Winchester "Black Talon" ammo
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bigt5150
Member
If memory serves, the Black Talon was a hollow point design by Winchester that came out in the mid 90's. It was kind of pre scored or cut such that upon expansion the bullet would not only mushroom but also have little sharp pointed "talons" at the end of the mushroom tips that in theory would cause more damage as it tore through it's target. The bullet was also black but that was just for cosmetic and marketing purposes. The expanded bullet did look rather "devastating" and it wasn't long before the media started hailing this as a cop killer bullet and a menace to society. Winchester received lots of heat for this and eventually restricted it to law enforcement before removing it from production altogether. However, it was just basically given a face lift. It was later introduced in the SXT series of bullets by winchester. It now had the traditional color copper jacket and had a technical name instead of the emotion stirring black talon.
SXT is kind of an acronym for Supreme eXpansion Technology. Although according to some gun magazines it's been kind of joke at Winchester that it also means Same eXact Thing, in reference to the Black Talon. That's the best I can remember for now, I'm sure some of our other more knowledgeable members would have more information. Hopes this helps.
SXT is kind of an acronym for Supreme eXpansion Technology. Although according to some gun magazines it's been kind of joke at Winchester that it also means Same eXact Thing, in reference to the Black Talon. That's the best I can remember for now, I'm sure some of our other more knowledgeable members would have more information. Hopes this helps.
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cmj8591
Member
Winchester still manufactures the “Black Talon” bullet. It markets it to LE as the Ranger “T” series. Of course it is no longer colored black. I don’t believe that this ammo is on the civilian market although I don’t know of anyplace where it is prohibited for non LE to have it. I think that this “Black Talon” concept is more marketing gimmick than anything else and that the new bonded hollow points are just as effective.
Pisgah
Member
In spite of the absurd media hype, the Black Talon was/is nothing more deadly or devastating than any other good expanding pistol bullet. Part of the problem was Winchester's own hype about the "talons" of the expanded jacket material -- pure hokum, but it made for snazzy ad copy (that backfired!).
44forever
Member
Black Talon
My experience was that the Black Talon didn't expand well except at full magnum velocities. I never managed to get the .45 ACP round to expand at all. The Black Talon line was a victim of it's own hype. It was never outlawed but was withdrawn from marketing. The ammo usually brings a small premium on the gun show circuit.
Shortly after it was withdrawn from marketing someone did a spoof hyping the new "Black Rhino" ammo. The mainstream media fell for it hook, line and sinker. They started protesting about it, brought out the same "experts" they had used for Black Talon. They didn't even have the decency to be embarassed when it was shown to be a spoof.
My experience was that the Black Talon didn't expand well except at full magnum velocities. I never managed to get the .45 ACP round to expand at all. The Black Talon line was a victim of it's own hype. It was never outlawed but was withdrawn from marketing. The ammo usually brings a small premium on the gun show circuit.
Shortly after it was withdrawn from marketing someone did a spoof hyping the new "Black Rhino" ammo. The mainstream media fell for it hook, line and sinker. They started protesting about it, brought out the same "experts" they had used for Black Talon. They didn't even have the decency to be embarassed when it was shown to be a spoof.
Andy Taylor
Member
I'd forgoten about the "Black Rhino" incident. Thanks, I needed a chuckle.
As with so many things clouded by politics the "Supreme Xpansion Talon" underwent a cosmetic change AND a name change to become "Supreme Xpansion Technology(or Talon or whatever!)" known simply as the "SXT." In use it was never as wicked as claimed. Good....but not THAT good! I remember seeing spots about it on the moring new shows back when it first hit the market with the anti gun experts of the time describing in great detail what it would do, sometimes even showing an expanded bullet. Anyway after the changes everyone was basically satisfied and the bad press went away. Go figger!
84CJ
US Veteran
I had better luck with the Hornady XTP.
nicky4968
Member
One of the things the media people hyped was the "danger" to surgeons removing the bullet with the "razor sharp" edges. If the wounded person had AIDS, the surgeon, of course, was in danger of cutting their fingers on the expanded round and becoming infected.
smith627
Member
Black Talon Expansion
QUOTE (My experience was that the Black Talon didn't expand well except at full magnum velocities. I never managed to get the .45 ACP round to expand at all.)
I had good luck with expansion handloading the 147gr 9mm with 4.3gr Unique at a little over 900 fps. The shot below was the result of shooting through several gallon jugs of water using Beretta 92FS. I still have some 147gr 9mm and 180gr .357 projectiles I bought at a gun show in 1992.
QUOTE (My experience was that the Black Talon didn't expand well except at full magnum velocities. I never managed to get the .45 ACP round to expand at all.)
I had good luck with expansion handloading the 147gr 9mm with 4.3gr Unique at a little over 900 fps. The shot below was the result of shooting through several gallon jugs of water using Beretta 92FS. I still have some 147gr 9mm and 180gr .357 projectiles I bought at a gun show in 1992.
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speedshooter
Member
never used the dreaded Black Talon, have used the hyrda-shock and like how they shoot and perform if i can ever find them i am going to try Personal Defense rounds
picked up a box and 1/2 of winchester 180grn at a yard sale last weekend
PAID $5.00 FOR THEM hay ill take what i can get
picked up a box and 1/2 of winchester 180grn at a yard sale last weekend
PAID $5.00 FOR THEM hay ill take what i can get
Lightfoot4
Member
I still have a box of them from the early 90s. Didn't they get a lot of bad press when some dude shot up a lawyer's office in California?
The "Black Talons" got a bad rap from the 1993 Long Island Rail Road "Massacre".
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/1996/03/06/1996-03-06_lirr_massacre_suit_ko_d.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/1996/03/06/1996-03-06_lirr_massacre_suit_ko_d.html
Lightfoot4
Member
I was referring to the 101 California Street shootings in which the shooter used Black Talons:
http://www.thegunzone.com/black-talon.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/101_California_Street_shootings
http://www.thegunzone.com/black-talon.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/101_California_Street_shootings
Grayfox
US Veteran
Black Talons have also become something of a collectable. Check out this closed auction. That's a bit over $5 per round. 
I think I've still got a box of 9mm Black Talons around here somewhere. Might be time to cash in.
I think I've still got a box of 9mm Black Talons around here somewhere. Might be time to cash in.
Stophel
Member
Black Talons got their "bad rap" from the menacing name. The news media grabbed it and ran with it. Every TV cop show (STILL) had an episode where somebody was shot with "cop killer black talons"...
Winchester weenied out and discontinued them, at least as they were.
Winchester weenied out and discontinued them, at least as they were.
Erich
Member
And then promptly brought out their "SXT" line, which I've been told stood for "Same eXact Thing".
40Sigma
Member
But it says its only for sale to LEO.. That leaves alot of us out....
smith627
Member
You can buy the Winchester Ranger Talon ammo from SCGUNGUY on the Beretta Forum at a fair price.
Winchester Ranger Talon ammo for sale - Beretta Forum
Winchester Ranger Talon ammo for sale - Beretta Forum
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