1. There is the feeling I see from some that if I have a CCW and a weapon I am secure.
2. This isn't completely true.
3. Without awareness and practicing avoidance you are still vulnerable to attack.
4. Vulnerable to prosecution for the misuse of a firearm.
5. Vulnerable to prosecution for assault with a deadly weapon.
6. Vulnerable to murder charges by the misuse of a firearm.
7. Vulnerable to be sued for damages suffered by a firearm discharge.
8. Vulnerable to losing your firearm.
9. Vulnerable to being killed by your own firearm.

To be secure involves much more than packing.
1. It involves be awareness of your surroundings.
2. It involves avoiding problems.
3. It involves using techniques like verbal judo to reduce the likelihood of a confrontation.
4. It involves knowing the self defense laws as it pertains to a firearm.
5. It involves trying to avoid a confrontation rather than confronting it.
6. It involves knowing what to do when confronted by the police after a shooting.
7. It involves knowing when to run even if you are packing.
8. It involves not isolating yourself.
9. It involves having a plan of what to do when faced with a possible assailant, whether the shooting will be seen as self defense, knowing what to say when you talk to the police, having self control to know when to stop defending yourself, knowing when to stop shooting so your actions are seen as assault and/or murder, knowing when you can shoot, etc.
10. You may protect your family but how is everybody going to feel if you go to far and end up in prison for years for excessive force and/or murder because you went to far.

People must realize there is no security in defending yourself and going to far. You accomplished the saying: "It is better to be tried by 12 then carried by 6" but your kids may grow up without a father.

Try being secure in the fact that when you do defend yourself that you don't orphan your kids, kill an innocent person, don't kill your children and/or your wife while trying to defend them, avoid a lawsuit, etc. There is no security for you and your family if you can't control your temper and emotions. Part of being secure is knowing that how you respond to a lethal threat in a way that won't put you behind bars, have you arrested, have to fight charges by the DA for murder and going to far.

What kind of security does it offer your kids and wife if their Dad doesn't follow the self defense laws and has to leave them for prison time. Did you really fully protect your family from harm? I don't know about any of you but to having to leave your family because you ignored the laws of self defense shows you partially protected them but you failed to protect them against the loss of a father.

A CCW, owning a firearm, and packing a firearm are only a part of what it takes to protect yourself. Another what if scenario I think not. Being secure also involves protecting your family and children.

Very nice read, but the way i look at it is as simple as this, two things....1) use common sense. 2) if you dint consider all of the above and some... your disrespecting all of us gun owners who do and are very careful of how we go on about our day to make sure we represent gun owners properly so that we dont put the image out there of careless hill billy's that shoot at anything that moves.

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Aim small miss small

But what if it's a bear? Man, I miss bear threads!

Cliff? Cliff Claven...calling Cliff Claven.

good read, heres my point of self defense. you have two options
#1 you are dead
#2 your attacker or threat is dead.
If in my head and heart I know that by taking a life the only other out come is I am dead. If this is true then let the chips fall where they may. I HAD NO OTHER OPTION BUT TO PULL THE TRIGGER OR DIE!
To me that is self defense in a nut shell.

Deep thoughts by sirrduke2010.

I also miss the bears.

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

I think a 10mm is perfect for bears.

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

good read .. still nothing in it one wouldnt get from a Nebraska CCW class.
I think bears are over done ... how about mimes ... do you really need a silencer?

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it just needs more voltage

I think what the OP is saying in a nutshell, that most of us would agree with, is that CCW is a major decision and not one to be taken lightly. One should use maximum common sense and maturity in this decision and in how they conduct themselves when carrying...

till you dig through all the past history and determine that the OP has yet to address when its time to shoot. Rather he poses rare, and obscure scenarios where the gun is unnecessary and even a liability ... yup, it can happen ... 0.0002% of the time.
the pattern is so pronounced I have long believed that the OP plays for the anti gun team, but thats my opinion ... back track, read, and form your own.

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it just needs more voltage

A gun is a tool, and not everyone is great with tools. Just because you are handed a paintbrush does not make you Michaelangelo. You can't wander around with blinders on, you need to realize who you share the streets with. I have always said if most people knew who was wandering the streets at any time during the day half of the people would stay home and the rest would want to be armed.

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Vaya con Dios

". I have always said if most people knew who was wandering the streets at any time during .." I unfortunately do think about who's out there on the streets. I would guess you're a cop or similar job, and it's a good warning- the warnning being stay aware of your surroundings. The fact that so many BGs are out there is partially due to the revolving door on our 'justice system.' It's time we demanded 'justice' include keeping the BGs away from society, from decent human beings. Yes, there's lots to consider when carrying/using a firearm, but as said, common sense is the key. If you don't have it, you shouldn't have the gun. If you have both, then you do as also said before- you make the best decision you can at the moment to defend your family's life, your own, and be prepared for what comes next.

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No work? No eat. 2 Thes

1. If you shoot a mime and nobody's around, will he make a sound?

2. I wonder if that "invisible box" is bullet proof. Would armor piercing ammo be in order?

You guys are missing the additional deep question; what if the bear is a mime? Would the 10mm then do the job, would it be "bearly" enough or too little?

These are the deep questions inquiring minds want to know......

Put my name in the hat, thanks for the chance at the 10mm bear karma!

a friend of an uncles cousin back in the pre ccw days had administered his 10 1/2 to the hind quarters of a bear .. as the story goes, it ended well ... for the bear

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it just needs more voltage

Thank God Duke numbered this post of his. That really is a nice touch. It makes it so much more..... Well, Duke-y.

Everyone knows Bears don't mime. Deer, now Deer do the mime thing. Why don't bears mime? I have no idea. But I do know you guys are making more sense than Duke.

Cracker57 you nailed it on the head man.... And you numbered it keeping with the theme of the OP.

1. Take what someone wants to dish out to you, or
2. Defend yourself.

After that it's all nonsense.
You do
what you gotta do
and any doo doo
after you do
what you had to do
is irrelevant.

It kinda sounds like the OP has given this some thought and that is a good thing As far as the 10mm for bear, I would go with taking along my Son's girlfriend and this...................

Peace,
Gordon

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better have that checked

Miming requires "jazz hands" which requires opposable thumbs, limiting wildlife miming to koalas, opossums, pandas, primates and sorta, kinda raccoons. So no bear claws.

Damn, now I want tasty bear claws. BRB

Squirrels have thumbs, too, but never underestimate the ingenuity of a bear. Screw Darwin, opposable thumbs be damned, he's got jazz paws!!!

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

Jazz hands give me the creeps.

Whatever. I'm sure Buffalo Bore makes a super powerful round for shooting miming animals.

I like bear claws too. I've never used a 10mm on a miming koala bear, but I would!

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

Thanks. Now I got an image of an exploding koala bear in my head. Poor koala bear.

SirrDuke, I sincerely hope that you are trying to learn the art of self defense with a firearm. It is an art which many take seriously and some sadly do not.

But sometimes I think you worry too much. Learn yes. Worry no.

And to you funny bear thread guys, it ain't funny.

I've been chased by bear. Seen them shot. And shot one myself. And I'm here to tell you that there is not one single hand gun round that I would count on with the exception of a 500 or 460.

A 10 or 12ga slug works wonders.

The ones in Kentucky and Tennessee seem to run 200-400 pounds at most. I found out last year that I don't have a desire to try and outrun them and that they get bored around fire towers [and that bear p*** requires four trips through the car wash for the Jeep]. But I have been told that hot 357 will do the trick, though I have not seen it myself and don't want to meet Ranger Bob should it be required.

I grew up in Alaska and they were just a "little" bigger.

Man, you were chased by a bear???

Talk about scary. Wow.

And McBear, why did you have to mention bear claws....
Those tasty glazed doughnuts with the carmel and chocolate frosting... Now I want a bear claw... and it's a 20 minute drive to town!

Does a bear know what "CTG" means and does it care?

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Sure you did

The post was rather painful to try to read, but some of the points are well-made, if a bit over the top. A firearm is a tool, and should not be carried unless the carrier is willing to use it if needed.

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An armed society

Please BEAR with me,whilst I give this deep consideration.

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Blessed be the Lord,my Rock

Yes, twice. I was 15 or 16. We were fishing. I was walking back to camp with some fish in a net over my shoulder. I just happened to look behind me a saw the bear about 20 yards back. All he wanted were the fish. After a short chase, he got them cause I dropped them.

Shortly after that my dad bought me my first gun. A Ruger Blackhawk 44 mag. About six years later I shot a brown bear with that gun when he decided he wanted my fish and I decided he couldn't have them. Might have been the same bear.

People don't realize that when a bear gets old and lazy, he looks for an easy meal. And he isn't too old or lazy to maul you to get want he wants.

My neighbor grew up in Fairbanks. He once told me a story about being chased by a wolf while he was riding a dirt bike. And no, the wolf wasn't riding the bike.

what a sissy. didn't you have a filet knife

If you had pondered that scenario beforehand, would you have been prepared?

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

No, I wasn't prepared. My ole man had the 44 at the fishin hole which left me unarmed. That's why he bought me my own. Most of the time we had a 12ga close by. But I forgot that too. Typical teenager.

I once worked with a fella who hunted bears with switches.... He was soooo ugly the bears turned and ran! Now that's what l call hunting with a silencer... As l remember he used to practice in the office by stalking fellow workers and swatting at them when they least expected it... so he was prepared, practiced with his weapon and applied it in the face of danger... you might say he hunted with the "bear" necessities!

HG

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Isaiah 55:8-9
Phil. 4:13

Funny how these threads progress isn't it? We need to rename it "Bear Stories".

Sir Duck's posts are unbearable, so turning this into a bear thread is fitting.

I just can't imagine running from a bear. I hear they are pretty fast, so I'd be terrified.

OKhog shtr said "practiced with his weapon and applied it in the face of danger... you might say he hunted with the "bear" necessities!"
The kanew said "
Funny how these threads progress isn't it? "
Progress? Is that what you call it? "bear necessities"..ouch....

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No work? No eat. 2 Thes

Could dark times be bruin for those who pack heat? Dukie tries to convey the grizzly truth as he sees it, but I just can't bear to read the whole post. I am sure some will paws and consider his deep thoughts and not sluff it off as a pile of scat. Me? I'll have a bowl of porridge, fondle my 10MM, and try not to think too much.

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Morality >religion

Self Defense is a complex animal.

It is more than pulling a firearm out of your inside hostler, pointing, and/or shooting. Unless one learns the full context of what self defense is about we put ourselves at risk of becoming the unwitting victim of our good intentions. I have tried to push this thought but as I have seen other good intentioned self defense gun wielding advocates who have used excessive force and found themselves tried for assault charges all the way to life in prison there is more to using your weapon in self defense.

You have to prove the threat is lethal which could be hard under certain circumstances. A woman of 5' firing a handgun against a man of 6'2" for fearing for her life could be considered self defense but another man of 6'3" in the same situation after being shoved using a weapon could be considered assault with a deadly weapon and/or murder if he kills the other man.

OK some think I am ridiculous. The mere fact in a mugging when jumped by 4 how easily are you going to be able to get to your weapon? Do you have the time? Maybe they just take your gun from you and steal it. To avoid being jumped it could have been as easy as being aware and avoid a suspicious group of men.

The biggest problem I see is the reliance that somehow carrying a revolver on his or her person will eliminate the threat of being victimized. Yes having a gun is a great deterrent and a great self defensive weapon. But without integrating into a Multi-Dimensional self defensive system it is yet another tool which by itself is incomplete.

I see many that don't have a gun, don't have a CCW, but are more prepared to take on a threat than some of the people on here. I see the dependence on carrying weapon as a way to protect one's self as a handicap. I see with some that it is a very fast way to put yourself behind bars. It is a very strong self defensive tool when used in the right way, with awareness and avoidance, and with having knowledge of when and where you can use it.

Ive always found this quite simple. If you have a gun and they dont stop advancing. They are attempting to take your firearm and harm you. 1 verbal warning "STOP OR ILL SHOOT" 1 visible warning (level the gun) 1 more visible warning (muzzle flash)
You gave 3 warnings, they refused to correct their actions..... you had to do it!

Digital microcontrollers and their programming are complex animals. Analog guitar effect pedals are also complex animals.
self defense is not electronics engineering and dates back to before the discovery of fire when teeth ruled the battlefield.
few things in nature lack the capacity to defend. Even reptiles can do it. heck .. even a few fungi such as the amanita virosa mushroom can assure no repeat offenders.
Yup ... Mans infinite capacity for foolishness has resulted in some complications ... all of which, again, are addressed in any proper course.
how so? physically attacking anyone is not a rational act.
In any such case, some form of response is warranted and the response, in generic terms, is not a course of action chosen by the victim. the thug chooses the road to violence.
We just choose to bail out of the car before it gets to the cliff.
yup .. some do think you are ridiculous
Situational awareness is addressed in any decent CCW class. these permits do not come out of crackerjack boxes.

Where in here do you see this? I've missed this memo.
some talk a big game .. sure. but nearly all who call you on these threads seem pretty aware of the mechanics of self defence. In fact, so aware to my awareness, I wonder if you have any awareness at all. these threads ALWAYS go like this.
Most of us enjoy Chuck Norris flicks too. However we have no delusions that we are Chuck Norris, Jet Li, Jackie Chan, or Steven Segal

its these statements that lead me to believe you are an anti gun insurgent ... tell Sara Brady I, a staunch supporter of the full second amendment, extend my heartfelt condolences for the hardships she has endured since Hinkley shot her husband.
we won't be without em

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it just needs more voltage

1. Always go afield with someone that runs slower than you.
2. There will be #2

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Memory of Randy Freas-Rimfired

Sirrduke has about convinced me, a 54 year old disabled veteran, that I don't need a gun for self defense. I should take a karate class and get rid of my pistol before I get in trouble. Wouldn't want someone to misunderstand my actions

(in an attempt at complete disclosure, the "disabled" and "veteran" are not related)

Thank goodness we're back on bears!

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

Just out of curiosity I perused sirrduke's 161 posts and there doesn't appear to be a single one that leads me to believe he owns a gun. Posts about cleaning kits and a holster that he wanted to sell, yes, along with his usual tidbits of wisdom that can be found on any other site. But not a single post replying to pocket carry experience, how a particular round shoots in his gun, trigger pull on his favorite revolver, his first .22 revolver etc., nothing that resembled a normal post on a firearms forum by a firearms enthusiast.
Not that firearm ownership and discussion of said firearms is a requirement to post on a public forum designed for firearms enthusiasts. But I do think it's odd.

I have a CCW, I own revolvers, and I practice situational awareness with regularity. That said, some time ago, while in the back yard on a beautiful moonlit night, I shot a bear in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don't know.

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I'm with the banned ...

Interesting observation. In view of OP's prominent posts, I don't think that the apparent implication of his posting history is odd. Even though you do think it's odd that he posts here, I guess we're really saying the same thing.

The OP kinda reminds me of my wife's cousin. He teaches martial arts (some obscure forms of kung fu that I couldn't begin to pronounce). He was actually telling his students to carry a baggie filled with a mixture of sand and cayenne pepper. I explained to him that they have this stuff called pepper spray....
Recently he's been asking me a lot of questions about handguns as he has realized even Jackie Chan isn't bullet proof. The problem is he envisions himself coming out with a pistol in each hand, guns a blazin! Some folks watch to many movies.

I sorta get that vibe as well ... like a fear mongering marketing angle that never seems to make it past the fear mongering part.
Dont get me wrong .. theres nothing wrong with the martial arts. I used to be into tai quan do. might come in handy in a gun fight, but not as handy as my 45.
Ive thought about all sorts of whiz bang defensive gadgets as well .. many could be a scale tipper. but reality is when you pare it down to the most effective pieces of gear. nothing surpasses a gun.

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it just needs more voltage