Ballistics for S&W Branded Ammo

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PhilT

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I am trying to find the ballistics for S&W branded .357 and .38 special. These are from around 1978, blue box w/ white letters.

S357-158JHP and S38-125JHP

Also, did S&W manufacture these, or, if not, who did?

Thanks
 
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As I recall, S&W went into partnership with Fiocchi and bought the old Alcan Co. Their ammo was built by Fiocchi with Alcan components.

Your best bet would be to find archived magazine articles from the time about the "new" ammo. They might have some real world test information.
 
The ballistic info may be available in old GUN DIGESTS from that era and Speer at one time published the same in their handloading manuals along with real figures that they chronographed.
 
Yep S&W-F stamped ammo was sold for about 60 days after They bought out the old Alcan company. I'll have to look 'em ip but I have Brochures on the Ammo and the shotguns they sold at the time. Shotguns were the S&W 1000 Semi auto and the 1000-P Pump originally then changed the pump to the 3000. The ammo specs at the time pretty much matched the rest of the industry. In all that old stuff I even have some branded loading data too. Pistol data was packaged with the handguns for a while. I even have some shotshells branded Holiday I think with S&W-F headstamps. I'm not sure where the ammo was made but Alcan products were made by Fiocchi. Boxes marked East Alton. My wholesalers at the time were Clair Frank in Willow Street Pa and Roberts shell Company In Vineland NJ...but for ne mostly shotgun ammo
 
Thanks, Skeet 028. These are not stamped -F, just S&W. Very interested in what you can find out. Actually, the .38 are +P. I didn't notice it at first because the $11.99 price tag was covering the designation.

My boxes are marked:
S&W Ammunition Company
Member S&W
Sporting Goods Group
Rock Creek, Ohio 44084
 
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Fiocchi left the partnership with S&W in the mid-1970's. The head stamp was then changed to S&W from S&W-F and the ammo was then produced at a plant in Rock Creek, OH, about 45 miles east of Cleveland. Brass, powder, and jacketed bullets were purchased from established suppliers, but primers and swaged lead bullets were made in-house. Primers and brass were also sold as reloading components.

My recollection is that ballistics were in line with the other manufacturers of the day, like Remington, Winchester, and Federal.
 
From a collectibility viewpoint, the S&W ammunition is fairly common and easily found. At least currently, it carries no significant collectible value premium. Regarding ballistics, it is very doubtful that S&W ammunition differs from SAAMI specifications. Very similar performance to equivalent ammunition made by Remington, Federal, Winchester, etc., would be expected.

I do not place a great deal of confidence in ballistic information provided and published by any ammunition manufacturer. If you want to know how anyone's ammunition performs in YOUR gun, it is time to buy a chronograph.

Fiocchi's website states that it once had a partnership with S&W in the 1950s to manufacture ammunition in a plant in Alton IL. It later sold its partnership interest to S&W. I doubt that the reference to the 1950s is correct. Other information says that S&W-branded information was made from 1972 to 1980-81. If you are really interested in more complete information about S&W ammunition, I suggest you post a question on the International Ammunition Association's forum. That is where the world's ammunition experts hang out. And that is not an exaggeration.
 
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DWalt said:
From a collectibility viewpoint, the S&W ammunition is fairly common and easily found. At least currently, it carries no significant collectible value premium. Regarding ballistics, it is very doubtful that S&W ammunition differs from SAAMI specifications. Very similar performance to ammunition made by Remington, Federal, Winchester, etc., would be suspected.
Click to expand...

Not only that, it got to the point where all the major manufactuers/ distributors were using virtually the same figures as evidenced by GUN DIGEST listings. The only way you would know of a variance was to chronograph them yourself and the slight variance from one pistol or revolver to another is usually insignificant.

I'm not an expert, but from what I've seen, ballistic variations were considerably greater before the +P designation in the early '70s. That doesn't take into account the short vs. long barrels, vented vs. unvented test barrels, etc.
 
I remember reading a number of tepid reviews of S&W ammunition...it wasn't well received for some reason...inconsistent accuracy or functioning? The only one well liked was the Nyclad and Federal bought the design from them. I had a full box of Nyclads and a collector bought it from me as he wanted it more than I did...and had the dineros to prove it.
 
I do remember they sometimes gave the ammo away with a gun purchase as a promotion. I bought a 57 in 1979 I think and got two boxes of S&W .41 ammo with it.
 
1971 S&W Fiochi Alcan Ammunition Specifications

An early 1971 magazine article announcing the new S&W / Alcan / Fiochi ammunition included this table of the nominal velocities published by the makers. Pre-publication timing would make this circa 1970.

These are not tested velocities. The writer tested for accuracy but not velocity. Large grain of salt to be applied to the claimed numbers.

Note also that this is before the adoption by SAAMI of the +P designation.

I bought the pictured box of .38 Special new in about 1973.

==========================

We also have Bangor Punta absorbing Smith & Wesson and then with additional strength S&W acquiring General Ordnance Equipment Corporation, a tear gas manufacturer, then merging With Fiocchi to become Smith & Wesson-Fiocchi Incorporated. Finally the acquisition of Alcan, a leader in reloading components...

Both [S&W-F & Alcan] brands will have the same head stamp - S&W-F plus caliber designation.

The Alcan marketed product will be identical to that boxed and sold in the
blue and silver S&W box. However its packaging will be predominately red, with a bullet in flight in white and a blue gun muzzle. ...



.38 Special --Velocity --Energy

148-Grain Wadcutter .. 800 fps…210 foot-pounds

158-Grain Round
Nose Lead ...... . .. 910 fps…249 foot-pounds

110-Grain in Jacketed
Hollow Point .. . .... 1390 fps…472 foot-pounds

125-Grain Jacketed
Hollow Point .. ..... 1380 fps ..529 foot-pounds

158-Grain Jacketed
Hollow Point . . .... . 1140 fps.. 455 foot-pounds

158-Grain Jacketed
Soft Point . .. .. ... . 1145 fps.. 460 foot-pounds


.357 Magnum --Velocity --Energy

110-Grain Jacketed
Hollow Point .. .. .. . 1960 fps.. 938 foot-pounds

125-Grain Jacketed
Hollow Point .. .. . .. 1775 fps.. 874 foot-pounds

158-Grain Jacketed
Hollow Point ... .. .. 1530 fps.. 820 foot-pounds

158-Grain Jacketed
Soft Point . . ...... 1535 fps.. 826 foot-pounds


9mm --Velocity --Energy

1OO-Grain full
Metal Jacket ....... 1325 fps ..390 foot-pounds

115-Grain Jacketed
Hollow Point . . ..... 1155 fps ..340 foot-pounds

..
 

Attachments

  • S&W .38 Spl. 125 JHP pre +P box 1973.JPG
    S&W .38 Spl. 125 JHP pre +P box 1973.JPG
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I never used any of it and it wasn't very popular from what I remember, but I see no reason why performance or accuracy would be much different from anything else available at the time, especially in such a competitive market. I've been wrong before.
 
When S&W was selling the shotguns the gve awat for a short time a blue heavyweight clamshell box that held 4 boxes of S&W target ammo. I bought 10 guns of semi and 10 pumps and got 20 of the clamshell boxes of ammo. The pump was a clone of the 870...the semi auto had a proprietary gas system that did not work well. The mag tube would swell from the gas pressure and the gun would stop functioning. Another continued making th shotguns after S&W quit(mossberg?) . they were trim shotguns but noone ever solved the gas system problem. A harder thicker mag tube would have done it...but not enough profit I guess. I have a partial box of their 38 special 110 gr JHP Code S38HP1 on my desk here.

....Should have put...they are HS S&W-F and the address is Alton Ill. with Smith&Wesson,Fiocchi Inc...I looked at 2 1000 boxes of Primers...one an old box of LPPs with Alcan branding Alton Ill. Priced $5.00 another SPP marked S&W with the later address. Blue and white box. $8.75 I also have a 100 box SPPs Blue white box...marked Alcan Alton, Ill... grease pencil marked 75 cents.....All are marked made in USA
 
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That's the little booklet I have too. I also have a small elongated booklet like that with reloading data too 9mm 38, 357 ...just standard loads though
 
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