.357 Magnum 110 gr.????

G-Mac · #1 03-07-2011, 08:59 PM

We've all heard that you shouldn't shoot .357 125gr. in a K-frame....cracked forcing cones, etc.

Well, what about 110gr.?

What is this ammo good for? I acquired one box of it in a trade deal and I'm not sure what gun I've got that I should shoot it in without worrying about damage.

Ruger GP-100?????

off road · #2 03-07-2011, 09:16 PM

Light loads are reputed to cause flame cutting. Personally, I subscribe to the light and fast philosophy, so 125 gr is my pick for an SD load. I don't shoot a lot of them however, prefering something milder for practice.

The GP is a lot more gun than a K-frame, so not to worry.

Texas Star · #3 03-07-2011, 09:31 PM

You can fire them safely in the Ruger, but may well need to adjust your sights. The bullets may not have enough penetration for winter clothing or any barriers, or on a really large man or a bear, etc.

Yes, the light bullet will allow gas cutting of the forcing cone, but not as badly as on the K-mags, where the barrel is thin on the lower portion, to allow closing the cylinder.

Unless one expects to need .357 power in a crowded area where penetration may be an issue, as with the Secret Service, I'd use 140 grain or heavier bullets. That is based on conversations with ammo makers while I was writing an article on this subject. It ran in, Gun Week some years ago. I think I was the first to comment in detail in print on this issue. All four ammo companies that I consulted told me basically the same thing. I had access to engineers unavailable to the public, and some asked not to be quoted by name. But their views were very close.

T-Star

RDub · #4 03-07-2011, 10:06 PM

Hi
Well as to 'why', it makes a nice plinker load or perhaps a short barrel load.

If you are referring to the Winchester 357 mag 110gr in a white box, it is only coming out of a 4" barrel at about 1200 fps.
It is not a real hot load, so it will be fine in a K frame.

wheelgunner66 · #5 03-07-2011, 10:17 PM

The issue with the light bullets in a K frame isn't really about how "hot" the load is. The problem is that the light bullets are short- too short to fully be engaged in the barrel before the base of the bullet leaves the cylinder. This allows super-heated gases to blow past the bullet onto the forcing cone and that will cause damage over time.

Dragon88 · #6 03-07-2011, 10:26 PM

It is based on how hot the load is. I could make some mouse fart loads with 110gr and Trail Boss that wouldn't tax even the weakest K frame. Switch that to a max load of H110/W296 and that's quite a different story.

You shouldn't be worried about any standard factory load today, they are all pretty sedate. If you are worried, shoot the box of ammo through the Ruger. You're Ruger will eat up anything you throw at it and ask for more.

btruman · #7 03-09-2011, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDub

Hi
Well as to 'why', it makes a nice plinker load or perhaps a short barrel load.

If you are referring to the Winchester 357 mag 110gr in a white box, it is only coming out of a 4" barrel at about 1200 fps.
It is not a real hot load, so it will be fine in a K frame.

Right. The white box 110 gr JHP isn't anything near like the hot 125 gr loads. My old model 66 has had a bunch through it with no apparent problems. My wife likes 'em for the lower recoil.

Sebago Son · #8 03-09-2011, 01:14 PM

Gordy,

I believe the last .357 duty load for the US Border Patrol was the R-P 110Grn Catalog No. R357M7.

This a low-recoil, low flash load that was reported to be a fairly effective anti-personnel round against unarmored targets.

I found several boxes not long ago while a junk box diving and it shoots very well out of J-Frame Magnums.

Drew

chief38 · #9 03-10-2011, 01:31 PM

Aside from flame cutting, I feel that a heavier bullet is usually better than a lighter one, and they usually shoot more to POA than the lighter ones do. It's 158's for me!

Chief38

38-44HD45 · #10 03-10-2011, 05:02 PM

The .357 light-bullet-flame-cutting-forcing cone-cracking legends have taken on more iterations than Hogzilla! With very few exceptions, factory 110g. .357 loads are loaded much lighter than 125s are. Full-house 125gr. loads have been known to damage forcing cones and topstraps in K-frames and even in N-frames, with sufficient round count. I have NEVER heard a credible report of 110gr. factory loads being known to damage topstraps or forcing cones, despite lots of vocal speculation about short bullets being evil. The gas volume and temperature of hot 125gr. loads is what hurts. If one were to load ANY bullet weight hot enough, with enough rounds fired, it will ultimately damage a gun.

Pointblank2U · #11 03-10-2011, 07:59 PM

The two hottest 125 grain loads to avoid in a K-Frame are the Remington (non Golden Saber) and Federal. The Golden Saber, Corban DPX and Federal Short Barrel are all medium-powered loads. The are very effective for self-defense and won't hurt your gun. I think you can shoot anything in GP-100.

38-44HD45 · #12 03-11-2011, 11:50 AM

Last I chronoed them, which has been a few years ago, Remington 125gr. SJHPs were MUCH hotter than Federals, running about 150 fps. more from a 4" barrel. Cor-Bon 125s are almost as hot as Remingtons. From snubby barrels, the Cor-Bons routinely get 200 fps. more than Federals.

Chrisj357 · #13 03-20-2011, 04:33 PM

After reading this post I had to go get my trusty model 19-3 out to see if the forcing cone shows any signs of damage. It looks pristine, I knew from a while back there was a slight bit of flame cutting in the top strap but very minimal.

I have shot many, many boxes of factory 110 and 125 grain JHP and a 100 or so hand loads that were pretty "hot"

I am very comfortable with the gun, its my primary defense and my "aliby" hunting weapon.

I would like to know how common damage as you are describing is.......I dont shoot the .357 much any more since getting the .500 but I put a box or so through it every once in a while

IAhunter · #14 03-27-2011, 12:00 AM

I shot thousands of rounds of 110's out of an L frame duty gun as an instructor years back. Ours were down loaded to about 1300 or so. They still flame cut. By the time I traded that gun in the Beretta 96D (new issue gun), the top strap was cut some and the forcing cone would have made a good wood rasp.

Tunachaser · #15 03-29-2011, 01:05 PM

What would be a a good, safe, SD/Practice load for the 2" K-Frame?

SWP357 · #16 04-03-2011, 07:05 PM

I just loaded up some 158g Hornady XTP over 12.4g 2400 for shooting at my CCW class this weekend. I haven't chrono'd them but should be about 1100fps out of my 65-2 3", should cause no problems and they shot well.

Fishslayer · #17 04-14-2011, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelgunner66

The issue with the light bullets in a K frame isn't really about how "hot" the load is. The problem is that the light bullets are short- too short to fully be engaged in the barrel before the base of the bullet leaves the cylinder. This allows super-heated gases to blow past the bullet onto the forcing cone and that will cause damage over time.

Fast powder supposedly will get around that. The cone/flame cutting issues have been linked to light bullet/slow powder combos.

But... I don't really run a lot of light boolits. If I'm shooting .357 they generally are 158gr projectiles.

I have a couple boxes of that WWB 110 gr stuff I bought during The Great Ammo Drought. Haven't actually been able to bring myself to shoot it....

38-44HD45 · #18 04-14-2011, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelgunner66

The issue with the light bullets in a K frame isn't really about how "hot" the load is. The problem is that the light bullets are short- too short to fully be engaged in the barrel before the base of the bullet leaves the cylinder. This allows super-heated gases to blow past the bullet onto the forcing cone and that will cause damage over time.

This is a very common myth. Since the barrel/cylinder gap is only between .002" and .007", and even 110 grain bullets are MUCH longer than that, it simply cannot be true. Even if we assume that the passage of the bullet into the forcing cone adds some thousandths of inches, it just won't compute. Not sure how this story got started, but since it defies all physical facts, let us do what we can to kill it now. The issue is much simpler: In the maximum-level 125gr. loads, the sheer volume and pressure of gas is such that the forcing cone is assaulted violently. It is the volume of powder, and the resultant volume and pressure of powder ejecta, that matter. Regardless of bullet weight or length, if one loads it hot enough, damage can ensue. If you choose to run 158gr. bullets as fast as you can, you can wreck forcing cones with them, too. Factory 110 gr. loads are pussycats, so we never hear of forcing cone damage from them, despite the bullets being very short; factories just don't put that much powder behind them.

bmcgilvray · #19 04-14-2011, 04:46 PM

Any factory 110 grain .357 loads I've ever fired seemed tame. The only ones I chronographed were some Blazer loads that barely went over 1100 FPS.

Light bullets have their place in weenie rounds like .380 and 9mm. The capable .357 Magnum can do so much more.

The only myth worse than the havoc wreaked by the 125 grain bullet is the power of the +P .38 Special.

I'm grateful to see the 125 grain load's fearsome reputation called into question, John. I'm sure the hot examples of it can be trouble but so can really hot handloads, no matter the bullet weight.

Fishslayer · #20 04-23-2011, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmcgilvray

I'm grateful to see the 125 grain load's fearsome reputation called into question, John. I'm sure the hot examples of it can be trouble but so can really hot handloads, no matter the bullet weight.

I wasn't there, of course, but my understanding was that the original K frame issues arose from handloaders piling huge charges under 115gr boolits?