Gentleman,

I apologize if anyone mentioned this earlier-I didn't read every post.

I have had 5 Pits and know a little bit about them. A sure enough well-bred pit with an established bloodline will be one of the sweetest dogs to humans you'll ever encounter. That same animal will do anything in it's power to annihilate and decimate any other animal, especially another dog. That's just how it is, period.

Why? Easy, it's selective breeding. A true pit bull comes directly from stock that is tempered in the ring. Like it or not, that's the fact. Any dog that shows any hesitation at all in fighting another dog to the death dies anyway as soon as the fight is over. Similarly, any dog that shows even the slightest hint of aggression toward his handler or any other human goes on a one way trip out back behind the ring shack. The surviving dogs are known to be "game bred".

Now-if you encounter a pit that was bred in someone's backyard for profit, or perhaps a mix-wel, you're on your own. The results could be anything.

This is why so many people have heard that pits are sweet to humans. Good ones are, but God help the regular dog that crosses their path.

So far I have shot and killed one pit bull that started chewing on me with no provocation. I was gonna shoot a second one but fortunately for him I couldn't get the gun out of the Level III holster fast enough after he ran into my legs. He had just torn apart a cat and came at me with his face covered with blood. I also had a young female Rottweiler charge me in a park. She really wanted a piece of me but stopped abruptly when I showed no fear and didn't retreat an inch. I did get the gun out in time for this one and was waiting until she was almost on top of me and there was no chance of putting a stray bullet into the neighborhood where all the millionaires live.

You were unarmed and you jumped on a stranger's pit bull? That's crazy. Aggressive dogs that are off a leash and charge you are to be shot on sight. People have no idea how dangerous these dogs can be until it's too late. I'll not wait around again to find out if a dog that drew my blood is up to date on its rabies shots.

Ah, yes... the beloved Fila Brasileiro. A friend of mine once had one of these and it absolutely scared the hell out of me. He wanted the most fearsome and dangerous dog breed he could find, did all the research, and certainly got his money's worth. It's the single most intimidating dog I have ever seen.

Dave Sinko

I don't care if they are legal or not around here. And your hollow stainless steel mug can't even come close to the force exerted by a steel baton. And yes, they do work. I've done it.

Regardless, it's still something other than my gun to keep between the dog and me instead of using my arm.

[QUOTE=Doug M.;136395277... but he admits that she can be a real problem with other dogs and he has to be careful....[/QUOTE]

If this is true then the dog is certainly not a legitimate service dog/therapy dog. To be certified the dog MUST be nonagressive. I'd like to know the therapist's name and location that recommended a Therapy dog that would be agressive under any circumstances.

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Hook686

Bear spray level OCP will stop dogs, it's more effective on a charging grizzly than a .44. The stuff for people you buy, no, it won't stop every person either. Bear spray for the dog, you gut, much less shoot a dog that's not on you and depending on the area of the country you are in, it's on. The advice is free, take it or leave it it's JMO.

This is not my understanding of bear spray. Bear's nasal membranes are more sensitive than humans (dogs too). My understanding is that bear spray is less potent than human spray but it's range is far greater. I undertand that it will spray 20+ feet, giving it time to respond before the bear is upon you.

Do you have any reference that indicates that it is stronger?

I DO care if they're legal.

I haven't got the SLIGHTEST intention of losing my license to LEGALLY carry a handgun (and maybe some portion of my life at liberty) in order to ILLEGALLY carry something of debatable effectiveness to avoid killing a dangerous animal attacking me.

My right to travel public thoroughfares and be in public places, unmolested, trumps the life of ANY unrestrained animal.

As I said, I like dogs. I like being alive with all of my appendages intact, not being in jail, and being able to work and support myself a LOT more.

My understanding was that they used essentially the same type of formulations, but the bear spray had to be packaged in a container that held a minimum of 8 ounces, and had to have a minimum range of 25 feet. I've also heard that the nozzles on the bear spray containers allow the spray to be dispersed in a larger particle size which enhances it's ability to have a longer effective range for bears and other large animals with big nostrils.

As far as "heat" is concerned, if you look at UDAP's bear spray as an example, they rate it at 3.3 million scoville heat units, which is comparable, or even "hotter", than a lot of the sprays on the market designed for use on humans, but it's nowhere near as "hot" as some of the sprays LEA's are using now.

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NRA Pistol,PPITH,PPOTH&TASER

That's fine and dandy. You guys need to worry about yourselves. I would rather explain to an officer why I used a baton than explain why I shot the dog. But that doesn't mean I would hesitate to shoot if I had to.

But then again, I don't have a problem with cops. I know many locally and routinely work with them.

You hit the nail on the head, dispersion is the key.

Aggressive Pitbull Dog Sprayed with UDAP Pepper Power Developed By A Grizzly Bear Attack Survivor - YouTube

UDAP Pepper Power Bear Spray testimonials

In Ohio, it's legal for me to shoot the dog if it's an imminent threat to me. It's NOT legal for me to carry the baton, as far as I know, certainly not on the basis of having a Concealed HANDGUN License.

You DO realize that your "explanation" is an ADMISSION that you committed a CRIME, right?

Personally, I'll choose "explaining" (through counsel) a LAWFUL action over "explaining" (confessing to) an UNlawful action 100 out of 100 times.

I'm more afraid of Rottweilers than Pit Bulls maybe just due to their size. I'm on the fence about Pit Bulls. I use to watch the Dog Whisperer faithfully and have seen no more laid back, stoic Pit Bulls than the one Cesar called Daddy but, from all I've read and seen on TV, most are not like him.

I have a seven year old Pembroke Welsh Corgi and would not hesitate to defend him in whatever means I had available from an attack by ANY dog. On walks, I carry a steel baton and would not hesitate in the least to crack another on the head if he came charging. The various species of canines have certain qualities ingrained in them. My boy is a herding dog but he's not like most. you can't get him to chase any form of a ball and won't even run after cats. They are all individuals just as we are and won't display all the known characteristics of their breed. You never know when those characteristics and genetics may kick in, however.

I hadnt had a dog since I was a kid. My wife has always disliked dogs, or really just didnt like the way they behave, sniff,sniff,lick lick.We have 5 indoor cats. I love the cats , 3 of them play fetch and behave more like dogs than cats.
Imagine my shock when she said she wanted to bring a rescue dog home that was found at work. A rescue person had taken it home for 2 weeks and said it was a great dog, got along with his dogs and was great around kids etc. It was a male pitbull, about 18-24 months old, fixed.( or terrier mix) for insurance purposes since we dont really know if it purebred. I immediately said no f--------g way, it will get out of our fenced yard, tear up other dogs, might turn on us .Well in true form, a week later Dillion came home, ribby, but looking pretty healthy with a clean bill of health.
At first I was leary, man this was the strongest dog I had ever handled, he literally could almost pull me around at 235. Plus he might turn on me at any minute.
Fast forward a year later,man this is the best dog ever, he is playful and needs energy burned off playing, but he hardly barks, loves all other dogs that come around,(we still never let him off leash when we walk him outside our property, and best of all he absolutely loves the wife and I.
Several months ago ,some salesman moron, ignoring all the dont enter,beware dog, keep out signs, followed my wifes vehicle through the gate and walked up on her. I was by the barn, and saw Dillion fly out of the garage, that dog has no protective type training. He stopped about 5 ft in front of my wife between her and the guy, tail up hair on end all 80 lbs rippling and growled ,I thought it was a lion in the yard. Wife walked up grabbed his collar and told the guy to back out of the yard. Which he did pronto. Closed the gate and Dillion sat and yawned at the guy. I gave him a burger that night.
Anyway love my dog, idiot owners that allow the aggresive behavior in public or walk off lease shoud be penalized.
I will say thatI wouldnt hesitate to shoot any dog that started to attack, chow,pit, beagle, well maybe not a beagle.But after seeing usless arms after an attack dogs of all breeds are dangerous. My .02.
We put up alot of signs and keep the gate locked

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I've hesitated to tell this story but to show the incredible tenacity of a good pit I guess I'll go ahead. Also to illustrate the danger if one goes bad on you.

I'm the guy who posted at the top of this page about having had 5 pits in the past. The toughest one by far was a little 45 lb. female I mistakenly adopted as a rescue and did my best to rehab her with love and a good home. After a couple of years she was doing fairly well but there was just something about her. You just never quite trusted her, so I thought it best that she be made an inside dog so we could keep a watch on her.

On one particularly fateful day one of our cats shot into the house unobserved as someone was coming in. The ensuing carnage was something not to be believed. But the worst part of the deal was that it tripped some sort of mechanism in this dog's brain and she went completely ballistic. At the point I realized that she could not be stopped there was no choice left but to shoot her. Here's the part that you will not believe. I was there and I'm the one who had to do it, and I sometimes find it hard to believe myself. Anyway, the first round of .38 Spl. +P out of a 4" barrel at pointblank range right between the eyes did not faze her. She kept coming as if she had been hit with a BB. Now she might have dropped shortly after, but she showed no sign of so doing so and it took another similar round to stop her.

I only sadly and embarrassedly tell this to illustrate how relentless these dogs can be. They should never be taken lightly.

One thing we all need to keep in mind, whether we carry pepper-spray, a stick, a knife- sometimes the owners are just as big a jerk as the attacking dog. Spray or beat their dog, to get it off yours, may result in the owner attacking you. Depending on your situation it might be good to be armed enough for both possibilities. We have a fenced yard so our dogs don't get walked, but they, too, are members of our family and harming them would be a mistake if either of us is near. Glad the OPs and others dogs are well- as for pits, I try not to discriminate, but as said before, with all the stories about pits attacking, it's hard NOT to have a little prejudice when I see one coming. I know folks who have pits they love, and swear would never hurt anyone- but then again we have the story here & there like"he's never done that before". I pray we are all prepared, and if it happens, we react properly. Another situation where as Ayoob says, we should consider, even practice, for as many possible events as we can.

Take a hint. I DON'T CARE!!

What I do is my business. Mind your own.

If I save my dog, whatever happens to me doesn't matter. If what I do doesn't meet your approval, tough. Get over it.

This thread isn't about me anyway. So can we move on?

You've hit the nail on the head, we each do what we think is best. People should take in both sides of the issue, but in the end YOU chose and live with the consequences. Others thoughts won't matter then.

I will never understand why the need to own this type of animal exists?

Only had one contact with a pit bull, and it was many years ago. A close friend had a mixed breed that was poisoned when it was a pup. The chemicals messed up his brain, and he was forever a puppy. Elton was @ 6-8 years old, and had a comfortable life. He loved everybody and everybody loved him. My friend would secure an inside door and and had a doggy door so Elton could come and go as he pleased. A pit bull got into the yard (it was fenced and gates were padlocked) and followed Elton into the house. He killed Elton in my friends kitchen. Blood and gore were slung up to the ceiling.

Every time I hear someone talk about how loving a pit bull is, I think about cleaning that kitchen because my friend (who was a Nam Vet and former Marine, holder of the Silver Star and 2 Purple Hearts) couldn't.

As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of pit bulls.

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

People say the same sorts of things about their CHILDREN when they rob, rape or murder somebody or get shot trying to do so. The fantasy worlds that people create around their dangerous animals... or relatives, have no relevance to your right to peacefully go about your business in public.

Here in America beyond the basics needed for survival,i.e., food, shelter, etc. "need" rarely has anything to do with the things we tend to acquire.

I often hear gun grabbers ask "who needs an assault rifle"?

Well, probably nobody.

Who needs 20 different J-frames?

Nobody.

It's what we want, not what we need that counts.

Individuals just have to assume personal responsibility for bad choices if they make them.

My son just back from Afghanistan has bought himself a 7-week old male Pit Bull puppy. Having heard negative comments about this breed for most of my life I've been reluctant to accept his choice as being either positive or rational, and that's been pretty much justified at least to some degree. My two Jack Russells, a 9-year old male and a yearling female, have generally gotten along with the pit, but when it comes to feeding time, the pit's inner-nature comes to the front and he is very aggressive with both dogs, allowing them near the food bowl only after he is finished. I took such exception to this behavior that the pit is now kept at a different residence. The owner-engendered lore concerning this breed is, in my opinion, almost laughably misleading, ascribing to them traits that I have never noticed in any specimen with which I have become acquainted. The truth of the matter is quickly discovered by perusing dozens or hundreds of lurid headlines relative to pits found in news media around the world. The fact as shown by a long history is that this breed can be a ticking time-bomb waiting to explode. To ignore such fact is to leave any pit's owner with substantial legal exposure and very often a prejudiced jury who will usually find in the plaintiff's favor. Not to mention the terrible memories of your own dog having caused serious injury or even death to another dog or human being.

I like dogs but don't own one, as I previously couldn't afford to, and live in a small, cramped apartment that wouldn't be appropriate for any dog I'd want to own.

That being said, I base my comments on the individual actions of a particular dog, not the breed in general, although some breeds have EARNED particular reputations to a large degree.

When I was in college, the guy up the hall from me in the dorm had a large black lab named "Grover". For whatever reason, he thought it was a good idea to give the dog LSD. (At the time, it was also a fad there to give people acid without telling them.)

The acid caused Grover to have a Jeckyl and Hyde personality. One moment, he'd walk up to you, sniff your hand and walk away. The next, he'd try to kill you. He chased several people (myself included) in my dorm and the one behind it.

Then Grover chased the wrong guy. His latest victim had been mauled by a dog as a child and while he didn't have a problem with the "dorm" dog "Nubbs", a dobermann mix, he was REALLY afraid of aggressive dogs. Grover chased him into the dorm, whereupon he went to his room and equipped himself with a .36 Navy replica, a cavalry saber, and a replica .58 Zouave rifled musket (with bayonet). He then went out looking for Grover, who was exceedingly lucky not to be found.

The rest of us called the police who directed us to the Fulton, MO Animal Control Department. Animal Control showed up in the form of a lone female, armed with... a length of clothesline to tie through Grover's collar and be used to drag him back to her truck. We warned her that that was probably an ill-advised course of action, which she naturally ignored. She quickly found Grover, who sniffed her, walked away, then walked back and tried to kill her.

Concurrently, we went to the Dean of Student Life, who told the owner to get the dog off of campus IMMEDIATELY or face suspension and expulsion. Likewise we told the owner that if it went after any of us again, we'd put Grover down ourselves and that if he interfered, HIS future wouldn't be too promising either. We didn't see Grover after that, although strangely, a dog dish full of water periodically made an appearance by the owner's door.

I simply have no patience or respect for people who:

1. mistreat animals.
2. allow their animals to run loose and endanger third parties.

If your dog endangers me, I'm going to eliminate the threat. If you react inappropriately to that, the law addresses that contingency as well.

Let's be honest, people like that generally have the span of memory of a goldfish and the conscience to match.

They think ONLY of themselves, and view that animal as an extension of themselves. They couldn't care less what happens to YOU, since you OBVIOUSLY "provoked" their aggressive dog that was running around unrestrained and unsupervised. Besides, he'd NEVER do what you and frequently DOZENS of witnesses SAW him do.

By and large, they're the same people, who if you shoot their teenager while he's trying to rob you at gunpoint, will attribute to YOU the ENTIRE responsibility for the "tragedy" by not letting junior rob, rape or murder you without resistance.

The meanest looking Doberman I have ever seen belonged to a former neighbor,but she was a sweetheart and a gentle giant.Like someone else said,it's more the owners fault usually than the fault of the breed when they turn bad.

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Blessed be the Lord,my Rock

Certain breeds are bred for certain reasons. If entire cities outlaw a breed (pitbulls in miami), insurance companies won't insure the owner of that breed or you find hundreds of horror stories about a particular breed than it's probably a lot the breed, a little the owner. Plenty of different types of people own snakes. That doesnt keep them from eating your kitten.

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S&W 686-6 Plus Pro Series

wow some folks really believe the stories about pit bulls. Do you folks think all gun owners are bad people, the same folks say so...

Some pit bulls are in bred crazy unstable dogs, its true. Some are loving pets that are quite protective of their packs. Its also true that most have some level of dog aggression. Also when they play, they play rough, they bite each other, not ripping off flesh but good nips.

Spanky from the Our Gang had a pit bull, he didnt chew up any of the kids?

Owning a dog like this comes with a responsibility, just as a firearm, a car and lots of other things in life.

I cannot believe the folks on this forum would support a breed specific ban. Its no different that any of the stupid assault weapon bans, or reduced magazine limits. Freedom for some and not for others, I suppose.


Last point, shoot my dog, I shoot you, you will be dead before the dog hits the ground. It goes like this, officer that cazy man shot my dog then pointed the gun at me...

Yes I do own what you folks would call a pit bull, I have had her since she was four to five weeks old, tiny little thing. Shes going on thirteen years now and is starting to show her age. Do I let here roam freely, no. Shes in our one acre yard with an invisible fence, never went through. She will run up to here point barking, then slams on the brakes and stops before the buzzing of the collar. Mostly at other dogs or the deer last week it was the wild turkeys.

When she was younger we'd go socialize with other dogs, she be free. The other owners were ok with some rough housing. She could knock other dogs down off their feet really quick. She has a way to trip them and give a hip check, over they go. She could run really fast, very fast. One day someone had a rescue gray hound she couldnt get it but really tried. She got so frustrated she started to make a yelping whoof as she ran. The gray hound people loved it gave their dog a great run.

Sorry, I dont have stories for attacking animals. In fact she gentle with small animals, just wants to sniff them. Our terrier/begal mix kills everything it can find, mice, squirrels, moles, chipmunks, rabbits...

I don't recall anyone here, at any time, stating they would shoot a dog unprovoked. Rather, it was you who came to this thread and said you would shoot a human being simply for defending themselves against your dog.

Comments like the one you made above are exactly why some people call for background checks and mental health checks for folks who want to purchase/possess/carry a firearm.

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NRA Pistol,PPITH,PPOTH&TASER

If your dog attacks me, I'm going to shoot it. If you make yourself an immediate credible threat to my life and limb, I'll deal with you as appropriate.

I neither trespass nor provoke other peoples animals when in public places.

You have a DUTY to control and confine your animals. If you do so, they should have no OPPORTUNITY to bite anyone.

If on the other hand, you neither confine nor control them and they become a threat, anyone threatened by them has a right to protect themselves.

If your dog attacks me and I shoot it, and you attempt to murder me and survive, I'll make sure you're too broke to pay attention... AFTER you get out of prison.

What do you consider aggression? Barking, charging looking meanly?

If the dog runs toward you with its hackle up barking, fire away?

Whats the line in the sand? being bit?

When is it OK to shoot someones pet?

Secondly in order to interact with my pets, you are either in on my property or somehow feel its OK to reach in 20' from the road.

Is 20' to close,

shoot'em now or wait till we go home


As far as protecting my pets, I dont see it all so different that protecting your children, we just dont shoot them when they misbehave.


I need a backround check, but you want to shoot my dog, while trespassing or 20' away and use my house as a back stop.

Exactly who needs a metal health exam?

Think its easy to shoot a dog, your more likely to shoot yourself in the leg or foot.

Dont believe me google it

You should probably qualify all of your parameters before you make arbitrary statements like, "...shoot my dog, I shoot you, you will be dead before the dog hits the ground...". That will save you from having to come back to clarify your position later.

That said, dogs are generally treated as property under most state laws I'm aware of, so unless your state law allows you to use deadly force against someone who commits a property crime against you, it probably wouldn't be wise to shoot someone just for harming your dog (as bad as you or I may want to), and it certainly isn't wise to go around saying you would on a public forum if it is contrary to your state law.

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NRA Pistol,PPITH,PPOTH&TASER

I would not wager on that, I feel threatened by a man shooting a gun I have a right to protect myself?

Is the dog attacking you, or making you feel threatened?

Quote:
"Originally Posted by wheelgun28 View Post
<snip>....Last point, shoot my dog, I shoot you, you will be dead before the dog hits the ground. It goes like this, officer that cazy man shot my dog then pointed the gun at me...
....<snip>
I don't recall anyone here, at any time, stating they would shoot a dog unprovoked. Rather, it was you who came to this thread and said you would shoot a human being simply for defending themselves against your dog.

Comments like the one you made above are exactly why some people call for background checks and mental health checks for folks who want to purchase/possess/carry a firearm."
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Not to mention that you just made a permanent, non-erasable, worldwide admission that you have plans for first-degree murder and how you will try to cover it up... which WILL be found if you are in a contested civil shooting. Niiiiiiiiccce..... 20 seconds of posting, and PRESTO! ...a lifetime of legal liability. Good job.

Sorry, I thought it was implied in with the rest of my long winded story


You are correct that pets are considered property in most places. However, some folks are extremely attached to them. There is a movement to change the laws regarding the property aspect of pets. I think its by the trial lawyers, so you know why they want it, more business.

I am not at all worried, trust me. The chances of someone coming here to shoot anything are like winning the power ball and mega in the same week.

Its really verbal gymnastics

The old saying is forget the dog beware the owner...

Again, seems like common sense is AWOL again. Control your dog, especially if it's a large intimidating breed. If you do not, then YOU are responsible for what occurs afterward. On your property or not, you are legally responsible to control them. End of story. If someone hurts your dog and it's under control, then they will end up on the wrong end of the justice system. These are the common sense conclusions.