Is the hottest ammo the best ammo?

[Dave Lively]

From reading the various gun fora and watch videos on YouTube you would think best ammo is always the hottest ammo.

That a 38 +P loaded so hot it matches the ballistics some of the weaker .357 ammo is a good choice for lightweight revolver chambered in 38 +P. That the only 10mm ammo worth buying is whatever boutique brand produces the highest velocity for a given bullet weight. That while many ammo makers exaggerate the velocity printed on the box there is no way they would exceed SAAMI pressure specs to sell more ammo to those that believe more power is always better. That if a semiauto malfunctions when fed ammo hotter than it was designed for it is always the fault of the gun. That if you cannot shoot a hot loaded 10mm as well as your 9mm you just need more training.

My experience with the boutique ammo I have tried has been mixed. I shot a Glock 29 that choked on Underwood ammo but was 100% reliable with other brands and looking at reviews other people had the same problem. Some Underwood 9mm +P+ I tried out of curiosity worked well in one gun but constantly jammed in another. The boutique revolver ammo I have tried has akways worked well though.

My carry and home defense guns are usually loaded with +P 9mm from a major manufacturer like Speer or Federal. It may not be as powerful as the numbers on the box and is definitely less powerful than boutique ammo but performs well in every test I have seen. Next time I buy some HP ammo I might buy regular pressure instead since it matches the cheap FMJ ammo I practice with. I want ammo that has enough penetration and expands reliably but once you get to 9mm levels of power you don't need extra powerful ammo to achieve that.

There are no grizzly bears where I go hiking. But even if there was I would stick with a 44 Magnum or 10mm loaded with ammo from a major manufacturer.

If I need more power than what I can get with ammo from the bigger makers I'll buy a gun chambered for more powerful cartridge. If 9mm isn't enough there is .357 Sig. If 40 isn't enough there is 10mm. If 10mm isn't enough maybe its time to consider switching to a 44 revolver. If a 44 isn't enough there is a 500 S&W.

If I wanted a revolver for hunting or wild animal defense I would consider using boutique ammo instead of buying a bigger gun. But I am done experimenting with extra hot boutique ammo in semiautos. Its not worth the extra cost and risk of reduced reliability.

The poll is about what you choose for defending against violent criminals, not 800 pound bears.

 

[Breakaway500]

Unless I have a specific need for full power loads,like blasting a hole through a foundation like a friend once did, I buy what works best in my firearms. Accuracy and dependability Trump power in my eyes.

 

[rockquarry]

Best to try several (four or five or more ammos, different bullet weights and configurations) and test for accuracy, point-of-aim vs. point-of-impact, and quick recovery from recoil. If using a semi-auto, add the requirement of 100% reliable functioning.

Don't worry about +P or standard pressure; what works best for you is what's best for you. Don't test up close as it's a waste of time, effort, and ammo. I'd do it at 25 yards for best results, but 15 yards would be the minimum. Do all that and you'll be ahead of the YouTube and Internet crackerjacks and you'll actually learn about your ability and your gun's capability with the ammos you selected.

 

[venomballistics]

It will vary from cartridge. If we are talking about an ample cartridge, like the 44 magnum, most anything over 900 FPS is going to be ballistically useful for some application. one would be hard pressed to find an offering that does not achieve this. As such, it offers a world of viable options.
I rather like 200-220 grains in a range of 1200 - 1350 FPS
As we meander on down the cartridge food chain, we lose this versatility.
when we to the 380 auto, it has so little headroom that even at maximum loadings, a hollow point may sacrifice too much of it's limited penetration. In this case, power is more important than it would be in a more generous cartridge.

 

[IAM Rand]

I have always said location, location, location. Having said that, I still believe you need a quality round. Can I do the same with hardball ammo, sure. I believe that a good quality defense round is necessary but, I am not going to lose my mind over what I would carry.

Practice with what you will carry and practice with the defense ammo you will use.

 

[Dave Lively]

Don't test up close as it's a waste of time, effort, and ammo. I'd do it at 25 yards for best results, but 15 yards would be the minimum.

What's the advantage of shooting at 25 yards?

Most often I shoot at 12 yards. Because the range I most often go to at the gun club has steel plates at that distance with a berm a couple of yards behind the rack of plates. Its more convenient to shoot paper targets at the same range than switch to one of the 25 yard ranges. I believe how quickly and reliably I can hit a plate at that range is more important than shooting the smallest possible groups slow fire.

But when I do shoot paper at 25 yards the group are always about twice as large as the ones I shoot at 12 yards. If the point of impact is right on at 12 yards its usually good at 25 too. The club rules prohibit shooting magnums on ranges with steel plates because some numbskulls cannot resist damaging the plates with their big magnum revolvers. So I do sometimes shoot at 25 yards and bring not just a magnum revolver but also some other guns. I have never seen anything at 25 yards that was different than what I see at 12.

 

[dave1918a2]

What ever is the most accurate and reliable in My gun is what I carry. What cycles My CSX and 1911 EVERY time is in the magazines. What is the most accurate is in My revolver cylinders. I practice from21 feet out to 100 yards with every carry gun.

 

[Nevada Ed]

"Atomic" loads are no good if you can't hit the target with them or they
will not eject from a cylinder, for a reload.

If you can put the first five on target, go for it.

 

[rockquarry]

What's the advantage of shooting at 25 yards?

Most often I shoot at 12 yards. Because the range I most often go to at the gun club has steel plates at that distance with a berm a couple of yards behind the rack of plates. Its more convenient to shoot paper targets at the same range than switch to one of the 25 yard ranges. I believe how quickly and reliably I can hit a plate at that range is more important than shooting the smallest possible groups slow fire.

But when I do shoot paper at 25 yards the group are always about twice as large as the ones I shoot at 12 yards. If the point of impact is right on at 12 yards its usually good at 25 too. The club rules prohibit shooting magnums on ranges with steel plates because some numbskulls cannot resist damaging the plates with their big magnum revolvers. So I do sometimes shoot at 25 yards and bring not just a magnum revolver but also some other guns. I have never seen anything at 25 yards that was different than what I see at 12.

I don't follow when you say that twenty-five yard groups are twice as large as twelve-yard groups then end by saying twenty-five yard groups were no different than twelve.

For me, and I'm sure for many others, if the gun, the ammo, and the shooter all do well at 25 yards, that combination of three will do even better at closer distances. Yes, I've thrown in shooter skill, a factor many don't have much interest in. That's a reason they often shoot at close distances.

Twenty-five yard shooting will help to weed out second-rate ammo. Shoot as close as you like after selecting the best ammo and testing it at distance.
The tired old excuse "defensive situations occur at a few feet" is a poor reason not to practice and be proficient with your gun and ammo at greater distances.

 

[Shibadog]

As a general rule I’ve found over the decades that the “hottest” load and the most “accurate” load are typically quite different. I want an accurate load that I can shoot well. Gave up on the “hottest” loadsdecades ago.

 

[CMYSIX]

simple answer NO!

 

[Dave Lively]

I don't follow when you say that twenty-five yard groups are twice as large as twelve-yard groups then end by saying twenty-five yard groups were no different than twelve.

I am thinking MOA so a 4 inch group at 25 yards is the same as a 2 inch group at 12.5 yards.

There might be a small difference in elevation due to the distance between the bore and the sights. But other than that if you can hit a 3 inch target at 12 yards you can hit a 6 inch target at 25. It's not the distance, its the level of precision that matters.

While I believe practical accuracy such as being able to hit a plate at 12 yards quickly is more important I do practice more precise shooting too. But in the form of trying to hit smaller targets at shorter distances instead of larger targets further away.

 

[rockquarry]

I am thinking MOA so a 4 inch group at 25 yards is the same as a 2 inch group at 12.5 yards.

There might be a small difference in elevation due to the distance between the bore and the sights. But other than that if you can hit a 3 inch target at 12 yards you can hit a 6 inch target at 25. It's not the distance, its the level of precision that matters.

While I believe practical accuracy such as being able to hit a plate at 12 yards quickly is more important I do practice more precise shooting too. But in the form of trying to hit smaller targets at shorter distances instead of larger targets further away.

I understand what you're saying now. I agree that the elevation difference between twelve and twenty-five yards is insignificant.

I seldom shoot anything but single-action 25-yard Bullseye style nowadays, but it's simple to revert to two-handed double-action shooting.

 

[chief38]

The most powerful round does not necessarily mean it is the best SD round! For example, I have been carrying a Sig P365 for almost 5 years now. It has a 3.1" barrel and it actually performs better with standard velocity Federal HST 124 grain ammo than it does with +P in the same configuration. The reason behind this is the standard velocity loading expands slower because it has a 6% -7%% lower velocity and actually penetrates about 2" more than the +P round which expands faster. So while the +P will expand slightly more (not enough to matter) it is about 2" shy of how far the standard round goes.

Ballistics do differ with different calibers, barrel lengths and std. vs +P velocities. Many just buy what's on the shelf and some do their homework and buy what seems to work best in their particular pistol. Accuracy and grain weight make a difference too! Some brands shoot better than others in different guns, so that is why it's important to do the homework on your EDC/CCW.

 

[Michaelp57]

I'm not of the belief that the round needs to be the hottest of the caliber that you carry. I think most people have trouble finding the broad side of the barn on follow up shot with ammo like that. That said, I also think it still needs to be plenty potent. No need to stick a .45 super round in your shield 45 for defense against 2 legged attackers, but some Underwood extreme defender 135gr +p will be quite potent.
I say carry the most EFFECTIVE round that you can hit confidently with, as long as it is reliable in the gun you are carrying. Note I said effective, not powerful. Per a joint agency test from 2016/2017, the Underwood extreme defender is the most effective, reliable performance you can get in any caliber that it is offered in(on paper).

So no it doesn't have to be the most "powerful"(felt recoil, muzzle energy). It does have to be quite potent, and as close to 100% reliable as possible(cycling and actual performance of the round).

 

[Green Frog]

A solid hit with good mid range ammo will beat a miss with the most powerful ammo on the shelf!
Now, as for distance, if I’m practicing for self defense, I’m now practicing at 7 1/2-15 yds… if my “attacker” is farther away than 15 yds I’d better have a real good reason to engage. Target practice goes out to 25 yds and occasionally to 50 yds or more, but that’s mostly to show myself I still can do it, but unless some sort of competition is involved, I seldom shoot out there far with a handgun. YMMV
Froggie

 

[Ingramite]

Ammo polls come in different flavors of influence.

1) Of course you do realize that ANY handgun is only good to get you to your rifle? - That's the consensus on a long gun forum.

2) Of course you know that ANY rifle is only good for killing the rat behind the refrigerator....in your neighbor's house - From a shotgun forum.

3) Of course you know that only a S&W forum even remembers what .38 special is. Maybe a rock and roll band?

4) Of course you know.....yada yada ....from the guy at the gun counter trying to sell you a box of ammo. Because he is only going to sell what he has.

5) Of course if you tune in a 1911 Forum you'll quickly learn what round The Lord carried.....At least YOUR caliber has to start with a 4.

6) What does the FBI recommend and carry? I guess that depends what season and which episode you're watching.

7) Ok this is maddening. Of course, those who forget history are doomed to re-live it.....Huh, no help there either. A .380 started WWI.

I'm glad to finally have the opportunity to put this one to bed once and for all.....now, what was the question again?

 

[LVSteve]

When it comes to self defense ammo in 9mm or 380, hot is better.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

In rifles. The hottest(ie-high velocity) ammo is the least accurate from a grouping stand point...........Could be same with a handgun......With a rifle you have much more physical control of the weapon......With a handgun held way out there at the ends of your arms recoil from hot make the gun react more violently.......So just using physics milder ammo with be easier to control and more accurate.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

When it comes to self defense ammo in 9mm or 380, hot is better.

OR you could go up in caliber. Personally don't believe some of these plastic 9's will withstand a steady diet of +P , +P+ ammo. Over the long haul. Most have short barrels(remember the chamber is counted in barrel length). ..So lots of that energy meant for velocity turns into.......Extra noise and muzzle flash.........Run "em" over a cronograph at 5-6 ft..