db are logrithmic so the energy is NOT the same!

Double power = 3db, double loudness = 6db (10db to our ears)

Years back I was rideing in a car with two other guys. I was by the right front window. We were down in louisiana in the boonies. The driver stopped to look at a wild pig. All of the sudden it felt like someone hit me alongside the head with a plank! The idiot in the middle shot at the pig with a .22 revolver with the muzzel a inch or two from my left ear! I had no idea he even intended to shoot! I dont know if my hearing is bad from that or working around jets all my life, but I am sure it didnt help! I am guilty of hardly ever wearing hearing protection except for sighting in guns off the bench. Of course when I was working and requalifying we always wore muffs, but just rideing in the boonies and shooting I still dont.

As soon as my ears stopped ringing, I would have slapped the fool outta him.....

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Take your time..quickly.

There was a interesting story on the follow up on that.

Kinda like LoboGunLeather I have learned that standard velocity .38 allows me to shoot with more effect in dark enclosed spaces than with the "what just happened" .357 magnum. I have actually set up silhouettes in a hallway at night and compared my performance with a 3" j frame and 4" model 66 in the dark. Wearing ear muffs, of course!

If I wanted a camp gun and bear or cougar were a concern I would probably carry a 4" model 65 loaded with .357..... It always rains when I go camping.

Yea, but he got a hell of a twitch from it.

Pete

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Don't tread on me

To me the 357 has got a sharp sound that kills my ears! kinna like sticking a big nail in your ear, but its still one of my favorite guns, i learned to wear ear plugs.

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WILL WORK FOR AMMO!

as I stated elsewhere revolvers have three advantages.
power potential
out of box accuracy
and has earned the phrase "six for sure"

357 is the smallest cartridge that takes advantage of a revolvers power advantage over any auto.
it would be the smallest revolver i'd consider.

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it just needs more voltage

I have hearing loss (about 40%) and tinitus. Yes a .357 is louder than a 45 ACP. In an actual shooting, no you will not notice the noise but you will still do damage to you hearing. I religiously used ear plugs or muffs when shooting, except for the one shooting I was involved in. What did the most damage ti my hearing was years of accumulated noise from lawn mowers, power tools & loud music. Never thought about hearing protection till it was too late.

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Support your Police, & NRA

Bottom line, some may seem louder than others but ALL of them will damage your ears. Even if one doesn't seem to "bother" you as much it's doing damage. When you hit 50 years of age you will wish you had protected your hearing. The .357's problem is so many of them are loaded so hot that a large percentage of the powder is burned after the bullet has left the barrel. Why so many people think this is the best load for a snub is something I never quite got.

a 357 snub is arguably inefficient and would do better in a longer barrel. but even with this efficiency shortcoming, the only auto that will match its energy is the 10MM which is more of a reloaders caliber than that of the unwashed masses.
Power is one of the revolvers advantages, and it is a trait that should be exploited.

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it just needs more voltage

All fired guns people should wear hearing protection. If it is a life or death situation you aren't going to have time to put them on so you would have to use a gun without the hearing protectors. It becomes a matter of priorities which is more important your hearing or your life. I have heard that you won't notice the gun fire as much when you are defending yourself but it still depends. If it is a shotgun blast I am sure you won't miss it especially without hearing protectors. Shotguns are rated at 160 decibels. Will the gun fire damage your hearing and according to the experts yes but it may not. There are a lot variables that could make the sound louder or softer.

I agree with your choice of a 357 magnum k-frame as a camp gun. The noise level is an issue but if you need the gun you will appreciate the magnum's extra power.

In 1989, just to satisfy my curiosity, I fired 6 factory magnums through a 2 1/2 inch 19-3. Each shot felt like a slap on the side of the head. My ears rang for a while and by that evening, I was fine. I'll never do that intentionally again but if I have to fire to save my life, I will not hesitate.

WHAT? Please write louder because I can't hear a bloody thing!

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Term limits!

Huh? (Carrying two .357s today...)

Yes, repeated gun-blasts from large caliber handguns will damage your hearing. And yes, the noise level from a .357 is far greater than other calibers like 9mmP or .45ACP, etc. And if you set off a .357mag indoors in a confined space just once, your ears will pay the price short term and long term when they perhaps would not suffer permanent damage from the other calibers mentioned. The .357 is just devastating in terms of flash and bang.

And the stories flying around about not hearing or noticing the gunblasts in an earnest sd encounter are misleading. This may indeed appear so due to a phenomena called auditory exclusion but this will not prevent hearing loss. Ask your doctor.

But I really don't understand the real issue. The .357 is a proven stopper. When you practice (indoors or out) you use hearing protection. Not to would be foolish. If you need to fire it in an emergency in earnest, then your hearing can only be of secondary concern. Anything else would be foolish.

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QM3

I have permanent hearing loss in my left ear from firing a .357 Magnum without hearing protection when I was young and stupid.

People talk about losing hearing over time, I did it in one day. I still remember th exact day. A friend and I went through 150 rounds of .357 at the range. We forgot the hearing protection and figured what the hell. It was actually painful (and I thought I was macho for gutting it out). My ears were ringing when we finished and the ringing in my left ear has still not stopped. That was in 1994.

Now do I think emptying 6 .357 rounds in self defense will do that? No I don't and I still keep mine loaded in my house and would use it without hearing protection. However for any recreational shooting learn from my mistake and wear hearing protection. If you forget it stuff cotton, paper, empty casings or whatever you can find in your ears. It ay be gross and they won't work as well as "real" ear plugs or muffs but they are a lot btter than nothing. Don't be stupid like me.

I know this is an old thread but oh well. I had a malfunction last week with my Comanche 6" 357 magnum, loaded with hydra shok 158gr. I had just cleaned the weapon and was going to cycle the cylinder and have it drop on the 1 empty cylinder by pulling the trigger. I will never do that again! Even though I have never had an issue with the cylinder not rotating correctly, it did it then. Of course I had the gun pointed downward, but it was no more than a foot and a half in front of my face when it went off. It was quite a strange few minutes after that. Wasn't like anything I've ever experienced. More than a flash bang or any homemade pyrotechnic device at close range.

Had no plugs on and was in a small basement, maybe 11'x18' or so. Not sure if I will have any permanent damage, but will be surprised if I don't. No bleeding or fluids came out of my ears though. Ringing stopped within a day or so, but even after a week my ears still feel, congested maybe, off and on throughout the day. I can still hear almost at the same level as before, at least that's how it seems. I can really notice a difference when driving with the windows down though. Makes them feel more plugged up.

I have shot 45, 22, 9mm, 223, at arms length before with no protection and none of those comes close to what happened when that thing went off a foot and a half or so from my ears. I think I am no longer going to even consider a 357 or 12gauge for home defense any more. I'll stick with the 45, and start looking for suppressors.

I have tinnitus due to a combination of gunfire, heavy equipment operation and running chainsaws for over 30 years. I wore hearing protection the majority of times but there were times when I did not.
I agree with Lobo, I use .357mag loads in my J-frame and they will definately make your ears ring; it was outdoors, up close and personal with a 205 lb. wild boar, no time to put in earplugs. It seems to me that .357mag is even louder than .44mag.

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"Life is short, hunt hard"

Never mind the age of the thread. It may be an old thread but this topic is always current - as well as always hotly disputed - and thank you so much for sharing your experience. And, of course, you draw the right conclusions from the lesson you've learned. And you still can use that .357 for SD indoors. Just load it up with good .38spl self defense loads. There are plenty good loads to be had and they will do the job.

And again, before someone jumps on this wagon and tells us how much more effective the .357 loads are, there is no argument on that. They are more effective. Period. The point is that not everyone is willing to trade in their hearing for the additional stopping power of the .357 when he most likely can get by with a good .38spl. And don't forget: When you use the .357mag in a closed, confined (and likely dark) space, you had better be done after the first shot. Because follow up shots will be extremely difficult in the environment created by the blast of a .357mag and its effects on the shooter.

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QM3

May be true for you.

i like the "sounds" that come from my S&W .357 magnums and the attention it gets at the range.

And if the booth is small enough and the charge big enough I can feel it move what's left of my hair!

unless you have Spock's ears and the six million dollar man's bionic eye, it's true for you too

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QM3

Having practiced shooting the .357 in near darkness many times, I can say that the "shock and awe" is no more nor less than a healthily loaded .45 acp or 38+P.

I was taught to use the muzzle flash to find the front sight on follow up shots. It's not difficult.

I will not say whether it is an acceptable round for you or anyone else, but I do say that for me it is. I have practiced with it, I carry it and I trust it.

you are kidding now, right?

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QM3

How well does the .38 penetrate the human body? If it is good enough to pass completely through, what does the .357 do for you? I read somewhere (I forget where) that once you achieve adequate penetration, extra velocity just gets you more range. Since most defensive shootings are at very short range, I am skeptical that the extra velocity from the .357 adds anything. Of course, I'm assuming that a .38 has adequate penetration, which may be incorrect.

If you can get equivalent performance from a lower pressure cartridge like a .38, .44 special, or .45 auto, why not use it and avoid subjecting yourself to unnecessary noise and flash?

Considering over penetration possibilities and the fact that it felt like a mortar exploded close to me, 357 seems seems honestly stupid as home defense, almost as bad as a rifle. An 18" 12gauge, according to the charts is actually not as loud. I'm sure a sorter barrel would still be less DB, and realistically, I don't think anything beats the stopping power of 12 gauge at self defense ranges. Or the intimidation factor. One shot is all you need, and shot placement isn't that important. I still keep my 45 next to my head, but my shotty is now also within arms reach. 45 for instant response, shotty if no one is in sight.

Back when my wife's service revolver was an old Security Six 4-incher (magna-style grips), and my private revolver was an early 586 six-incher, I really noticed the difference in recoil with 145-158 grain full-power loads, but I don't recall how much difference in noise there was, because I don't think we ever shot them with magnums side-by-side. She carried Treasury Load .38's anyway. I can't find anything on the 'net regarding barrel length effects on decibels. Anyone have anything on that?

No, as the only way I would shoot any firearm without hearing protection is in a emergency situation. If it's an emergency I will have other things to worry about than causing any potential hearing damage.

Now you boys want to hear loud, get yourselves a Hakim. Loudest thing I've ever been around. Buddy brought it out, fired it once and we made him put it away. I can't imagine what it would be like in front of it.

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

A .357 magnum doesn't make noise...

...get ya some of this!

Notice the two guys next to him!

Ruger 454 Casull Super Redhawk Alaskan - JL - YouTube

Some folks have the impression that the .357 is "untamable" or "too much gun" or something. Not true in the least.

If it's not the gun for you, that's fine.

Not at all. I like my .357 just fine. Only not for home defense at close ranges. It doesn't matter how well you handle a full house .357, you will not get off follow-up shots as fast and accurately as you would with a .38spl - simple matter of physics. And while the .38 lacks the energy and velocity of the .357, at close range it is an adequate man stopper. Ask Jack Web or several generations of LEOs who used it quite sucessfully.

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QM3

Gun control is dealing with the various physics of a given firearm. It becomes a matter of practice. With the guns I own I am as accurate with my follow up shots as I am the initial. Speed? In my experience not a big difference between a M64 or a M65 in the same barrel length.
Keeping in mind that I do not want to be misconstrued as telling anyone whether they should or should not choose a .357 for SD. It's none of my business. Whether I can or cannot do a thing has no bearing on anyone else.

I own a couple of .357 magnums and I use them for woods carry. So far I have never had to shoot anything. When I go camping, I usually don't carry a firearm.

I would get a CZ-75 with 19 rounds of 9mm goodness.

Someone posted an eloquent quote that I will no doubt butcher but it went something like:

If you place a round in a vital area stopping the threat, it doesn't matter what caliber it is. If you fail to place a round in a vital area, it doesn't matter what caliber it is either!

It would be nice if it was a perfect world.. but it's not!

"If you place a round in a vital area stopping the threat, it doesn't matter what caliber it is. If you fail to place a round in a vital area, it doesn't matter what caliber it is either!"

A .25 auto might be deflected from a skull at 25 feet...
same shot from a .44 magnum...
Well... the .44 might hurt you ears more anyhow!

Goes to show that attempting a head shot with a 25 auto isn't such a good idea, right? I guess what I'm saying is "a man's got to know his limitations." I hope to score a Sig P238 this week (please - please!!!) and will be learning what ammunition, where to place shots, etc. as I go. Wish me luck!

It is great to hear there is another Johnny Quest fan out there.... As to your question, let me first say that I tend to take care of the things I treasure, and hearing is pretty high on the list. My life, and the safety of loved one's takes the top spot. Sometimes, there have to be tradeoffs and the loss of hearing may be necessary when defending my camp from predators. I'm good with that and will arm myself appropriately, which leads me to a critical decision point.

Prior to taking to the field, I always ask myself what I might reasonably expect to encounter in camp or on the trail. If your only realistic threat is human, then you have several handgun caliber options that will not be as damaging to your hearing as a .357, but just as effective. You know what they are; 38, 38+P, 9mm, 40, 44 Special, 45....

Now if I'm in bear country, my concern for hearing takes a back seat to my fondness for life. My go to gun is a rifle first, but the practicality of carrying one everywhere in camp makes it necessary to have some type of backup in the most powerful of handgun calibers. Carrying a .44Mag, 454 or .50 in a chest holster is the only compromise I'm willing to make. Hearing takes a back seat to survival.

Everyone's experience and prejudice plays into caliber selection. I just don't think there is a significant advantage gained in the use of .357 against humans when compared to other handgun calibers. I do think there is a significant chance that a .357 is more likely to cause permanent hearing loss than the 38, 9mm, etc..... when you have to shoot without hearing protection.

Good luck with your decision. I hope you never have to fire a .357 without the advantage of hearing protection. If you do, something has either gone terribly wrong or you made a very bad decision that will result in some degree of hearing loss.

whw

+1
Very well put, whw. You perfectly capture the essence of the dilemma!

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QM3

Well, let's see... Yes, I believe this is the "Concealed Carry and Self Defense" section of the forum?

Humm? Then the only time I can draw and fire my revolver is when life is the price.

OK... So, I've been told that man is the most dangerous animal and bears don't carry knives or guns...
So I need to use a .44 magnum, or .454 casull on bears and something less than a .357 magnum on man to protect my hearing?
Maybe I should just use my .44 magnum, or .454 casull, on ALL animals... or do I need to get killed with perfect hearing? I just don't know?

Humm.. which is the most deadly, a large bear, or a druggy with a gun? Which is the easiest to kill? If I have to shoot a bear 3 times before he gets to me...
and if it takes 3 shoots to kill that druggy with a gun, is it possible he could return fire before my 3rd shot...

I just don't see this hearing loss thing when life is the price...
maybe I need to get another pair of Rose Colored Glasses...

Nah.. they wouldn't fit me after not having a pair on in 44 years!!

Well, of course, we all can appreciate that when it comes to cartridges and projectiles, more mass is better than less, higher velocity is better than lower velocity and a bigger powder charge is better than a smaller one. Yes. Correct. Point taken. Will a .454 casull stop an assailant more reliably than a .357? Yes! Will a .357 be more effective than a .38? Yes! So, following this pattern of reasoning, should we all use a .50Cal. BMG handcannon on the druggie? Yes!

I always felt that one should use what is adequate to get the job done. And adequate for close range SD are all the above mentioned popular handgun calibers, ranging from .38 to .45, their magnum variants, as well as some of the more exotic creations. I am fine to load .38+P SJHP in my .357mag revolver as a WELL BALANCED CHOICE for home defense. Needlessly to say, there is almost no upward limit if you feel you need it. A S&W 500 .50Cal. magnum will do just fine. Is it a well balanced choice? Hmm, . . .

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QM3

In my opinion...

A .357 magnum is the smallest caliber that I would use for a self defense caliber.
How anyone would even be concerned about noise level in a self defense situation is beyond common sense.
And anyone that doesn't use ear protection plinking and target shooting is stupid.

Any noise level that leaves your ears ringing causes permanent damage. If you're shooting to be shooting, always wear hearing protection, indoors or out. If you shooting in self defence, you may not even hear the blast over your pumping adrenalin. Damage will occur in any case, but it won't matter, considering the alternatives.

At the range my .357 always gets noticed. It's usually the loudest gun there. I did fire a round off without ear protection while camping/shooting last year. While my ears didn't bleed, it did ring my bell for little bit. I think on the off chance you have to pull and fire on the spot you'll survive the noise. Just don't make a habit of it.

I love mine mainly for the fact that the .357 is a great round that lets you know you're shooting a 'real' gun but if I run .38's through it it's like a .22 on steroids. Love it!

I'm thinking the malfunction was between your ears.

I don't want to be a smart-hiney, but my Lord, you were indoors, with a loaded gun, pulling the trigger.... That's pretty stupid in anyone's book.

If you want to leave a revolver on an empty cylinder, turn the cylinder by hand and leave your finger off the trigger.

If you want to actually cycle the action and have the gun drop hammer on an empty chamber, do so outside at a safe shooting range, pointing in a safe direction with ear and eye protection.

I'm far from perfect, but I always try to practice safe handling, and you should also. I hope you don't suffer permanent hearing loss and I hope you remember your mistake and we all learn a bit from it.

I don't know this to be a fact but, Could it be that some people are more sensitive to different noise levels and frequencies than others. For instance, my Son says that my .38 special standard pressure loads out of an 1 7/8ths barrel don't bother him as much as rounds from my .25 Colt vest pocket. I wouldn't know because I wear ear plugs with any gun except my .22 rifle.
Peace,
gordon

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better have that checked

If you have the time, take a couple of bullets from your speed
loader or from the cylinder, or spare magazine, and put them in your ears.
While not quite effective as regular hearing protection, it will soften the noise.
If you don't have the time to do that, hearing loss it not your main problem.
Just my .02.

Stu

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NRA Benefactor/Cert Instructor