I'll be interested in the follow-ups to find out what precisely happened; the preliminary report leaves a lot unanswered.

Sad story, regardless -- and a reminder about vigilance and precaution with gun safety, always.

Police: Hug Triggers Officer's Gun, Kills Woman - ABC News

I'm going to call BS on this initial version of events, until, I hear more facts.

Hug triggers officer's gun, kills woman | 11alive.com

Somewhere the trigger got hugged too I assume. A discharge with femoral artery involvement? Alcohol involvement????

__________________
NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

Unless the officer had the worst holster in the world, which I doubt, I can't imagine how this could have happened unless the gal was trying to remove the firearm.

Another reason to dislike the horizontal shoulder holster.

At a party, so alcohol involvement is a reasonable assumption.

Apparently a chest wound; reports are she hugged the officer from behind and I presume he was wearing a shoulder holster.

Firearm might have been improperly secured; failure to engage manual safety on 1911-style weapon and the hug compressed grip safety and trigger; poorly designed, chosen or worn-out holster that inadequately covered the trigger.

Who knows? Lots of possibilities...

I do think that at least a few things would have to have gone wrong that didn't have to for this to happen, if the events occurred as reported.

I guess it could be possible, but, about as likely as the guy who died from the ricochet from his own shot at a butane tank a last month, we know how that turned out.

Steve W.

There are too many questions here to make any guess at what happened. I'm not too sure I buy the story as reported.

__________________
Even older, even crankier....

All I can say about that story Is this sure sounds like a Charlie Foxtrot!

For something like this to happen "as described" it had to be a non uniform officer wearing a horizontal shoulder rig (which would point the weapon straight back) it would have to be a semi auto carried cocked and no safety set/ grip safety defective, or possible a Glock type and her finger depressed the safety bar and then continued to move the trigger back!

Considering this is Detroit it’s a good chance the whole story is just another killing with a good but way out story!

__________________
14 S&W Revs none with locks!

Are you talking about the Miami Vice one?

I use a shoulder holster now until I get my sourdough. Mine rides under my arm and has a round butt so it's hard to kind of get from me I would think. I like AIWB. Don't know how and the hell this guys gun went off and I'm like the other guy too......skeptical as to the how part.

dan

I’m not saying that it didn’t happen as reported but things would have to have come together at precisely the right time to discharge the weapon. More likely someone had a hand on the gun.

I've always wondered why my wife wouldn't give me a hug when I was cc. Who would have thought?

None of the reports I've heard say whether or not it was his service weapon, not that it really matters, the woman's still dead. Detroit Police are issued M&P's, don't know if they have the thumb safety or not. I do know my M&P's won't fire unless the trigger's depressed, (a long way). Even if he had a Miami Vice style shoulder rig, the trigger's covered up, (isn't it? I don't have one). There's a lot more here than has been reported.

I carry a .40 HiPower in a Galco Miami Classic. The trigger is covered, and there is no way to get anyting inside the trigger guard when the gun is properly holstered. The safety is covered by the holster as well. The weapon is retained by both a thumb strap and a tension screw. As I said, it seems to me there is more to this story.

__________________
Even older, even crankier....

It was reported that the service weapon of the LEO was a SW M&P .40. Guessing that the service weapons configuration did not have the "mechanical safety". I own an M&P 9 model which includes the safety lever.

Any guesses on how the trigger became engaged while in a holster- even though the holster was rotated. Begs to ask the question on the safety of the "trigger safety" variants. Have not read many reports on SW M&P accidental discharges. Sad for the loss of life and the surviving family and officer.

the gun does not fire ..... unless someone pullllllls the trigger. Soooo, fill in the blanks, lots of missing info here

__________________
Jack C

Dancing at a party? Hugs from behind?

If he was carrying IWB she may have been reaching for something else!

He jerks away, she grabs the grip and trips falling backwards?

Per myFOXDetroit the Detroit Chief of Police, Ralph Godbee, is quoted as saying that the officer had his weapon secured in a department-issued holster around his waist.

If true, it doesn't sound like a shoulder holster is to blame.

If, as qouted, the gun was in a holster on the officer's waist, the shot into the heart seems even more perplexing.

There must be much more to this story than we've read.

Just read the same thing in a Boston paper. The cheif of police is quoted as saying the gun was secured in a soft waist holster that allowed access to the trigger. Lots of questions How does a gun pointing down someone in the chest? How does a hug from behind make contact with the trigger of a gun at your waist? Even in a soft holster, how does the trigger get pulled back? Something just seems off about this whole situation.

Agree we don't have enough facts yet, but one idea on what MIGHT have happened. Being holstered I would assume he had on a jacket, some type of covering garment. Maybe that garment had a pen, a small flashlight etc in a pocket, that could have- when hugged- stuck into the holster/trigger guard. Like someone said, several things had to come together for this to happen- this sounds like a possibility.

__________________
No work? No eat. 2 Thes

hmmm... ,maybe she was on her knees when she was "hugging" him...

__________________
Jack C

The "hug" headline makes great copy, as implausible as it seems.

__________________
I'm with the banned ...

The latest report has the Detroit Chief of Police reporting that the holster in use was an IWB holster that would normally carry the firearm barrel down. The young women who was killed took a single penetrating wound from the side that punchured 1 lung and the heart. Fanally the latest reports have this young woman "pulling" the trigger while hugging the police officer who was carrying the pistol. Finally, it was a DPD issue S&W 40 caliber M&P, I do not know if the DPD service pistols feature a manual safety.

Needless to say I don't buy any of the story as it's been related at this point. From the brief clip of Chief Godbee that I saw on the news this evening I don't think that he's buying this story either. The officer involved in this shooting is currently on Administrative Leave and I suspect that if he keeps on fabricating stories about what happened he may end up in Prison.

I believe that this is a case of a police officer showing off his service weapon at a party, probably after consuming alcohol. What I suspect happened is that he had unloaded the gun to show it off and this discharge occured when he had re-inserted the magazine and racked the slide by hand to chamber a round. Basically, he put his booger hook on the trigger, dropped the slide, and was perhaps bumped and pulled the trigger in a response "flinch". Of course this is pure speculation, however it does fit where this young women was struck and is plausible for an idiot with a load on board and a loaded pistol.

Maybe the reporter failed to mention that the cop was standing on his head when "hugged" ???

Pure speculation yes, but exactly where I'd place my wager.

__________________
I'm with the banned ...

This is exactly what I posted on FB 10 hours ago. Being from Metro Detroit - Rochester/Lathrup Village/Troy - not shocked that someone at a party died by gun fire or hugging from the knees. Didn't Kwame have the same hugs? Now he's in jail

__________________
VE40 2010 22A 1110 MPc40 706

According to evolving reports on the incident, today the Chief is quoted saying -

"Typically the barrel is facing down, but the preliminary investigation indicates that there was some manipulation along the officer's waistline that he did not control and subsequently the weapon discharged."

He stated that the Officer's .40 Cal S&W was in a waistband holster, the victim "danced up behind him on her knees" and "embraced" the off duty officer.

"Embraced" in this context sounds like an example of verbal gymnastics. Also stated was that the officer never had his hands on the pistol.

Curiouser and curiouser...

Fees like some version of this is what occurred.

Something similar happened with a SEAL in a few months back:

He was out drinking, picked up a girl at the bar and went home with her. There, showed off some of his guns, dropped the magazine on one and put it to his head to show her it was safe -- forgetting there was one in the pipe -- and pulled the trigger.

Just a godawful stupid and unnecessary death.

Navy SEAL accidentally shoots himself in head while showing off gun to woman he met in bar | Mail Online

Remains to be seen what the truth is in this case, assuming we ever know. I linked it because the first reports just didn't add up (and current ones still don't quite), and we're all served by reminders that one bad decision or a moment of carelessness is all it takes...

I have heard of a thread of string from an inseam from a shirt looping it's way around a trigger iwb before and when the guy went to take off his shirt the gun discharged. It missed the guy and he was pretty lucky. Makes ya wonder if something like that happened here.

To me I would be more inclined to believe some alcohol fueled aberrant sex involving a gun held on the girl while she was on her knees 'performing'.

Wouldn't be the first time that sort of thing happened.

This is the most appealing speculation as yet --- let's call it the "Monica Lewinsky hypothesis", for now...

I read the story in this morning's paper and find the report VERY DIFFICULT to believe! While I do not own a S&W M&P I have fired a few hundred rounds through 3 different models (up at the Factory while there on business) of the M&P and have found it to be a very good and well designed handgun. I do not see how a "hug" could get it to go off. I would like to know how much Alcohol was involved in the hug - if you know what I mean.

I believe there is a lot more to the story that has not come out yet. We'll see.............

Chief38

Well, I believe there likely is more to it too. But then sometimes guns do just "go off"... just ask this guy

Cop accidentally shoots himself - YouTube

the Monica Lewinsky hypothesis does seem the most plausible thus far.
the given story of the hug from behind would work in combination with a wardrobe malfunction but loses a pile of credibility when geometry is evaluated.

__________________
it just needs more voltage

That gun didn't "just go off".... but then it is a Glock....

__________________
Jack C

[QUOTE]"embraced the officer from behind, causing the holstered weapon to accidently discharge." The bullet punctured Miller's lung and hit her heart, and she died at a hospital."[/QUOTE

This makes no sense to me. If the weapon was in a holster attached to his waist band, how did the muzzle get tiled up enough to fire into her chest cavity? Was the officer standing on something to put raise him off the dance floor or was the victim on her knees?

No matter what happened lets never forget it's a very sad story..

Am I the only one thinking "rusty trombone"?

Is that your Smith & Wesson, or are you just glad to see me?

[QUOTE=Hapworth;136601619]Fees like some version of this is what occurred.

Something similar happened with a SEAL in a few months back:

He was out drinking, picked up a girl at the bar and went home with her. There, showed off some of his guns, dropped the magazine on one and put it to his head to show her it was safe -- forgetting there was one in the pipe -- and pulled the trigger.

Here it happens again

Israel Torres kills himself when he pulls trigger on handgun he thought was unloaded | Mail Online

Drunk at the BBQ, wanted his girl to touch the gun she wouldn't do he dropped the magazine, she still was still afraid, so put it to his head and pulled the trigger to show her it was safe!

He should have said he was cleaning it and it went off. That's what most people say when they shoot someone by accident. But he was probably too drunk to remember that.

I always clean my guns during a party, with many people around, while drunk, and a girl is hanging off me...

Sad story. It will be interesting to see what a thorough investigation reveals. Surely there were some witnesses.

Andrew

Don't count on it. They still haven't said anything about the investigation into Brian Huff's death.

You were there and saw all of this?



.

How about this: she (celebrating her birthday, by the way) playfully sneaks up behind the officer on her knees to unbuckle his belt from behind. His reaction due to being startled is to pull and twist away rapidly, perhaps causing her finger to drag across the exposed trigger. If the weapon were being carried cross draw style, and he was pulling and twisting away from someone on their knees behind him, the angles could be plausible.

Having worked for a large Holster maker for a few years after retirement, I'm familiar with several lawsuits arising from alleged holster-related discharges. The first rule to remember is that it is never your fault. Always blame the gun, the holster, the ammo or the victim etc.

It is possible, though not easy, to get the open tab of of a thumb break tangled in the trigger guard so that when the gun is forced into the holster, the tab, either the male or female side, compresses the trigger to the point of discharge. The easier the trigger is to pull, such as on a 3.5 lb Glock connector, the easier it is to cause a discharge although it borders on a parlor trick.

I don't think we'll ever know the true circumstances as civil lawyers will try to put a good spin on this and thoroughly cloud the issue with a view to suing the holster maker, S&W, etc.

In my opinion, this was a wet environment and somebody may have been showing off the gun, possibly with another person making a grab for it. Gun got snagged in holster? possible but remote. Fired while fully seated and secured in holster with thumb break in place? Virtually impossible. Coverup, most likely.

Here's another one to add to the conspiracy stories. He was dancing and then pulled out his gun to twirl it around and it went off into the girls chest. Hug is made up.

You guys should be working on wallstreet . Speculaters

when ya cant buy the story, its only natural to try to guess what really happened

__________________
it just needs more voltage