWHERE at any price.
A search for "large rifle primers" turns up NO results on GunBroker.
PLEASE prove me wrong - I'd love to find someone with some for sale...

I have bought them recently at House of Guns in Boswell, OK and TP Outdoors in West Monroe Louisiana. They are there here and there if you look. I think at HOG they were $11/100 and TP $15/100.

pharmer · #65 11-10-2023, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC38

........But people who have only been in the shooting sports for 3 years or less, they have never had the opportunity to stock up when it was plentiful and cheap, they've never experienced anything OTHER than these shortages. Those are the folks I feel bad for...

Like us, newbies need to realize these are the "good old days."
1) Examples; today 5.56 M193 55gr Privi is $11/box 20, 9mm is $13/box 50.
Get it while you can. $275 for 500 5.56 on your doorstep, $260/K 9mm ball.
2) "Bulk ammo" shipped to the house will go away, maybe soon. There are critters awake nights plotting and sharpening their axes. Some states already need ammo to go through an FFL.
Get after it. Joe

BC38 · #66 11-10-2023, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesWP

I have bought them recently at House of Guns in Boswell, OK and TP Outdoors in West Monroe Louisiana. They are there here and there if you look. I think at HOG they were $11/100 and TP $15/100.

Good on ya' mate! Although I have been looking pretty hard, I have to admit I haven't been checking every out of the way regional supplier and mom & pop shop in OK and LA.

local_dirt · #67 11-11-2023, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucev

This is JMHO and that is all. I remember 2008. My daughters wanted to shoot their little Ruger rifles. It was all I could do to get enough ammo to let them shoot. Never had previously had problems buying plain Jane .22 LR, much less .38 Special, .45 ACP and certainly not 9mm. FMJ rifle ammo went crazy. I remember. So ... over the years I've made it a practice to buy ammo when it was affordable. Right now, if you can find affordable 9mm, .22 LR ... buy it. It doesn't eat. It doesn't rot. Buy it. In the recent go round of short supply and high prices, I had church members who were in the same boat as I was in back in 2008. I gave them ammo. I gave ammo to men I saw at the range w/ their children/grandchildren. Hurts to see someone having to basically ration ammo to a child. Stinks. The smile on that child's face ... and the response of the parent is worth the price paid. My grandchildren live up north and have no opportunities to go shooting. When they get down here to Ga., they have opportunities! We use a Bugassault on the back porch. Salt is cheap. Fun to shoot bugs, leaves, etc. Later, when they are old enough ... there are two Red Ryder's waiting ... and two 10-22's. So ... I'm keeping an eye out for salt ... and BB's ... and .22 LR!!! And, for my son-in-law ... I'm also watching for .38 Specials and 9mm. Sincerely. bruce.

I hear ya. I have some really nice great shooting .22s. Tony Kidd 10/22, CZ 452 American, Ruger MK II and a Mark III with a TacSol upper set up for a suppressor. Whenever I see youngsters at the range when I'm shooting, I always ask them if they want to shoot my guns. The looks on their faces when I ask them that question and as they're shooting bugholes makes for an absolutely incredible day, for them and me.

Skeet 028 · #68 11-11-2023, 12:51 AM

I happen to have about 25,000 22s. Want to find a real nice 22 semi auto but I digress. I hardly shoot the 9mm and am buying what I can...at mostly reasonable prices. Everything else I can make with my reloading supplies which I continue to buy. Got a thousand CCI BR 2 LRPs yesterday for 40 bucks at an estate sale near Billings. I continue to buy any useable supplies I come up on....sure can't hurt and so what if someone calls you a hoarder...It ain't so if you intend to use em

BC38 · #69 11-11-2023, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeet 028

...Got a thousand CCI BR 2 LRPs yesterday for 40 bucks at an estate sale near Billings...

Heck yeah! At that price I'll take 10,000 of them...

old pipefitter · #70 11-11-2023, 09:55 AM

And some guy in Europe just bought Vista outdoors ( federal cartridge, CCI, Speer, and a few others) Start buying

Bald1 · #71 11-11-2023, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Model19man

I bought what I think is a lifetime supply of primers and powder when it looked like there would be a President Dukakis. Thankfully that never happened but I still have a lot left that was purchased in 1988.

When did it ever look like “Dukakis” would win????? Never had a chance

AJ · #72 11-11-2023, 10:32 AM

Bottom line is buy what you can when you can. Maybe reduce your shooting if necessary to save on ammo. I only buy components (from estate sales) and scrap lead (to cast bullets), this has pretty much insulated me from the shortages.

LostintheOzone · #73 11-11-2023, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC38

As a long-time enthusiast I'm in the same position as you.
But what about newer guys? Not everyone has the luxury of having been stockpiling for years...
I just can't buy into a "let them eat cake" attitude.
Now if someone has been shooting for decades and hasn't laid in a good supply by now, sure, they made their own bed.
But people who have only been in the shooting sports for 3 years or less, they have never had the opportunity to stock up when it was plentiful and cheap, they've never experienced anything OTHER than these shortages.
Those are the folks I feel bad for...

It's like gas prices for a lot of folks. You just buy what you need from month to month and hope you have enough money to pay the bills. Inflation is taking a big chunk out of everyone's paycheck these days.

It's true that ammo isn't perishable over a few years so it can be stockpiled but the fact remains that it isn't a necessity like food, rent/mortgage, insurance and fuel.

Mostly, I think that people who have this let-them-eat-cake attitude have more disposable income than the family who lives on 75K/yr. which is the median income.

max503 · #74 11-11-2023, 11:01 AM

Nothing wrong with discussing shortages and stocking up. The problem is the hoarders with too much money who buy skids-full of ammo to fill their bunkers with.

rockquarry · #75 11-11-2023, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max503

Nothing wrong with discussing shortages and stocking up. The problem is the hoarders with too much money who buy skids-full of ammo to fill their bunkers with.

I don't know that anyone can have too much money, but are you actually aware of someone who has bought skids of ammo for bunkers? I would guess if this has happened the numbers of such persons would be too small to have any real effect on supplies, but I could certainly be wrong.

AJ · #76 11-11-2023, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockquarry

I don't know that anyone can have too much money, but are you actually aware of someone who has bought skids of ammo for bunkers? I would guess if this has happened the numbers of such persons would be too small to have any real effect on supplies, but I could certainly be wrong.

Bought skids/pallets.....No. Has skids/pallets.....Yes. Just bought over a 30 year period.

rockquarry · #77 11-11-2023, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ

Bought skids/pallets.....No. Has skids/pallets.....Yes. Just bought over a 30 year period.

Sounds like an isolated instance of one person buying ammo over thirty years. How could that have any effect on the ammo supply market?

Skeet 028 · #78 11-11-2023, 11:48 AM

I Was Robbed. There were only 994 primers in the lot of BR2s...Six were missing.surprisingly the only other thing they had for reloading was an old Pacific scale you had to have weights to set the weight for...25 dollars no weights. I used one of them way back in the 50s

tops · #79 11-11-2023, 12:02 PM

I have always shot more .22 RFs than CF and the last few years I have really raised my .22 RF count. A .22 will punch a hole in paper and kill a tin can just as good as a .357M or a 30-06 and a .22 is cheaper and more plentiful than the primer for a centerfire cartridge. Larry

AJ · #80 11-11-2023, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockquarry

Sounds like an isolated instance of one person buying ammo over thirty years. How could that have any effect on the ammo supply market?

It does not. But he is well stocked! Ammo shortages will not affect him or his heirs for many years.

LostintheOzone · #81 11-11-2023, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max503

Nothing wrong with discussing shortages and stocking up. The problem is the hoarders with too much money who buy skids-full of ammo to fill their bunkers with.

I'm not seeing how hoarders create a shortage. Remember that the military and LE buy 100x more ammo than rec shooters. If they can meet that demand they can certainly meet the rec shooters demand, regardless of hoarding.

In any business, companies manufacture what they can sell if they have the resources to do that. The pandemic caused some labor issues which in turn caused some shortages. Now we're back to 2019 except there has been some inflation since then. That means the price of ammo has gone up like everything else.

I'm going with prices dropping even more until next spring and that's when I stock up again on primers. I don't buy ammo.

Dave Lively · #82 11-11-2023, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostintheOzone

I'm not seeing how hoarders create a shortage. Remember that the military and LE buy 100x more ammo than rec shooters. If they can meet that demand they can certainly meet the rec shooters demand, regardless of hoarding.

The military has long term contracts for ammo. The same is probably true for large LE agencies. With a long term contract the ammo companies can know how much capacity they need to fill the contracts and plan accordingly.

But with the civilian market demand is wildly unpredictable with large and sudden surges in demand often followed by long periods of low demand. Build enough capacity for the surges and they have to pay overhead on expensive under utilized factories when demand is low. Don't build more capacity and they miss the opportunity to sell when demand and prices are high. It's more complicated and risky than dealing with military contracts.

Falling victim to FOMO panic is more often than not an expensive mistake. And in the case of ammo it makes life hard for regular shooters that prefer to buy ammo in small quantities as needed. The best solution I see at this time is for any that shoots often to have enough ammo on hand to get through the next shortage.

rockquarry · #83 11-11-2023, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostintheOzone

I'm not seeing how hoarders create a shortage. Remember that the military and LE buy 100x more ammo than rec shooters. If they can meet that demand they can certainly meet the rec shooters demand, regardless of hoarding.

In any business, companies manufacture what they can sell if they have the resources to do that. The pandemic caused some labor issues which in turn caused some shortages. Now we're back to 2019 except there has been some inflation since then. That means the price of ammo has gone up like everything else.

I'm going with prices dropping even more until next spring and that's when I stock up again on primers. I don't buy ammo.

Agreed on alleged hoarders. Many threads of dubious value on many forums, but this ammo shortage "fad" ranks among the most useless.

Kinman · #84 11-11-2023, 10:33 PM

One thing that came as a surprise to me was the shortage of quality target .22 ammunition. I shoot an Anschutz 54 from the early 70's at a friendly impromptu type Saturday morning shooting match. I was surprised that guys were shooting Blazer and other common "plinking" grade ammo. I asked what the reasoning was as anybody that shoots .22's at distance knows its more about the ammo than anything else. Can't get the good stuff. I know a guy that is world class quality with a .22, he couldn't shoot in his game because he couldn't get ammo. He could have gotten ammo but it would have required him to send his rifle in for test firing, then your allowed a couple cases...thats what the smart guys and club shooters do. My rifle is super picky when it comes to ammo and usually requires spending at least $14+ per 50rnd box....if you shoot competitively that starts adding up quick. I asked the guys at the old CCI plant in Lewiston, ID why there was a shortage of muzzle loading caps. They explained that the same machinery line that produces caps and primers is also used to manufacture .22/.17 rimfire.

bushmaster1313 · #85 11-12-2023, 10:18 PM

No shortage
But prices are going back up
If anyone sees quality 5.56 at $0.35/rd please let us know

The Preacher · #86 11-13-2023, 11:06 AM

We're getting all kinds of mixed information at this point. Wars in Ukraine and Israel using small arms ammo at a high rate. Lake City not selling to civilians, Hornady fire, Vista selling off to a foreign investor. Then Lake City says they never said they wouldn't sell to civilians, plus now some areas (NY) are contemplating not allowing Lake City 5.56 ammo to be sold as it's claimed that a large percentage of "mass shootings" have happened with LC ammo... confusing and convoluted at the best. I've been told by my local dealer that once what's on the shelf is gone, the distributors have very little if any 5.56 to ship. Who knows what's trues at this point. However, I'd say we're primed for a prolonged shortage of NATO rounds (and all rounds as components are used up for the NATO rounds) and I'd suggest if you need something, well now it would be prudent to buy. As the saying goes, Ammo don't eat hay.

djohns6 · #87 11-13-2023, 11:34 AM

I've learned that if you are well stocked on ammo , don't advertise it to your friends or family . Suddenly you will become the go - to guy for those that didn't prepare for the shortage . And they will expect a bargain price to boot .
Been there .

The Preacher · #88 11-13-2023, 12:07 PM

"Loose lips, sink ships"..... Another once used phrase.

Greyman50 · #89 11-16-2023, 09:58 AM

Decide after you look on PSA site for 62 grn. 5.56 mm, Also none in local walk ins around Jax.