I can't remember where I heard it discussed, but potential hearing loss resulting from firing a weapon indoors in a home defense scenario was mentioned in several threads, especially as it relates to calibers like .357 fired from short barreled revolvers.

I have absolutely no experience firing centerfire calibers indoors without at least one layer of hearing protection, and as I was thinking about the possibility of using a .357 2-1/2" 686 for home defense, I was wondering what ideas any of you had on this topic.

I didn't know what part of the forum to post this in, but since it applies (in my case) to a 686, I thought this might be a good place to ask.

Have any of you ever fired a weapon indoors without hearing protection? If something went bump in the night, and I grabbed my 686 and a flashlight, is there anything else I might use to protect my hearing while seeking to protect my family and myself? Would .38's (aside from the reduced muzzle flash) be better from this standpoint?

Assuming I had the time to use it, isn't there some kind of hearing protection that would enable me to hear clearly, yet shut down any muzzle blast? I know that there are electronic "muffs" that work at the range, but would they also enable me to hear more subtle sounds in my home, as I checked out each room?

I, and what's left of my hearing, thank you in advance.

--Andy

Just me, but, If I saved my family's life by stopping an intruder with discharging a firearm, hearing protection would be very low on my immediate list of concerns. My list would concern a very good lawyer, doctor, home owners insurance, and family health.
Good Luck

I have also thought on that same situation. I always thought that a pair of the small ear plugs made for shooting would be good, if you had time in install them. However, they would cut down on your ability to hear.
I have a set of the IMPACT shooters ear muffs. You can still hear other sounds and they only activate with a loud sounds. They actually increase the hearing level.
I cannot imagine turning these on, putting them on, all within a few seconds/minutes. Good idea, but I do not think it is practical.

At first I wondered if this is a serious topic. Guess it is. For what it's worth, I and many others have done a whole lot of shooting with no hearing protection at all, and we're holding up just fine. Shooting a .357 indoors may leave your ears ringing for a while, but they'll recover. Sometimes I wonder how any of us survived without bicycle helmets, seatbelts, biohazard suits and warning labels on everything we touch.

You may be the rare fortunate one, but I know plenty of people with partial hearing loss from firearms. My father is one of them. Many people don't even realize the partial hearing loss unless they've been tested. The ringing may go away, but the damage doesn't.

I wouldn't recommend worrying bout hearing protection in an emergency situation, but I have fired a 357 magnum indoors in an emergency situation. My ears hurt for several hours afterwards. And I was very worried about permanent damage. I've seen switched from a hot 357 mag. to a mild 44 special for slightly less roar for an inside gun. It would probably be smarter to switch to a 38 special.

Here is the voice of experience.

My wife recently bought a 686. She prefers standard pressure .38 special ammo and that is what we load in her bedroom defense pistol. She had a accidental/negligent discharge in our house, a few weeks ago. Thank God, no one was harmed (other than a door jam, drywall and older TV).

The .38 round she fired was subsonic and we could definitely hear just fine immediately after the shot was fired.

Now, the pucker factor for a AD/ND is a 10+, appropriately it will scare the living **** out of you and hopefully teach you a lifelong lesson, without any loss of life or limb.

Since that incident, I have reloaded all of our HD weapons with heavy for caliber rounds that are rated by the manufacturer as being subsonic.

[QUOTE=pinkymingeo;135444128]At first I wondered if this is a serious topic. Guess it is. For what it's worth, I and many others have done a whole lot of shooting with no hearing protection at all, and we're holding up just fine.

Half my hearing is permanently gone from shooting with no hearing protection in years past and no, I'm not holding up just fine. Anyone who shoots on a regular basis without hearing protection will loose hearing to some degree. It's cumulative and permanent.

[quote=Stan O;139156723]

Protection or no, if you're shooting at intruders in your home on a regular basis, it might be time to move.

Or check in to the nearest psych hospital

Note who he puts first. Y'all hate us until you need us ;

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Forum consigliere

Back in 1986 I fired my 357 Python in the line of duty, inside a House. If I had hearing protection on, I would be dead today!! My ears rang for nearly 3 hrs as I recall. I should also add the my ears hurt like hell also and communication was very hard to.

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De Oppresso Liber Μολὼν λαβέ

Regarding hearing and gunfire...
I was involved in one incident in close quaters.
Inside a patrol car...We were transporting a unknown thug...uncuffed 1st mistake.
This was before cages and plexiglass screens..partner in
the backseat with the thug on the way to jail.

He bows up and the fight starts..he gets my partners gun...
Mod 29 with full house mags.
By the time I get the car stopped(middle of the freeway) and get in the fight he (they) snap off two rounds right through the roof.

When the smoke cleared and the supervisors and Homicide detectives showed up I thought they were all mimes.

LMAO !!! isn't that the truth

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De Oppresso Liber Μολὼν λαβέ

If you have the time and opportunity, donning electronic ear-pro can be a huge advantage because they amplify low level sounds as well as attenuate loud sounds.

But "if" is a big word, which is why I am in the process of spec'ing out an SBR AR15 with a suppressor.

You are certainly correct to put a good lawyer on your list of concerns. However, I really doubt that your home owners insurance carrier will be of any value to you in a deliberate, non-accidental deadly force incident.

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195th Session FBINA

I'm not an audiologist, but as a lifelong tinnitus sufferer and someone who was at one time responsible for buying safety equipment in a manufacturing setting, I've come across several bits of information that it sounds like some people on this thread might be interested in.

Exposure to something as loud as gunfire results in immediate and permanent hearing damage -- even just once, and whether or not you consciously heard it at the time. It may be a level of damage you don't really notice, but it will be there to add up with all the other little losses you don't notice until one day, you realize you have a problem. This is never reversible.

Temporary ringing in the ears after an exposure (gunfire, rock concert, whatever) alerts you that permanent damage of some level has been done. If you're lucky, the ringing will eventually stop; consider yourself warned and take care to avoid it happening again.

Repetitive exposure to very loud sounds that may not immediately bother you (like lawnmowers, leafblowers, etc) without hearing protection will, over time, result in noticeable hearing loss. It can take years, but it will happen.

If you have tinnitus, it is important to accept it as peacefully as you can and just get on with your life. If you allow yourself to get upset over it, this will cause central nervous system excitation that will actually make the ringing worse, creating a truly vicious cycle.

In my case, I notice that watching TV can greatly aggravate the ringing, especially certain frequencies or crowd-type noise. While my hearing is quite serviceable for day-to-day living (except when the ringing gets so loud that I actually can't hear some real-world sounds over it), I do have some difficulty with catching dialogue on TV. I found that I would turn up the volume to catch the spoken bits better, but that the louder noise level would set off much worse ringing. My solution is to watch TV with closed-captioning on most of the time, with the volume lower than normal (I turn it up for others when I am watching with company).

So, that all said, I'm in the same boat with the rest of you as far has having the bedside handgun and being faced with what to do if there's an intruder in the middle of the night. While I would love to be able to protect my ears before firing, the time taken for that would be time taken away from getting adequately prepared to deal with the worst situation in my life. If that time ever comes for me, I'll focus on getting out of the situation alive first, and deal with the hearing issues later. And there will definitely BE hearing issues, but at least I'll be there to have them.

Best luck to everyone.

I just got my Caldwell electronic muffs. I know, they're not as cool or fashionable as the Dillon version that costs over six times as much, but they DO amplify low volume sounds inside the house. I'll be taking them to the range shortly to see how they work with gunfire. I don't see how anything bad can come out of this. These are inexpensive enough that you can buy a dedicated set just to keep next to your home defense firearm of choice. If you hear the loud crash in the middle of the night, grabbing your ears and turning them on would take only a few seconds and would be well worth the effort in terms of any amplified voice and/or protection against the sounds of gunfire. If you are in a situation where you literally do not have those seconds to spare, then you don't grab them. Simple as that. And your ruptured ear drums are not going to make your shooting any more justifiable to the D.A.

Dave Sinko

A long time ago, I fired 2 shots in a 14 x 16 room from a Model 19 2 1/2" using WW .357 145 grain Silvertips. I had no sensation of sound, recoil or muzzle flash (nighttime). For a second I wasn't even sure the gun had fired. My wife (in the room) spoke to me a few seconds later and I could hear her as though no shooting had occurred.

I DO have hearing loss - and a fairly bad case in the upper ranges. Not sure how much the above incident caused/agravated the situation. My professional and personal lives have both included a lot of noise. I DIDN"T have any immediate loss after the incident.

I wouldn't have put on muffs-plugs- etc ... if they had been laying on top of the 19. I'd NEVER wear plugs in bed as I feel the need to hear sounds in the night (although my wife does wear them).

+1

You all need to purchase special insurance thru the NRA. The lawyers are then free.

I'd just drop it down to 38 specials +P to protect the ears. At 7 yrds or less the penetration is fine. You not shooting thru car doors in the house are you?
Add flashlights phone and indoor room lighting to aid in your home protection list. A dog or electronic alarm is a big plus too.

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NRA Benefactor Member

I wouldn't really worry about it. My opinion is that you really wouldn't want anything to diminish your ability to hear in your home. If you are "clearing" your home then you need to have all of your senses available just in case. Also I have a co-worker that worked in a "poker room" as a security officer and got into a "shootout" with a armed robber. Needless to say it didn't fair to well for the robber as he was taken out with well placed .357 sig rounds. I distinctly remember him saying that he never heard a round that he fired and he even reloaded during the fight.

Hearing protection would be very low or not even a priority on my list, after being awakened at 2 in the morning by the sound of breaking glass or the dog barking.

Being groggy from sleeping and trying to get your bearing, while grabbing your sidearm and flashlight is going to be difficult enough, until you wake up, let alone trying to don a set of hearing protection and turning them on.

My hearing takes 2nd place to my family in that situation.

To me it wouldn't be that important. I don't think you'll be routinely shooting intruders in your home, or at least I hope not, so a one time ordeal shouldn't be a big problem.

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386NG, M&P R8, M&P40c, 460 XVR

Pinky, I also wondered if this was a serious topic. I was gonna treat it NOT SO, and was gonna add the need for shooting glasses, proper weaver stance, possibly shooting gloves, a two handed hold, correct breathing, sight alignment, and finally a cleaning recommendation that wont mar the finish on the weapon after the shooting. In summation, an A OK from the instructor before you take the shot, and an inquiry from the perp as to what political party he/she supports.
But, since it is a serious thread, I would not worry about the ear protection
Good Luck

Most of the time you will suffer auditory exclusion during your shot. Unless you plan weekly shootouts in your home don't worry about it.

If time is available quality electronic muffs are a valuable tool for detecting sounds in your home. As mentioned in the thread above you need to allow several seconds to don them and turn them on. If you never used a pair, imagine hearing what your dog hears when they are turned to the higher sensitivity. They are very useful in building searches as you can hear the slightest sounds made by the opponent that you would never hear with your normal hearing.

I was just thinking about this the other night....my night stand gun is usually my S&W Chief's Special, and usually loaded with +P Gold Dots or Hornady CD....I do have some foam ear plugs in the drawer...the type with the little plastic handles on them....but I think that I would rather not muffle my sense of hearing at all, with a BG busting in....the Surefire and the revolver would be poking around trying to see who I had to take care of....if the hearing goes....oh well....at least would be alive to talk about it.

Having suffered hearing loss and having titinitus (ringing in the ear) I can say the blowhards who say you hear NOTHING due to stress and this will protect you are wrong.

Prolonged exposure to sudden exposure can PERMANENTLY cause hearing loss.

Use LOWER Decibel ammunition which means lower velocity.

BIG and SLOW is better for indoors in my opinion or small slow and weak.

For urban encournters a 32 ACP might not be bad. Not too loud and not too penetrating, however it's not too lethal....

Get a Walther P22 and load it up with CCI Segmented Hollow points 22 LR. These break into 3 segments on impact..If you hit the perp with 10 rounds of this that should do the job and you probably will not harm your ears in the process...hope this helps...

Or you could buy a crossbow!!

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James Redfield
LM #497

Why not use a good .38 spl +P round like the Speer SB which will keep the bullet subsonic instead of a full house 357 which is probably overkill in most inside situations. Less hearing damage and less chance of over penetration.

Forget about it. If the day ever comes when you face a HD/SD situation and have to use a weapon, you better hope that the only consequence you have to deal with is that your ears may ring for a little while.

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<><

The time spent donning ear muffs or plugs would be better spent dialing 911 nasd getting to a safe room.

The odds are greater that you'll win the lottery once within your lifetime than ever having to discharge your weapon inside your home in SD. I'd worry about how you're gonna spend the money before I'd worry about damaging you hearing.

By some of your replies, I guess I might have gone a little over the top by mentioning the need for or use of hearing protection in a defensive situation.

At least two posters in the threads that I mentioned at the start of this thread claimed to have lost a significant part of their hearing, and one of them claims to have a constant ringing in his ears which is so bad that he can't sleep...and these posters claimed that these symptoms resulted from exposure to just a few rounds of .357 being lit off in a shooting range setting.

And so the reason for my starting this thread.

And pinkymingeo, I also hate warning labels, restrictive devices, and other impositions on my freedoms. I've never used a bicycle helmet and I probably never will. And when I see a bunch of bicycle riders wearing their spandex knickers and helmets going down the road, it brings a smile to my face, wondering if they are really having fun, or are their lives so immersed in fear that the riding experience is more work than play? If it weren't for the laws down here, I wouldn't wear a helmet on my motorcycle either.

And 32sgeot, thanks for brightening up my day! I'm not sure about assuming the Weaver stance, but as a civilian exercising my right to defend my family and self, I'm sure I wouldn't wait for someone to give me the green light to do so.

I didn't mean for this post to suggest yet one more reason for possible hesitation in using our guns to protect ourselves...just wanted to know if any of you have had any experience or prior thoughts about the topic.

So for those of you that took this post seriously, thanks. And for the rest of you, thanks also...I tend to worry about stuff, and sometimes have difficulty separating those things that need concern from those that need to be put aside.

There was an article in one of the gun rags (Guns & Ammo?) a few years back where the author went through an incredible "pre-confrontation" prep.

He got his two sons out of bed and behind him in his bedroom, donned a Kelvar vest, shooting glasses, and hearing protection. Oh yeah, I think he had to retrieve a pump shotgun and a handgun. (Can't have them too accessible with the young boys in the house). I don't recall if he gave the amount of time this all took, but it was presented totally seriously, not tongue in cheek at all.

I suppose there are situations where there may be time for all that, but I would worry about being caught with my hands occupied putting on the vest or the like.

I could see the value in putting on some of the Peltor-type ear protection, but having a gun loaded and ready to go (and within reach!) is more than enough to worry about. Where the ear protection is, does it have good batteries, etc., may be just too much. And all that other stuff (Kelvar vest) seems like someone is living in a dream world.

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You're shy a few manners.

Ok, I know you’re honestly concerned about it, but you won’t be if it ever does happen. In fact, your autonomic survival skills will kick in resulting in sharp tunnel vision with increased audio acuity to match. The very last thing you would want is to impede those motor and sensory attributes in a time of life or death.

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Dan Ortego ~

SOB,

I think that it's a perfectly reasonable question. My answer is, keep a pair of electronic ears available, and if you have time, you'll put them on. If you don't, you won't. That's how it will work out naturally with sane people, so the only cost of keeping the ears available is a small amount of money, or maybe not even that, if you already have them. Ears that amplify sounds are nothing but an advantage, if you have time to put them on.

If you don't have time to put them on, don't worry about it. If you have to shoot, temporary (or even permanent) hearing loss is not as important as the reason you were shooting.

It's a no-brainer. Put them by your bed and check the batteries regularly.

It is a very serious consideration, and not something to joke about. If you don't believe me, go to hyperacusis.net, and read the overview. Hyperacusis is a life changing acute sensitivity to sound which is painful & incurable. It can come on from prolonged exposure to loud noise, or from one loud exposure, yes, one.

Compared to the eye, we are in the dark ages when it comes to treating ear conditions. It is not worth the risk, believe me. My .357 is loaded with .38 specials for home defense. Using .357 or .44 Mags in the house or car is needlessly risking hearing damage and overpenetration, killing a family member or a neighbor. I know a security guard in an apt. building who is only allowed to use .38's in his .357 for these same reasons. It's real.

If you are concerned, leave any pair of muffs near the gun. They go on in seconds, and it's easy to slide one side back off of your ear part way, and hear normally if you need to. You can slide it all the way back on or not, as the situation dictates. Obviously, you wouldn't have time in every situation, but in many or most, you would.

JP

I do take your post seriously and have given this subject some thought over the years.

I don't doubt the posters who have hearing loss from firing a .357 without protection. However, a range scenario is different than the home. I don't live in a cinder block shanty devoid of carpet, furnishings and wall coverings. All that stuff absorbs sound to a certain degree and makes it much less devastating on the hearing. I have been inside a home, in fact, in the room, when a .45acp round went off. Granted, it was sub-sonic unlike a .357, but it was not nearly as loud as many would expect. My hearing was not affected to any extent, either short term or these many years later.

Personally, I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

You could always use a pump shotgun and "rack it" to lock and load a shell. The sound of that may allow you never to shot the gun and risk hearing loss. A pump is one of the best home defense weapons out there. All in all, that concern would be the last thing on my mind in that situation.

I fired a magazine of .45ACP indoors. My ears still ring 30+ years later.

I like this, now:

As an Leo of 28 yrs, 20 in Harlem NY, when the situation arises to take care of business, it will play itself out. Too much thought is a hinderance.
Be safe and look after the family

If you have time to put on the electronic muffs, ok. If not you have to weigh the risk. The consequences of not using them is a risk of hearing loss. The risk of taking too much time to hunt them up is much higher. I imagine unless you wear glasses you won't be using eye protection either. Range rules get less important when fighting for your life.

Auditory exclusion is a reality. I had occasion to fire a .223 outdoors while someone else was firing a 7.62X54R and I heard 2 of his 5 and none of my 3 shots. (It's not a temporary deafness, I did hear my rifle cycle, but not fire.) No tinnitus, no hearing loss. Your results may vary.

On the other hand, I made the mistake of letting off a .357 once on the outdoor range with loose earplugs and my ears rang for over a day. The stress responce seems to cause that difference in outcome.

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Romans 13:3 & 4

I almost hate to admit this, but I've read so many accounts of police officers suffering permanent hearing damage from shooting indoors that I went from a .357 magnum revolver to a .45 Colt to a .40 S&W semi-auto as a bedside gun.

There's NO WAY I'd have it together enough to put on hearing protection.

I'd also have to be in some pretty damn serious danger to shoot anyone. Last article I read (Ayoob) about a "good" self-defense shooting, the good guy, though exonerated in civil & criminal courts, was still out $60,000 in court costs. I might still be alive, but I'd eventually die miserable and broke.

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NRA Lifetime Member

XFuzz

That is really funny!

Tom

I retired my 357 for just this reason. A great round, but not something I want to grab off the night stand at 3 AM. It hurts outside, I can imagine what the noise would be like in a confined area, not to mention muzzle blast.

As a former Tanker in the Army, I’m an expert in hearing damage. Despite the fact that I was obsessed with hearing protection, occasionally some jerk would fire off a 105mm after the green flag was up! I wanted to strangle the dumb-*** safety officer in the tower, but the damage was already done, and more than once! Since I was a master gunner, my exposure was likely ten-times that of an average tanker and I’m surprised I can hear at all.

These days, I use hearing protection all the time, even when I use the kitchen blender, drill motor, or vacuum. I can’t stand loud noises and certain frequencies really cause me stress. Still, I would not want to use hearing protection when something goes bump in the night. My 300-dollar electronic Sordins are great (told you I was obsessed) but they color your ‘hearing’ depth perception. In my view, it’s absolutely imperative to know directionality of sound in a home defense scenario, so I’m not sure it’s a good idea.

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Dan Ortego ~

I have a S&W 640 but I have no plans to ever load/fire magnum ammo - gave that up a long time ago. I simply wanted the extra margin of build for safety. I also picked up a Model 351PD simply to have a vapor-weight for hot summer days of CC. Frankly, I wrongly assumed I could load .22 LR in the darn thing' back when I purchased it. As for 3:00 a.m. shoot-outs' I plan to add a suppressor option as some point.

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Dan Ortego ~

We all agree a little hearing loss is better than a lot of life lost, and the use of your hearing in such a situation is key. The thing is, you can prepare beforehand. I have heard of this most related to the .357. Use .38's if all you have is a .357 or use a .45 or .44special. It will all hurt you, but some may take a little longer. There are some people who have disorders where any load noise can cause pain, and those people probably should make a point of using hearing protection in all situations. It would be pretty bad if you shot at someone breaking in, debilitated yourself, leaving them in control.

If some one breaks in and I'm home there will be a Sig 40 or a 27 loaded with 38 Police +P's. I will not take time to locate or put on hearing protection, the perp(s) will need to have their affairs in order.

I've shot most of my life, starting at 8 years of age. I fired thousands of 22 LR in rifles and and a 4 5/8 Ruger when young. I shot a Colt 1911 on a pistol team. No protection. Early in in my 20's when shooting High power rifles I started wearing muffs and with pistols. About this time my dad's hearing was going, he fired untold amounts of 30-06 and his favorite upclose gun was a Thompson in WW2, seeing what was happening to dad really made up my mind to use muffs when using the chain saw and any type of target shooting. When I was a deputy I used to squirrel hunt with my 4" Python and 38 wad cutters. Head shots only. One day I got real smart and decided to use 357's to hunt to help get ready for qualifications. I used a tree for a rest on the first shot. No protection. I remember it well, the tree was not round, it was a half moon curve. The blast from the 357 hurt both ears and there was severe pain. From that moment on in 1980 my tenninitis grew louder. That is one shot I want back. Oneshot.... I had my hearing tested 3 weeks ago. It is not quite yet degraded enough to get hearing aides, but real close. I do hear LOUD RINGING all the time. I highly recomend hearing protection for use around loud noise, I bought my dad and brother muffs. I've taught my kids and wife to shoot, no one pulls a trigger on targets without protection. Since 1980, I've fired 1000's of rifle rounds, shot on skeet and trap teams, I've shot competitively in sporting clays. I wore muffs 100% of the time, I don't think I've lost any more hearing since the shot with the Python. But; I can't hear deer walking in leaves 30 yards away, I struggle to hear my mild voiced wife at times, I have to ask some folks to speak louder.

I hear a crash in my house at 2 AM, quick load the gun, find the key and unlock the gun, get the earmuffs, out, turn them on, put them on then look up and see if the intruder has raped your wife yet? If you take a shot, the odds are you won't hear it, just like when you are concentrating on a shot at a deer at sun up.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Good topic. I do keep a set of plugs next to my HD gun, but I doubt I would remember to grab them and put them on.
Hearing loss from shooting without protection is a serious issue and I have the 'crickets' to prove it. That's ringing of the ears and it NEVER goes away, never. In a HD situation, you probably won't remember firing, but your ears will. I'm not sure which would worse, losing hearing from firing in a closed room, after the first round, and hope it will come back or losing your hearing from plugs IF you had the time to put them in.
I guess it boils down to both time and choice.