Cowboy Action Loads

[erikpolcrack]

Are these 45 Colt loads safe in a blackpowder frame first generation Colt SAA?

Edit: Question was asked because I recently came across some Aguila stuff that pushes a 200 grain lead bullet at only 600 fps, for a mere 160 ftlbs. That's less than 38 S&W. We're talking 38 Short Colt territory. That was used in 1851 Navy cartridge conversions.

[BigMuddy]

It’s debatable, and I know some do, but I wouldn’t. Hands, eyes, and first gen Colts are too valuable to “try” it. I have an 1878 Colt DA that the previous owner loaded low pressure smokeless loads for, but I shoot it with BP only.

Dan

[erikpolcrack]

Originally Posted by BigMuddy

It’s debatable, and I know some do, but I wouldn’t. Hands, eyes, and first gen Colts are too valuable to “try” it. I have an 1878 Colt DA that the previous owner loaded low pressure smokeless loads for, but I shoot it with BP only.

Dan

Thanks, Dan. I've still got a bunch of specially loaded low power loads that came with the gun when I got it from my BIL. I'm looking ahead to when those are gone.

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Originally Posted by erikpolcrack

Are these 45 Colt loads safe in a blackpowder frame first generation Colt SAA?

Why take a chance? The late gun writer Mike "Duke" Venturino blew up one of his first generation Colt SAA.

You know they recommend people not shoot WWI 1911s. 100+ years ago metallurgy is different now.

[gwpercle]

A black powder frame , first Generation Colt SAA ...

I wouldn't take the chance .

In Elmer Keith's book "Sixguns" I got the impression that for those early black powder framed Colts ... Black Powder loads were the way to go .
He also thought fairly highly of the factory 45 Colt black powder load . They were decently powerful for that time and place !

My advice ... Better Safe than Sorry !
Gary

[erikpolcrack]

Please check edit to OP. Comments?

[BigMuddy]

Originally Posted by erikpolcrack

Please check edit to OP. Comments?

What is the “peak” pressure of that load? You can go to the Colt forum and see a long post on this subject. The load you mention “might” be safe. I just wouldn’t.

Dan

[BigMuddy]

[url=https://www.buffaloarms.com/45-colt-250-grain-rnfp-black-p-amobp45lc.this]

Buffalo Arms has loaded BP 45 Colt.

Dan

[Skeet 028]

A first generation Colt? If in good condition I wouldn't even shoot it with BP anymore. I have a 38-40 from 1900...really nice and I will not shoot it with anything; 125 year old gun? Think it would be neat to shoot the old gun. but I'd go buy a new copy of the colt and shoot that...or possibly a Vaquero by Ruger. Keep the history. I shot my old 1799 Pennsylvania rifle one time.. Cleaned it and put it away. I think I will donate it to a museum. I have a 94 year old New Ithaca double that I bought from the fellow that had it made for him...I will no longer shoot it either...one of either 6 or 7. We can't replace these any more

[2152hq]

You have no idea what the psi of the Aquilla loads are.
Just because they are Low Velocity, does not mean they are necessarily
Low PSI.

They could be!, but you don't really know what the psi is.

[DWalt]

Originally Posted by SGT ROCK 11B

You know they recommend people not shoot WWI 1911s. 100+ years ago metallurgy is different now.

Never heard that before and I have fired many, many hot loads through mine. Who is “they?”. I have read that the front ends of WWI-era slides were not heat treated and are known to sometimes crack or fall victim to some other kind of damage. I have personally never experienced that nor have I seen any such damage on early M1911s. Heat treating of slides was added somewhat later, just before WWII. So whatever the slide problem was it did not require an immediate fix.

[Alk8944]

Originally Posted by SGT ROCK 11B

Why take a chance? The late gun writer Mike "Duke" Venturino blew up one of his first generation Colt SAA.

You know they recommend people not shoot WWI 1911s. 100+ years ago metallurgy is different now.

This last is absolute BS! The only issue with the early 1911 guns was frame cracking.

So far as your comment about Venturino, this has no bearing on the question. So he blew up a gun, many people do this, both old and newly manufactured guns. Have you never made a mistake?

P.O. Ackley blew up many guns out of curiosity, and while I was in gunsmithing school many of us did the same thing, for the same reason, to see if some of them were as weak as was popularly believed! And this has nothing to do with OPs question either!

I'm waiting for you to ask "Who is P.O. Ackley".

[Skeet 028]

I'm afraid ther are many people now days who don't know who P. O. Ackley was.. ...I liked the 250 and 257 AIs.

[DWalt]

Originally Posted by Alk8944

This last is absolute BS! The only issue with the early 1911 guns was frame cracking.

So far as your comment about Venturino, this has no bearing on the question. So he blew up a gun, many people do this, both old and newly manufactured guns. Have you never made a mistake?

P.O. Ackley blew up many guns out of curiosity, and while I was in gunsmithing school many of us did the same thing, for the same reason, to see if some of them were as weak as was popularly believed! And this has nothing to do with OPs question either!

I'm waiting for you to ask "Who is P.O. Ackley".

I believe the confusion can be cleared. The very first .45 ACP Colt pistol was the Model 1905. Except the .45 cartridge it used was a low powered version with a 200 grain bullet. The slide was held in place with a metal bar or wedge near the muzzle that went through notches in the slide. The 1911 used a different slide design without the notches. It also used a more powerful cartridge with a 230 grain bullet. That cartridge would fit and fire in the earlier Colt 1905. Unfortunately, the additional recoil would eventually crack the 1905 slide at the bar notches, and that was not reparable. Same situation applied with early Colt auto pistols of similar design chambered for the .38 ACP. Firing the later and more powerful .38 Super cartridges in the older .38 ACP pistols would also crack the slide at the bar notches.

[The Norseman]

A first generation Colt Single Action Army,
blackpowder frame in 45Colt you are surely
blessed. If in shoot able condition darn right
I’d shoot it occasionally.

Here’s what I suggest, find some trustworthy
person that reloads. SW (Shooters World)
has just come out in 2024 with Black (called
Multi-propose Black) it’s new, have him
reload 45Colt for you.

SW Multi-purpose Black is reviewed In the
2024 October Handloader Magazine.
Black is made in America, suitable for black
powder guns, can be reloaded like BP, and
is NOT corrosive like BP. Quite interesting.

You are so lucky. The Best to you and your
Endeavors.

[shil]

Only if I was certain the gun was factory-proofed for smokeless.

[38SPL HV]

Informative post/thread…thanks!