OK, for times when I just can't hide my 340PD in thin dress slacks (Mika pocket holster notwithstanding) , and nothing other than pocket carry will work, it's down to two guns for me. And only two, I think I've considered them all.

It's either going to be a Seecamp .32 (much better gun, but I can't afford the .380) or a Ruger LCP .380 (not as nice a gun, but it is a.380).

Would you go with the better gun or the slightly larger caliber? Is the stopping ability difference between a .32 and a .380 worth worrying about?

I own a Seecamp in .32ACP. I like it, but it does have its drawbacks, caliber notwithstanding. I find it manageable in .32ACP, but wonder if it would be so in the .380 loading. For me, it points well, but it is strictly a close-range, last ditch type of weapon. It is small, but it's also heavy. I carry mine in a Galco (horsehide) pocket holster in my weak-side front pants pocket as my "New York reload". The trigger pull is a long, deliberate, double action only one - there are no chances for "double-taps". It is reliable - there are only 4 moving parts - and I've never had a FTF, FTE, etc. I don't think there is a similarly sized pistol in .32ACP, which is part of its appeal for me. If your heart is set on one, I'd definitely go for the .32ACP caliber rather than .380.

Best of luck,

Dave

PM me and I can make you a deal on a LWS32 with Bear Creek pocket holster. Fired exactly two boxes through it with no glitches.

My number one carry is a Seecamp .380. I bought it before the plethora of alternatives like the LCP came on the scene. Today I would be more prone to buy a Rohrbaugh 9 or Kahr PM .380.
I don't have a problem "managing" the LWS. Adding a magazine extension helped to eliminate the finger banging.
I like light, so I may even pick up an LCP one of these days.
My next most carried not so deep cover is a M&P 340 with CT 405 grips.
If I feel compelled to carry a 17 oz 9mm I have a Kahr PM9 which to date is still hard to beat.

Is this for the rich folk?

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Memory of Randy Freas-Rimfired

My choice is a Seecamp 32ACP for everyday carry where something bigger is not appropriate. The little Seecamp simply disappears in your pocket and mine has proven itself to be absolutely reliable and deadly accurate at close range. I know .32ACP is questionable as a defensive round but the current offering of self defense ammo really makes up for it's inherent shortcomings.
I carry my Seecamp everyday regardless of anything else!
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Regards
Paul

Nothing wrong with a 642 at $400 or LCP for $300 and change.

If I carry a small pistol I prefer the NAA Guardian in .32 ACP. I carry in a pocket holster and it is unnoticeable. I have had no issues with mine and it points well for me.i originally wanted a seecamp but was put off by the silvertip ammo requirement, cost not being the issue but more for availability concerns.

I believe the Ruger LCP has worked itself out by now as a reliable piece. I would pick that over the Seecamp for the slightly larger caliber, better ammunition availability and the saved money means more ammo for you to practice with. And you will need to practice with it if you intend to hit anything.
And if you so desire you can have real sights added to the LCP.

I go with the LCP. Nice and tiny. Decent caliber.

.32 Seecamp. The others don't come close. Yes, it costs more and yes it weighs more, and yes you can buy a .380 plastic-blaster. But, in guns, as in motorcars, you get what you pay pay for. There is a reason why a Bentley costs more than a Kia and that same reason applies to why a Seecamp costs more than an LCP. As far as caliber goes, both the .380 and the .32 will do the job of stopping an attacker, provided you do your job and hit what you are shooting at. I prefer the .32 because it has less recoil and allows me to get back on target faster for a second, or subsequent, shot.

I have a Kel-Tec P32 that is 100% dependable. I carry 71gr FMJ in it although it handles JHP's I like the deeper penetration potential. Mine is one of the original 1st generation guns with the old style extractor and it still functions perfectly. For pocket carry I usually carry a J-Frame but if the occasion calls for deep deep concealment you can't beat the Kel-Tec.

My wife and I both usually have Seecamp .32's squirreled away somewhere.

Kel-tec 32 is my choice for when I want the smallest & lightest carry gun.

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Watch & Pray

Baby Browning or vest pocket Colt. Larry

So for his purposes, how is the Seecamp functionally better?

I'm not sure what this poster was referring to, but I'm the OP and I just bought the Seecamp. Jewel-like construction, tiny size (although somewhat heavy) extreme support from the manufacturer including current ammo recommendations and a loyal user base sort of sealed the deal for me.

We'll see how it works out. I know there are legions who swear by the LCP as well, and it was a tough call.

Ditto on the 1st gen P32. Mine works perfectly. Bought a bunch of surplus FN fmj flat point ammo when I got the pistol. The little gun never jams. If I have to put something in my pocket to be armed, its going to be the P32.

Out
West

Of the two, the LCP. I'd rather carry a good knife than anything smaller than a .380 and I think its marginal at best. I'm not a fan of mouse guns at all. Personally I'd find away to dress around the 340PD, even if that means buying thicker slacks.

I'll add this. When I first started pocket carrying I thought my 442 looked huge in my pocket. After I got used to it, I realized it doesn't and that it conceals superbly. (I pocket carry wearing dress pants regularly)

Just some food for thought.

Many states forbid pocket carry by law. They require any gun inside a pocket to be holstered.

That being the case, a person needing a gun quickly will have difficulty getting a gun out of a holster while in a pocket. They probably will not have time or other things to take the gun & holster out of the pocket, remove the gun from the holster and still be able to use it.

Best check the laws on pocket carry in your state and those you visit.

my everyday carry is a seecamp lws .32 in a desantis pocket holster. these little guns are put together slowly and carefully, hence the price as opposed to others their size.
class was never cheap.

Welcome to the L.W. Seecamp Company Home Page

For what it is worth, I love my Beretta Bobcat, for pocket carry. The Tomcat is in effect the same design updated in .32.... Might be worth checking it out.

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always trust your cape...

The gun is supposed to separate from the holster as you draw the gun. A person needs to practice with their gun/holster combo to make sure this happens and if they don't separate reliably, try a different holster model. For example, in loose fitting pants the Uncle Mikes/Blackhawk holster won't separate reliably for me. But the Desantis Nemesis does.

But in general yes pocket carry is slower unless you have your hand staged in your pocket on your grip. Then it's the fastest method.

I had a KelTec P32 that was absolutely reliable and surprisingly accurate. However, since I'm not a "thin dress slacks" kinda guy, I swapped it to a co-worker who really, really wanted it for a nickel-plated S&W Model 37.

The Model 37 meets my "deep concealment" needs nicely.

ECS

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

Me either anymore.

But it comes up anyway about once or twice a year-weddings, funerals, etc.

IM on the list for the new boberg 9mm but it will probably be a 6 month wait or longer before i get one. Check out the boberg site, the shorty is the same size as the rohrberg 9mm but can fire plus p ammo.

Seecamp .32acp for me

Well, it seems to me that you already have what is probably the best pocket pistol ever devised in the 340PD. It gives you .38 +P or .357 magnum power levels in a gun that weighs less than 12 ounces. Why shun this gun in favor of a lesser cartridge/gun combination?

Frankly, if I were you, I would invest my efforts into finding the dress slacks that work with the 340PD. If you don't want to buy new pants, check out SmartCarry - Concealed Gun Holsters or www.thunderwear.com.

If not a J-frame, why not consider the S&W Bodyguard 380.

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I'm with the banned ...

An LCP meets this need for me. I shoot it monthly and am pretty accurate out to 7 yards.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

For those guy who just bought seecamps, (including the OP) how bought a little more information. Are they really reliable with the right ammo? I just talked to my dealer and he said its a 6-8 month wait. The 380 seecamp is smaller then the rohrbach or the boberg, it seems idea for dress slacks and fashion jeans.

Like Harley, I too carry a guardian in 32acp in dress slacks. It is based on the seecamp design, is cheaper, very reliable, and has company support as good as any. I think they make exceptional little guns, and the 32acp is plenty for a last ditch close combat gun. Practice with these little guns though. The trigger is intentionally long and difficult to pull (no safety), and the light weight will beat on you if you have a limp grip.

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Joshua Brown(Town)

I just purchased a Seecamp .32 and it is in my pocket (inside a hoslter) everywhere I go. It had some issues running with the Silver Tips, but runs perfect with Speer Gold Dots.

Andrew

I don't know if I qualify to answer your question as I've owned my Seecamp for over 30 years. In all that time, the only ammo I've fired in it has been the Winchester Silver Tip. Initially, this was THE recommended ammo, and the round the weapon was designed around. Currently, there are several different types of ammo that are factory approved:

L.W. Seecamp Co. - Home of the Seecamp 32 and Seecamp 380 Pistols

I've never had a problem with my Seecamp. I've never had a FTF, FTE, etc. I know the Winchester Silver Tip works in my Seecamp, so I've never seen a need to buy any other ammo for it. I was lucky enough to win some Speer Gold Dot ammo in a karma drawing here, so I do have some high performance ammo to load up with if I ever get an itch to try something besides the Silver Tips.

Frankly, the only problems I've experienced with the Seecamp are:

1. It's heavy for its size. Solution: (shrug) use a good holster - I use a Galco horsehide pocket holster, and it works just fine.

2. It has some rough edges. Solution: a little careful sanding with some sandpaper and a file took the rough spots off.

3. It is small enough that you really don't have any excuse not to be carrying a firearm. Solution: carry the sucker! I know I'd rather have the Seecamp than any derringer or NAA small revolver.

Long winded (sorry), but I hope this answers your questions.

Best of luck,

Dave

I carry my Seecamp 380 probably 60% of the time, the other 40% would be my Kahr MK9. The Seecamp rides in a Kramer horsehide IWB or a convertable front or back pocket holster. The MK9 rides in a Crossbreed IWB.

I have a similar question... im deciding between the bg,kahr and taurus 380. any input??

I didn't realize that the Boberg and Seecamp 380 were in the $1,000 +/- price range. That's up there with the Rohrbaugh. Factor in the expected wait and you've got a sizable investment money-wise and time-wise. I'd be more inclined to spend that $1,000 on three S&W 642s or 442s, and minimize the boot grips as much as possible for deepest concealment. Revolver reliability, .38 Special, and immediate delivery. My 2c.

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I'm with the banned ...

The Kel-Tec P3AT 380 is the same size as the P32.

The BG380 is just a little bigger which makes the grip more comfortable for me. You get real dovetailed in sights on the BG380 unlike the little bump and notch you get on the others.

Taurus may have the bugs worked out of the TCP by now but they had a high return rate when they first came out.

The LCP is just a product improved Kel-Tec It looks better but the both are just as reliable and accurate. Points to Kel-Tec for customer support.

You can buy two maybe 3 NAA Guardians for the price of a Seecamp and don't have to wait 18 months to get one.

The Beretta Tomcat is way fatter than the Bobcat. Almost as wide as a J-Frame.

Of all my little guns the 442 and the BG380 are the one most often used.

I agree with most of what you say. I will go to extreme measures to conceal the 340PD in my pocket if there is any way possible. The J-frame is my first love. And it weighs the same as the Seecamp. It's just that very occasionally for me it's size and cylinder are a bit of a problem. In those rare circumstances I'd rather have something than nothing.

I did, but for me it's physical size was more than I wanted. Might as well stick with the 340PD.

OK, I'm the OP. I'll tell you I read, but I haven't shot mine yet so keep that in mind. They are said to be stone reliable with the right ammo. And that is critical. Larry Seecamp says to shoot 13 out of a box and if they run through perfectly save the last 7 for carry. Makes sense to me.

As far as the wait is concerned, you can find the .380s on Gunbroker at a slight premium (~100. or so) over factory list price if you want to go that way. The .32 and the .380 are the same size. I walked in to my LGS Thursday and bought a NIB .32 for 449.00, which is list price. He had 4 available. I figure at the range I'd be likely to have to use this thing .380 vs. .32 would be a moot point. You guys who'd prefer a knife to a mousegun, you're welcome to your opinion but honestly it sounds ridiculous to me. But that's just me and I recognize that there aren't any absolutes, just opinions.

Gold Dots are the current factory recommended ammo of choice. It seems to vary as ammo manufacturer's quality changes.

Excellent post Dave. Initially the gun was designed around Silvertips, but they have changed over time. They are now back on the "good" list but Gold Dots are now the #1 choice. I think basically any of the top 3 hollow points (Gold Dots, Silvertips or Hydra-Shoks) are OK but you must measure the OAL on each round in the box and only use those that are <.910". That's just the price one must pay to own the tiniest, most precision made weapon on the market. It's worth it to some, maybe not to others.

I love them both, own them both and think they both serve a purpose. I too would always go with a J-frame anytime it was possible for me to conceal.

Dimensionally, the Kel-tec .32 is smaller than the Kel-tec P3AT

P3AT .380 P32 .32 Auto
Weight 8.3 oz. 6.6 oz.
Frame Width 0.798" 0.765"
Barrel Length 2.745" 2.675"
Slide Width 0.748" 0.748"
Overall Length 5.14" 5.08"
Height 3.576" 3.571"
Cartridge Capacity 6+1 7+1

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Watch & Pray

DonDee ... This thread has got me thinking and researching. Looking at the Seecamp, which has some distinct advantages for deep concealment, I see that the recommended ammo is quite expensive. This rules out cost effective "range" ammo or reloads for practice. Obviously with such a small gun, practice is imperative, but range shooting Hydra-Shocks, Gold Dots, Silver Tips, etc. is not realistic unless one has a sizable budget. Thus, I'm wondering if many (NOT all) owners of Seecamps end up carrying a lot without being able to shoot enough to truly master the gun. This is not a criticism, merely an inquiry. I carry J-frames exclusively, and though ammo costs have rocketed in recent years, I'm still able to find relatively cheap practice ammo for my range outings. I'm able to practice on a regular basis without going broke, and feel comfortable knowing that the firearm I carry has seen sufficient range time.

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I'm with the banned ...

mc5aw, I'll answer your very valid question the best I can.

Every Seecamp has had at least 2 mags run through it before it left the factory; if it didn't run flawlessly they worked on it until it did run 2 mags perfectly. Larry Seecamp says there is no need to break it in at all, and he decries the old "200 round rule" as bunk.

Having said that, the Seecamp is no range gun and never has been. I'll promise you that even with the .32 you will not want to spend much range time, not to mention the .380! It's strictly a last ditch close up defensive weapon. At an encounter of 10 feet or less, one would count on his point and shoot instincts kicking in. They don't even come with sights! Yes, you'd want to spend enough time shooting to become familiar with it, but beyond that it's really just a carry piece. I'd shoot a couple of mags once a year or so, then clean it and load the rest of the box to carry until next year.

That's my take on it; hope it helps.

I agree with all the above, and mainly, that it's not a range gun. It's for up close and personal, doesn't need sights just needs to be reliable.
I currently own both a 32 and a 380. The 32 was bought in 1988, one of the early guns, when there was a 1 year wait or more, and the gun was Silvertip specific. I waited about 2 years for my 380 and it was also one of the early production guns.
The 32 is being offered for sale in the classifieds(shameless plug) because after I got the 380 I saw no more need for the 32, it's almost the exact same size.
As far as the ammo issue goes, Larry Seecamp wrote an interesting piece on his website. Here it is:

L.W. Seecamp Co. - Home of the Seecamp 32 and Seecamp 380 Pistols

The 380 Seecamps are expensive, yes. But, imo, worth every penny over other 380's. ymmv

The more I'm reading, the more attractive that little .32 is. The .380 appears to be pretty mean to shoot, even occasionally. Too bad it's not available in .25.

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I'm with the banned ...

It was! They're not current productions guns but they were made before the 32's. Sometimes they come up for sale on the Seecamp forum.
Matter of fact there one FS there right now, but real pricey

I remember reading a write up by a famous gun writer on the .32ACP Seecamp version shortly after it was released. He spoke highly of the piece and said people had the wrong idea of he efficacy of the .32ACP round. The writer said if he ever had to use the Seecamp in a self defense situation, he wouldn't shoot it slowly, one round at a time, but instead, he would shoot it rapidly and empty the magazine into his assailant so the effect would be like hitting him with a single round of 12 gauge 00-Buck. Anyone who has ever fired a Seecamp knows that writer is full of...nonsense. The trigger pull is long and deliberate, and strictly double action only. I treated everything else that writer had to say about anything with a gigantic grain of salt. By the way, I'm very happy with my Seecamp in .32ACP. I wouldn't be comfortable with a .25, nor would I look forward to shooting a .380 version. The .32ACP is entertaining enough for me.

Regards,

Dave

Mike or Dave ... How would you characterize the recoil from the .32? Similar to a wadcutter in an Airweight/Lite? Seecamp lists the LWS 32 at 10.45oz without the magazine, 11.5oz with it, so the overall unloaded weight is not that much different than the lightest J-frame.

Apologies if this appears to be a thread hijacking. It is not ... the thread has generated some valuable information for discussion and consideration.

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I'm with the banned ...

If you live in any state other than Illinois, concealed carry allows you to carry concealed....even in a pocket. I don't know of any concealed carry laws that do not allow pocket carry.

....That said, you'd be foolish not to pocket carry in a pocket holster.

mc5aw:

As someone has already indicated, the LWS is not a range gun. I have a small hand (size 6.5 surgical gloves), and I can only get 1 finger (middle finger) on the grip. I practice shooting it one-handed only. The recoil vertically isn't bad, I don't try to control it, I just try to get it back on target as quickly as possible. Because of the lack of grip space, and also because I insist on shooting it one-handed, the piece does smack my palm, but it doesn't seem to be any worse than shooting 148gr. wadcutters out of an airweight J-frame (either a 642 or Model 38-0). In other words, the recoil is manageable and tolerable to me. It's been a while, but if I remember correctly, I weighed a fully loaded Model 642 and it was around 14.5oz.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Dave