When it comes to the reloading forum, that thread about elmer kiething the 38 special hit home.

Finally got to a range, and played with some 357 magnums. Low budget guns, nothing to write home about. Nothing id buy, but i just needed to shoot them. The ammunition used was remington 130 grain fmj FP 38 special.

100 rounds of that estimated 800fps in 4 inch barrel per remington website, had my hands, and fore arms HURTING, I mean sore and tingling for hours. I can shoot 30 rounds of 240swc over 6 grains Red Dot in a 629 and my hands want MORE.

Was looking at lucky gunner website gelatin data for 38 special and 357 magnum, and was rather shocked by the actual gelatin results they had in 2 and 4 inch barrels.

In the under 140 grain bullets, the 4 inch barrels in both calibers got higher velocity but often less expansion then the 2".

If you go back in time and look at the Speer #8 manual, you can find alot of over powered 38 special that alot of people were afraid of using.

I didn't think hot .38 ammo existed outside of Buffalo Bore, Underwood and a few other manufacturers. I used to be able to see a big difference in standard and +P loads, now the difference is hardly perceptible. Many years ago I was at the range shooting .38 and switched to +Ps. As a couple of guys were leaving, they commented, "He's shooting +Ps now." I don't think that would happen nowadays.

Speaking of hot loads I've mentioned my old Sierra manual from 1970 that had really hot loads. I played with some in .38 special and didn't get too far in increasing the powder charge before I called 'enough'. I didn't think they were 'dangerous', especially in my model 10, but they were getting rather raucous.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

The loading data is out there, and i have always felt those were just mislabelled 38/44 load data.