Or, you can get a 649-3 357 mag, does everything the other guns do and also has the single action option.

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Sure you did

Bud's gun shop has police trade in S&W model 10's, 4" barrel, 6 shot, for $269 with free shipping. They had them in stock yesterday. They do sell out quickly, but they get more in, in a few weeks at the most.
This is the way to go.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...sp+Square+Butt

There are plugs made which fill the hole where the lock was, not a real cosmetic issue. I personally have no problem with the lock, I have a model 60 snubby with 2500 rounds fired, no problem. I just never lock the lock.

I have been fond of 640's and 649's , I definitely agree with the advice that says stay with steel frames, they aren't all that heavy. I also agree with your assessment of buying a .357 but only shooting .38 special in it. If you do go with an older K frame, be careful, model 10's and model 15's, revolvers which were made for .38 special, in my experience do not handle 38+P very well, I have had issues with screws loosening up when shooting a diet of +P, with the older revolvers.
Final advice, don't believe advice that says snubs are not accurate, it is a matter of the shooter putting the time in and using proper technique, they can be quite accurate, beyond 25 yards even. But you have to practice.
And the good news there is, it is really fun!

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Ed

Thank you, Joe. I'll give them a look-see,

Thank you, MShamburger

Howdy:

IMHO-the "obvious" choice for a home defense revolver is the S&W Pro Series 640 (Model 640 SKU #: 178044) adorned with CT-grips!! This is an ideal weapon for your daughter/wife. Double action ONLY- Barrel 2.125-SIGHTS-"Hammerless" (hammer covered by frame) thus no breathe on trigger discharges when under stress! THE CHOICE!!

Tough Guy Levi
NRA Certified Pistol Inst.
NRA Range Safety Office
Orange, CA

I'm age 80 my wife is 70. I'm 5'8",164# and my wife is 5'6", 118#. That's our physical background.
We own the three revolvers listed above. The 642ct & 640 are 5 shot J-frames with <2" barrels and the 686+ is a 7 shot w/4" barrel. We use only .38 caliber ammunition for both practice & carry.
The 642 is "never" pleasant to shoot and two cylinders (10 shots) is enough for either of us. The 640 eats a box of 50 shared by the two of us and is my daily carry gun. With the 686 we can fire 50-100 rounds each with no real problems.
Accuracy improves going "up-the-line" from the 642>640>686. Weight and barrel length very-much improve our accuracy. (Both the 640 & 686 can handle .357 ammunition but we don't enjoy them. I prefer using the .357 in my Marlin 1884C lever action.)

Bottom line: 686-4"= house gun, 640-2"=carry, 642ct-2"=backup carry and nightstand backup.

I would recommend the 640 over the 642 for your stated use and users. I have a 642CT and it is nicely light to carry and recoils nicely (alot), and deadly accurate with laser. So I think you should consider two important things in making your selection (especially for your intended users):

1. Consider having single/double action capability (although rules out these two). Sometimes in a stressful situation, pulling double action will throw your point of aim WAY off. Single action is easier to control.

2. Strongly consider a laser, i.e., Crimson Trace Grips w/light. In the dark and/or stressful situation, you KNOW where your bullet is headed with the little red pointer. The CT grips are rubber, a little bigger and can better absorb recoil - killing two or three birds with one stone.

While you can certainly find pre-lock S&Ws that have been well-maintained and save some money that way, you're right, it takes a little extra searching sometimes to find a good one.

But there is a current version of the 640 that to the best of my knowledge does not have the lock, the 640 Pro:

Product: Model 640

It's cut for the aforementioned moon clips, and has three dot night sights. About the best defensive J-frame set-up S&W has made in my opinion.

Both the 642 and 442 have lock and no-lock options; the 640 Pro and 442 Moon Clip have been shipping with no locks unless S&W has suddenly changed that.

Do be on your guard if you decide to purchase face-to-face with individuals met online.

The Ruger SP101 does have its own version of the internal lock, but it's a different mechanism and relatively hidden from view. The gun has a well-earned loyal following and I've never encountered serious complaints about Ruger's approach to the lock or the revolver in general. I would definitely keep it on the list of possible purchases -- it's a good one. The trigger pull tends to be not quite as smooth as a S&W, but time or a good gunsmith can easily remedy that, and overall they're a bit blockier and heavier compared to the J-frames. In return you get a tough, durable and reliable shooter that absorbs a lot of recoil.

Good question on why someone would select .38 over .357 in the same model when, according to Ruger's website, weight, dimension and price are all the same.

It's puzzling and all I can imagine is: a) some might feel that the slightly shorter .38 cylinder yields better overall balance in the SP101; or b) they subscribe to the controversial notion that bullet jump from shooting .38 out of a .357 cylinder may adversely affect accuracy.

The bullet jump controversy. | Revolvers, Ammunition | GrantCunningham.com

The merest wisp of blue loctite (not red or green) on the screws should fix that.

What passes for +P these days was standard P back when the old K-frames were being made -- they're fine shooting today's stuff.

Stay-at-home house guns:
Benelli Shotguns | Benelli M2 Tactical
or
Tactical Shotguns - Remington Tactical Shotguns

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60-10,640-1,G30,G41MOS,1911

My wife carries the Model 60 - perfect size and weight for her. Easy to conceal and fun to shoot.

Oh, Hapworth, thank you. She's gorgeous! I'm emailing the customer service department just to double check on the internal lock situation.

To be frank, I'm scared of the idea of buying used. #1, Meeting a stranger who has a gun makes me nervous; and #2 I don't have the experience to know if what I'm getting is a good deal. I have one cousin who is knowledgeable, but he lives in Baker (about 4 hours away).

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me with this.

Suzie

The 442 is soooo not pretty, IMO. I shouldn't be so superficial, but if it's not pretty, I'm not going to be inspired to practice with it. I'm not going to be in a situation where I have to worry about light glinting off the surface. Any time I'd need to use it, the wanna-be-assailant would already know where I am.

The 642CT really has my eye, but I'm scared of that aluminum frame. If I understood the catalog correctly, I can buy a CT grip later and add it to a stainless steel.

What does "no breathe on trigger discharge" mean?

Thanks,
Suzie

You're right, Hapworth!!!! Jennie Bergeron in Customer Service confirmed for me that the 640Pro does not have the internal lock. Thank you so much! Now if I could get that CT grip in pink, I would be one happy shooter.

I have a 642 and 640 and other j frames. My wife doesn't like any of them. I have tried to get her interested in a revolver to no avail. She loves her 380s and 9mms She can shoot any gun I own well... She just doesnt like them. My answer to you is let her pick the "gun" she is most comfortable with. It may not even be a S&W. Mine carries a sig P238 or a colt 380 pocket lite or a Bersa Thunder 380. Go figure? But let them shoot what they like. I personally don't like the Sig 238. I can't hit anything with it... She loves it. She really likes my junkiest S&W the 910. But not as a carry, as a house gun. It's a real beater and she loves to take it to the range.

** Update: I just added the 649-3 I picked up last week. WE took it to the range last night and I loved it. The trigger in DA was very smooth. maybe because it is a 12 year old gun that has been broken in. MY wife tried it and was pleasantly surprised how smooth and easy it was to shoot even in DA. SO there are alsway exceptions.

Also to answer Suzzie Homemaker's question about grips: All J frame round butt grips will fit any caliber that is also a round but. Same goes for square butts.
The only exception is some very early 1950-1953 Baby Chief Special grips that were a little smaller.

640 PRO with SW RB Combat Stocks



640 Pro with CT grips


642


649-3 357 magnum Double or Single Action

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

The Ruger SP101s do not have an internal lock.

Some folks prefer a 38 Special versus a 357. Don't understand the reasoning as I think the 357 gives more versatility by giving the choice to shoot 38 Special, +P, or 357 Magnum. Either the 2.25" or 3" barrel are great choices. For now, I prefer the 2.25" barrel for CCW.

IMO, the SP101s are great shooters, although not the lightest, but easy to carry in a good inside (the)-waist-band (IWB) holster (I prefer a DeSantis IWB holster), in a fanny pack, backpack, purse, etc. The original grips are easy to have a firm purchase (easy to hold), the grip panels can be changed, and Crimson Trace or Hogue mono grips can be easily installed.

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USAF Retired

Apologies -- you are absolutely correct: the SP101 does not have an internal lock. Several other Ruger handguns do, but not the SP101. Thank you for the correction.

Completely agreed on the .357 capability option; I don't like .357 in a small frame revolver (although the heft of the SP101 certainly helps compared to an Airweight, or worse, and Airlite), but having the .357/.38 capability is a no-brainer for flexibility's sake.

My pleasure for any and all assistance. Lotta good folk on this forum who are here primarily to gain and share knowledge, when not drooling over all the revolver pictures.

Plenty of purchasers do face-to-face deals with strangers met through online ads and don't have any problems arise. I avoid it out of an abundance of caution. As you rightly point out, you're meeting someone you don't know, generally at an outdoors location like a parking lot because you can't really do a gun deal in Starbucks; they at minimum have one gun on them, and they know you are carrying likely at least a few hundred in cash. I consider that a recipe for trouble. I might consider it if the seller and I agreed to meet, discuss and test fire at a local shooting range where I know the employees and have gotten their okay to do the deal there.

As for purchasing used, yes, there's a learning curve. A little research here and elsewhere online, and some time spent with new and older guns goes a long way to getting comfortable assessing the condition of a potential purchase, but not everyone's interested in that degree of involvement, and there's nothing wrong with that. For basic purchasing, a little well selected knowledge is all you need.

And don't forget, new revolvers need to be looked over before purchasing, too; not everything leaves the factory in perfect shape -- and that's a bit of an understatement.

With handguns owned for defensive purposes, function will always follow form for me. I'll admit, though, I go to extra lengths sometimes to have my aesthetic sensibilities met in a piece that also does the job I need it to. Point being, within reason there's nothing wrong with wanting your gun to please your eye.

Aluminum has its advantages and disadvantages; I wouldn't worry too greatly about it if it's in the exact gun you want -- it has been around along time in handgun applications and is well proven. Nonetheless, steel -- so long as it doesn't make the piece too cumbersome to carry -- is preferred for durability and recoil absorption.

With an enclosed hammer, like on the 640 Pro and 642 you're considering, there's no single-action capability (whereas having an exposed hammer allows you to cock the gun). Single action requires less pressure to fire compared to double action, hence "breath on trigger discharge" in reference to single action firing. (It isn't quite that terrifyingly easy to ignite, unless the gun has been modified or isn't working properly.)

Glad to have the "no lock" officially confirmed. Thank you. Several members have purchased the 640 Pro and reported no internal lock, but for whatever reason S&W doesn't advertise it as such.

As for grips: Pink Laser Sight for Smith & Wesson J Frame | Official Crimson Trace

Dumb question: if a grip will fit a 38, it will also fit a 357 as long as they are both "J" frames?

I've seen pictures of the CT in pink on a 38, I didn't know it would fit on the 357.

That would be so sweeeet!

Thank you for the reassurance about the aluminum. It would be faster to buy an in-stock 642CT than wait on a 640Pro to be ordered for me.

Suppose I am firing and for some reason I get a dud round that does not fire. Can I just pull the trigger again and rotate the cylinder to the next round? Or do I have to open the cylinder and remove that bad round?

Thank you so much for spending so much time helping me. I really appreciate it.

Oh. I see. Thank you.

Oh, great!

If I order thru a local store, say TP Outdoors because they have a shooting range, is the manager's word that it is in good order enuf or should I have a gunsmith look at it, too?

If I'm going to spend $1k on the 640Pro and CT grip, maybe the manager would even test fire it for me???

Should work fine, although it never hurts to double-check with the company. Between a .38 and a .357 built on the same frame, generally the only discernible size difference is the length of the cylinder -- the .357 being a bit longer to accommodate the longer shells.

The 642CT would serve you well. You give up a bit of weight and long-run durability to the steel, and moon clips and night sights; the latter two you can always have done later if you desire.

You're welcome; happy to assist.

On the chance of a dud in a self-defense situation, keep firing until the threat is stopped or you need to reload. There's the chance that if it's what they call a "squib" (the primer ignited but not the powder), the primer might have enough kick to put the bullet in the barrel, plugging it. A second shot with a functioning round will indeed put one bullet behind another and you're likely to get what is affectionately referred to as a "ka-boom", almost assuredly wrecking the revolver but hopefully not you.

Unpleasant, to be sure, but in a self-defense situation I would argue it's worth risking because you're already in danger, presumably mortal or you shouldn't be shooting in the first place. So if I were to get a squib and had to risk a ka-boom to keep firing at a threat, I would. Everyone has to come to their own conclusions on these kinds of things, and perhaps others will chime in with theirs.

At the range, if you fire on a live round and it's a dud: stop everything; take your finger off the trigger but stay on target and continue to hold the gun as if you were firing; wait at least 10 seconds with the gun still pointed in a safe direction down the lane as if you expected it to fire; after this wait, place the gun on the rest still pointing down range and seek the assistance of the range officer.

Here's why: rarely but possibly you get a "slow-burner", that is, the primer has ignited the powder, but the powder takes several seconds to properly ignite and launch the bullet.

For the record, I've never had one of these, never seen one of them or known anyone who has had or seen one -- but if there is one lesson that absolutely must be ingrained and inform every action you take when handling guns: safety above all else.

Suzie Homemaker as has already been pointed out, the Ruger SP101 is lock free. You are correct, I wouldn't have considered buying one were it not.

I understand your reasoning for wanting a brand new revolver. For new production I recommend the Ruger SP101 in 357, for all the reasons previously stated.

I like 3 inch barrels for their full length ejector rods. The full length ejector rod makes the positive ejection of spent casings easier.

As it is unlikely that you would need to reload in most self defense scenarios, I would not hesitate to buy the 2.5 inch either. I'd just practice giving it a firm rap to eject the empties.

I would also advise you to practice and become proficient in hitting your target using the "iron sights" on the revolver before trying to use lasers. In my experience with new/inexperienced shooters, lasers sometimes create more problems than they correct. They aren't cheap either.

IIRC Hogue makes pink rubber grips for both the Ruger and the J-frame. A female detective I work with has them on her J-frame. They match her pink handcuffs.

Good luck! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Depends on the qualifications and integrity of the manager. If it's someone you know to be well-informed on revolvers, and have a working relationship with such that they're looking out for your best interests, then yes I'd trust their word.

Short of that, though, I think you're best off keeping your own counsel.

At minimum, be friendly but tell the manager you're going to inspect the piece before you sign-off and pay for it. First check the revolver and confirm that all chambers are empty. Bring at least a flashlight and perhaps a magnifying glass or reading glasses, and visually inspect it from every angle. It should be factory fresh and free of any blemishes or handling marks. It will have been test-fired at the factory and sometimes there's a little powder residue; this is normal.

With new S&W revolvers, and especially J-frames, the primary thing to look for is any cracks where the barrel is mated to the frame, especially on the underside; on the off chance there is a problem from the factory, this is the likeliest one. Second likeliest would be a canted barrel, meaning the barrel isn't perfectly aligned with the frame. If you look at the top of the revolver from directly overhead, you can see if the barrel's in true or not.

Run a search here and you will find pictures of these problems. Either would be reason to let the manager know S&W sent a bad one and it needs to go back. Do not pay or take possession.

Otherwise, again making sure the revolver is unloaded and pointed in a safe direction, dry fire it through at least one full cycle and preferably a few to assess if it's functioning properly.

Following are two links -- one brief, one more involved -- on pre-purchase revolver checks. They're intended for used revolver buying, but are informative in general.

Revolver Checkout Procedure

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6Fh...hl=en_US&pli=1

Finally, make sure you're getting the factory box, paperwork (owner's manual, warranty card, etc.), bicycle lock, and empty shell in an envelope (proof of factory test-fire).

If all that checks out, you're good to go.

I have owned a Model 640 longer than I care to remember. I put a full Hougue grip for control and comfort. Great firearm and dependable! I mainly carry it as a backup to my .45 semi auto because we all know Murphy's law when you might really need the Auto to perform. For home defense I like a shotgun with a pistol grip and legal short barrel.
Stays next to my bed and the click, click will most likely send the intruder running.

To Suzie Homemaker, The Critical defense ammo mentioned by another member, is as good as you are going to get as far as minimal recoil. my 75 year old mother has a ruger LCR 38 Special, and shot a score good enough she could be a cop. I have carried a gun every day since 1988. I have been a private Security Officer since 1990. The Ruger LCR has a plastic frame, so it is lighter than a 642. Untill 2006, I could only Carry a revolver in 38 Special. A 4 inch in uniform, and a snub nose in plain clothes. Alot of my work was indoors, and the critical defense ammo is not as loud, and has low muzzle flash. I carry a 642, a 36, or a six shot model 10 with the 2 inch barrell. I hope this info will help you. tachi62

My plan to try the 640, 642 & Ruger SP101 in a side by side shooting test failed. I called the only ranges I could find in West Monroe, Alexandria and Shreveport to ask about rentals. None had these, but the one in Alexandria had a 442. I just couldn't justify the expense of traveling 2 hours just to shoot one weapon, so I didn't go.

Interestingly, they all had Glock 9mm for rent. I'm not interested in a Glock 9mm, but my cousin is real gung ho on it and I promised I'd shoot one before making my purchase. He's convinced that it has fewer moving parts and would be easier for me to clean, etc. I'm concerned about something getting stuck in that little track and preventing firing. Also, you see it all the time in movies that a semi-auto gets stuck.

Plan B: there is going to be a benefit/fun shoot in my area soon. I thought I'd ask the organizers about advertising there for the opportunity to rent one of the above. That wouldn't be taboo or anything would it? I mean, it's not just a "benefit," but a "fun" shoot, too.

And of course, I'd provide my own ammo. As recommended in this thread, I'll take with me the Hornady Critical Defense 110gr +P's in 38.

Somebody also recommended the Speer Gold Dot 135 grain 38+P, but 110 grains sounds easier to shoot than 135 grains.

Another person recommended Hornady critical defense 110 gr ftx, but I do not know what ftx means. I just know that I have been told that a 38+P has as much stopping power as a 357.

In the event some actually has a used 640-1, or used 640 Pro for sale, what would be a good price for me to pay?

Thank you for your time. I hope y'all have a good weekend.

Suzie

Suzie,

Have you taken a safety or self defense course in Handguns?

If not,, I would suggest that,, and if you get with the instructor ahead of time,, I bet he could arrange for you to handle and shoot the guns that your are interested in,, as well as what the instructor recommends as well.

Gun show's are another good way to meet people and see the gun's in person,, that you are interested in.

As a rule,, I've found that gun shop's tend to lean towards and recommend the gun's that they have in stock.

If you attend and talk with one of the coordinator's,, there's probably a good chance that he'll be able to hook you up with someone that has the gun's that you are interested in and will allow you to shoot them.

Can you get someone to go along with you,, another GirlFriend, Relative,, etc. You know for moral support and safety.

Keep at it,, take your time,, and eventually you'll find a gun,, that is best for you,

Joe

I wholeheartedly agree. Anyone coming into handguns for the first time should take a good intro course that involves range time.

Suzie, what's your overall experience with guns?

No, I haven't. I was going to take a CCW class. I thought I had to have my own gun before I take it; so, I haven't looked into it yet. I'll look into that right away.

Thank you for the advice.

I took a hunter safety course in college. I scored really well on the shoot-dont shoot slide show test, but that was 100 years ago. We shot some type of shotgun at clay skeets, but I really do not remember much else about the class other than the phrase shoot-dont shoot.

Suzie,

I mentioned gunshow's in my previous posting,, but just thought about one of the last time's I went in Mobile.

I enjoy just looking,, and seeing what's new or what I haven't seen before,, as well as talking and asking question's.

Cruising around the table's just looking,, I got to talking with one of the Private Seller's table in the Back. An interesting Man,, I thought,, and the more we talked,, somehow we got onto the subject of Aviation. And then he reluctantly revealed that he was Retired from the Air Force,, and was one of the SR71 Blackbird Pilot's. I thought that I was standing in front of an Angel From God,, on Holy Ground. His name was Buddy Brown.

Gunshow's are an interesting event,, and You never know,, who you might meet,

Joe

Good advice. The guy at the shop may have had, or may not have had, extensive shooting experience. He may just be suggesting what he likes. Or, he may be suggesting what the store is actively pushing because of incentives (called SPIFFs). A day or two at the range renting different revolvers should school your girls in what they both need and like.

I have been the salesman at the LGS a couple of times in my life and I have seen too many husbands/boyfriends/fathers tell their wives/girlfriends/daughters what to buy only to find out the recipient of the gun doesn't like it. Gun prices are solid enough these days that, if you buy something one of them ends up not liking, you can recoup your funds and buy something else. Or just add it to your own collection.

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"Sacramento" Bruce Conklin

Probably not an issue unless you shoot a lot, but I don't like shooting tons of 38 special ammo in my 357's. the shorter 38's tend to fill the longer 357 chambers with lead/fouling. This makes cleaning a bit more of a chore and could actually make chambering the longer 357 mag. case a problem if you were lazy and didn't scrub the cylinder out. Some say it can even flame etch the cylinder walls, but I don't remember ever seeing a cylinder etched.

This thread is over 3 years old and the OP made his choice and hasn't posted again since.

Miss Suzie, do not rule out the 640, it is an excellent platform. Just change where you are looking. Some dealers (outside of Kalifornia) may have no-lock versions in stock, may still be available from Smith.

And your local gun shop (LGS) is not the only source for guns. Check out gunbroker.com and search for "smith & wesson 640." You will find dozens offered, many old enough to not have the lock. You will just need to have your LGS receive the gun for you for which they will charge a nominal fee.

I have both the 640 and 642. The 642 is my everyday carry gun (EDC) but both are equally comfortable to carry. I avoid the temptation to load up with +P ammo and shoot standard pressure loads instead. Much easier on my hands and more effective because the gun is not bouncing around so much.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

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"Sacramento" Bruce Conklin

Doh! That's what I get for responding to a thread that has been open on my browser for several days.

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"Sacramento" Bruce Conklin

Lol, still it was a good topic.

I have both and I find myself grabbing the 642 most of the time, the 640 is pretty much a safe queen. It's much heavier for CC and it's a bit too small for HD, but would still work. If you could only own one, I'd choose the 640, it gives you a bunch more versatility.

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Still carrying my S&W 642

Yes a 3" Sp-101 will make a perfect House gun for anybody. The SW 640 has nothing on it.

Hope you never need it. If you do, it's a good gun. I don't know what your family's experience level is, but most find the j frame snubs a little tough to master, when you get on the range.

If your girls have difficulty with it, consider a medium frame .38 Special revolver with a four inch barrel. A Smith and Wesson Model 64 is a good example of the breed. Simple. Fixed sights. A good gun to learn on. Much easier to shoot then the 2 inch snub. Better ballistic performance. A home gun doesn't have to be kept concealed, so no down side going to a bigger gun. They're easier to handle, truly. Six shots, too.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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Trust, but verify - R. Reagan

I bought a 642 last month as my first revolver. My wife absolutely hated it the first time on the range because she was used to our 9mms, G19 Gen 4 and a Shield. The trigger pull, the recoil, and the fact that it hurt her hand, all added to her dislike. Fast forward to yesterday when she knew what to expect with the trigger, strengthened her grip, and had the site picture down--she now loves shooting it. We have been to the range every week for the last year and a half, so she is a pretty good shot and once she got used to the 642, her accuracy is almost as good as with the 9mm. When I left for work this morning, the little 642 was in easy reach so I guess she is confident in it for home protection when I'm away. Like everyone says, there is no substitute for practice.