Need advice on PDW for home.

I don't feel comfortable going into great detail about this so I'm going to try to summarize and leave specifics out.

I accepted a position at a company a few months ago. They assigned me to the back room.

Constant hateful comments were made by my coworkers and boss toward an elderly coworker. A week into the job, a young coworker decided to make a completely false claim about the elderly coworker in order to oust the elderly coworker from her position and take it for himself. (Obvious EEOC violation)

My boss and the boss above him pulled me into a meeting and attempted to coerce me into corroborating the claim. I refused. They went ahead and falsely told HR that I had corroborated the claim. I went to HR to clarify that I would not corroborate the claim. HR gave the young coworker the position and punished the old coworker.

For the next few weeks I suffered reprisals of all sorts from the boss and the other coworkers. Shortly thereafter, I witnessed the elderly coworker get struck by the young employee in the face in front of the boss and another employee. Rather than barging in, I decided to see whether any action would be taken. Neither the boss nor HR did anything. On another occasion the young coworker walked up to me, pointed his fingers at my temple and made the sound of a gun going off. I tried laughing it off as a joke, but his demeanor indicated he wasn't joking. He was quite serious and quite violent. Eventually I was let go.

While there, I noticed that inventory would appear and disappear in odd places and at odd times from day to day. Inconsistencies abounded and nothing seemed to cohere like it ought. When I asked questions or pointed out problems, I was told to shut up. It was utterly disorganized and haphazard. I've never seen anything like it.

It made no sense until the other day when I started googling the owners. Apparently it may be a "family" owned business. Yeah, that kind of family.

I have had a bad gut feeling and I know that if I ignore it, I generally regret it. I don't think I'm on their radar anymore (I pray) and I am staying far away from them. But I've never felt so helpless in my life as when that coworker pretended to shoot me. If it had been real... well, I guess I wouldn't be worrying about it. Since then, I have been sleeping with a .22 rifle next to me. I know it's not ideal but it's all I have right now.

I need advice on an adequate caliber for a middle of the night go-to-gun in case something horrible does happen. I have a budget for about $500. I'm working out some makeshift alarms for my apartment door. A shotgun is out of the question due to the nature of the apartment, so I'm looking for a close-quarters pistol.

I had considered a Bersa .380 as it is compact enough to keep near me around the apartment but I am worried that should the need arise, it wouldn't be an effective cartridge. I was also considering a Girsan 1911 from Bud's because it seemed to have good reviews and appeared reliable. I don't know if .45 is a good choice, or if I would be better with a 9mm or .40. I don't know whether I should be worried about having large capacity or if a six-shot revolver is enough. Using the pistol isn't an issue, it's more of a consideration as to what will stop a threat quickly.

I could really use some advice. Got any, please?

Sounds like a nice place to work! Is there anyway you can leave this situation right a way? Just doesn't sound like a healthy place to be, physically or mentally. There's so many different opinions as to what constitutes the best caliber, so its hard to recommend one. I guess I would go with either a 9mm or a 45. 40SW can be a little difficult for a beginner. I'm thinking hollow point ammo, & stay away from +p. Since you're in an apartment, you wouldn't want something that will over penetrate & go through the walls. Why would a shotgun be out of the question?

#1...Get out right now...as in yesterday...and don't look back.

#2...Having exactly no reference to your level of competence with firearms handling, my suggestion would more likely be something like a good DA revolver with +P .38Spl or maybe a seriously reliable pistol such as a Glock 19 with high quality JHP...either of which would also make a good CCW handgun, since it sounds as if your threat situation is not confined to the workplace alone

#3...Did I mention get out now?

Durango, you can't save the world, but you can save yourself...It's not even worth the price of a weapon to stay there....Just like standing waiting for a bus...if you miss the first one, another one will come along.

Granted, times are tough, and some jobs, good jobs are in short supply, but it's just not worth it to stay there.

Do like ikor said...BAIL.......NOW....

WuzzFuzz

Ditto, get out NOW! As to the gun, any good K frame S&W .38 will do the trick.

Thanks guys. I thought I put it in there - they let me go. I'm fired. I've never been fired before. I'm grateful they did. Apparently my honesty made them really, really angry. I documented stuff and gave it to HR before I was fired. Apparently that also made them really angry (including HR, which is really odd). The whole damn place was odd. I've worked a number of places and I've never seen people act like that.

The angry part is what worries me. I don't plan on seeing these people ever again and I thought I was ok until I read up on them. Now I just want to be extra sure I'm prepared in case they are still angry.

I'll check out the Glock 19 and the K-Frame.

Thanks again.

*edit: Timn8er, I have trouble maneuvering a rifle around because of the odd floor layout, so I don't think a shotgun will be any easier.

I wouldn't worry about it. A lot of that stuff is over blown in the movies. Clearly this isnt a father/son business if they have a boss for every dpt and a HR dpt. Even if it is run by such a "family" for tgem to worry about you you would have to have a lot more on them than just disappearing office supplies.

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I sincerely hope you're right. I'm still going to go with my gut on this though.

durango said:

Thanks guys. I thought I put it in there - they let me go. I'm fired. I've never been fired before. I'm grateful they did. Apparently my honesty made them really, really angry. I documented stuff and gave it to HR before I was fired. Apparently that also made them really angry (including HR, which is really odd). The whole damn place was odd. I've worked a number of places and I've never seen people act like that.

The angry part is what worries me. I don't plan on seeing these people ever again and I thought I was ok until I read up on them. Now I just want to be extra sure I'm prepared in case they are still angry.

I'll check out the Glock 19 and the K-Frame.

Also I forgot to mention, she went to the ethics and filed a complaint and also reported to HR, but you have to remember no matter what they say they are paid by the company and work for the company, so more then likely they will rule for the company so they can say no wrong doing, as in my wife's case.

Thanks again.

*edit: Timn8er, I have trouble maneuvering a rifle around because of the odd floor layout, so I don't think a shotgun will be any easier.

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Same thing happened to my wife a week ago. She was a supervisor for Mar's products. They wanted her to fire a old, overweight, African American, for unfound reasons. She refused. They told her she was not supervisor material and over exaggerated performance issues that she has documentation to support her clams for, and terminated her. She worked for a Atwill company so they do not have to supply a copy of the termination talking points where they tell you by phone what you did wrong. Gotta see a lawyer on Tuesday, she worked for this company for over 13 years with no demerits and she has never been out of work before this. One good point when she gets unemployment it will be $90 less then when she worked and doesn't have to leave the house.

Also a lot of companies now are trying to reduce the amount of hours or terminate persons because if they work 28 hours or more they have to supply health insurance since OB-- care.

BTW she doesn't want the job back just wants the wrong doers to pay as well.

I'm so sorry to hear that, gdnagle. I hope your lawyer can help out. I'll keep you and your wife in my prayers. Agreed on OB--care and the current hiring environment. What a mess.

First off, be darn thankful that you're no longer working at that place.

Second, when you say that you think a shotgun would be just as difficult to maneuver in an apartment as a rifle....Balderdash!

I keep one of these handy as one of my home protection weapons. They're real easy to maneuver, real easy to operate, and when you wake up in the middle of the night, half asleep, and find it difficult to find the front sight of your handgun, these make things a lot easier to hit your designated target. Also, when a perpetrator looks down the barrels of one of these, there is definitely no mistaking your intent.

Balderdash, hmm?? Them's pretty strong words... Thanks for your thoughts.

How much does a shotgun spread at 10-15 feet? I have a lot of corners and interior stairs to deal with. Do you have any advice for dealing with abrupt corners with a shotgun/rifle? I think I could manage it with a bullpup, but I'm puzzled beyond that. It's the doorway/interior stair/corner thing that throws me with the long guns.

I had also considered a mare's laig as it would give more maneuverability or a Judge pistol. I was also initially considering the Circuit Judge rifle as it shoots both 45LC and .410 and I am fond of western-style revolvers.

All comes down to the layout of your abode!

In my house I can use a 6ft long mauser or a musket in the basement or first floor. Its pretty much open space. When you walk in and stand in the entrance way in front of you is the dining room followed by the family room and a kitchen on the left. The basement mimics. 3rd floor is bedrooms and closets so there something smaller is needed

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durango said:

Balderdash, hmm?? Them's pretty strong words... Thanks for your thoughts.

How much does a shotgun spread at 10-15 feet? I have a lot of corners and interior stairs to deal with. Do you have any advice for dealing with abrupt corners with a shotgun/rifle? I think I could manage it with a bullpup, but I'm puzzled beyond that. It's the doorway/interior stair/corner thing that throws me with the long guns.

I had also considered a mare's laig as it would give more maneuverability or a Judge pistol. I was also initially considering the Circuit Judge rifle as it shoots both 45LC and .410 and I am fond of western-style revolvers.

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A short-barreled shotgun (18-20 inches) really doesn't spread that much in ten feet. Believe me, it's not like it is in the movies where they make you believe a sawed-off shotgun will blow a three-foot hole in a wall at ten feet.

Even with a short-barreled shotgun, you still have to aim. Take one out to the range, draw a 30-inch circle on a piece of cardboard, step back ten feet and fire. You'll will be surprised at the relatively small spread of your pattern. Sure, it's going to be wider than your standard modified choke, but at ten feet, it really doesn't have a chance to spread out that much. Now, at ten yards, that's a completely different story.

Also, in terms of maneuverability, a 20-inch barreled side-by-side isn't that long. We're talking overall length of about 36 inches.

My own opinion on a .410 for personal defense (and remember, this is just my opinion) is that it really isn't that effective. I wouldn't go anything less than a 20 gauge.

Likewise, I'm not really sold on the Mare's Laig or the guns that are hyped as shooting either a .45 Colt or .410. To me, that's like the old saying, "Jack of all trades...master of none." The Mare's Laig looks cool, but if you ask some of the folks who own one, they aren't what one would consider as being overly accurate...and I surely wouldn't want to depend on one for my main home defense weapon.

You have to remember, the origin of the Mare's Laig was with Steve McQueen in the Western television series, "Wanted--Dead or Alive." It was designed by Hollywood for it's coolness effect. Nothing more.

When the adrenalin is pumping and the safety of you and your loved ones is at stake, most people can't accurately aim and fire a pistol with any reasonable degree of accuracy. I'm not saying that it can't be done. It's just darn hard.

That is why I recommend a good shotgun as a home defense weapon. Sure, I have a couple handguns placed around the home, but if "push comes to shove," and I have time to make a choice, I'll go for the shotgun every time.

Just my two cents.

$500 buys a Mossberg 500 or 930 and a case of mixed 12 gauge ammo.

It's a sad state of affairs that the workplace has turned into a chamber of submission and bullying!
In your case, your out and free as a bird. But your still worried about reprisals. First notify the Labor board or whatever they call it nowadays, then the local unemployment agency about the odd behavior there.
Second a shotgun is a devastating weapon, nobody wants to argue with one, and a 20ga will answer the mail just fine.
And if you can move! Change your address and phone#. If you can't move invest in a good alarm system or a dog and tell the police about the gun thing that happened at your work place. You were threatened, and should have reported it then to the police! If they don't know, they can't help you! And they will have a record of it in their files if anything does occur. Dale

I've been following this since you first posted. I can't imagine how stressful this must be, and to me it would be worth looking for a safer place, or at least hardening my security and perimeter. Locks and lights certainly come to mind.

I'd concur with the shotgun reco's. There is danger of over penetration with any round with decent terminal ballistics, so it's on the user to know the target and backstop.

You mention having to maneuver- it's generally recommended to barricade and call 911. House clearing by yourself against unknown numbers is a recipe for disaster.

Hope this all in the rear view mirror for you, asap.

2hawk said:

I'd concur with the shotgun reco's. There is danger of over penetration with any round with decent terminal ballistics, so it's on the user to know the target and backstop.

You mention having to maneuver- it's generally recommended to barricade and call 911. House clearing by yourself against unknown numbers is a recipe for disaster.

Hope this all in the rear view mirror for you, asap.

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I have to agree with 2hawk, house clearing even WITH a partner AND being fully awake AND wearing a protective vest AND being trained to do so is still a royal pain and very dangerous. Harden the bedroom door, so it's not one of those useless hollow-core doors and make sure you have a strong door jamb to match. Have a cell phone in the bedroom with you because it's too easy to disable a house phone hardline.

If someone gets in your house, barricade yourself and call 911 AND STAY ON THE LINE. That way you will be able to give a play by play to the 911 dispatcher and you will be recorded if you have to shoot, all the evidence will be there on how you tried to avoid the confrontation by NOT going out after the bad guy yourself.

A shotgun even loaded with bird shot at close range is devastating...DON'T use slugs, you're talking MAJOR overpenetration. 00 Buck is the same at close range...it will overpenetrate. So be careful of your ammunition choices.

Get an 18 1/2" Mossberg or Maveric 12 gage pump with a pistol grip and you have an ideal inside the house home defense weapon. Easy to use and move around, and enough fire power for any bad guy. It will not break your bank either.

The reason you need home protection is irrelevant; the result is the same. It only changes if you believe you'll be one against ten. That is unlikely no matter what the cause.

The shotgun is by far the best firearm for this situation. Even with limited maneuverability, it's better than a handgun. A long gun is easier to aim and you will need to aim it. Barricading yourself in is good advice.

Consider adding a home alarm. This will make a lot of noise and bad guys hate that. Plus it will wake you up and give you just a little more time and that is always a good thing.

If you are dead set against a shotgun, any of the modern polymer pistols, in any caliber 9mm and larger, will work for you. Steer clear of any low dollar 1911 clone. Regardless of what you "hear" about them, the 1911 is a precision fit design and I wouldn't recommend any of them that cost less than about $850.

The M&P and Glock are inexpensive and super reliable guns. I give the nod to the M&P because it has superior ergonomics, but the Glock will do well if you practice with it.

Also, resist the urge to get a compact gun. You don't need to conceal this gun so, bigger is better. The full sized guns are more reliable and easier to operate. The added mass allows a faster follow up shot and the longer sight plane makes them more accurate.

Save money by looking at the used market. Guns are very durable. Even if they have thousands of rounds through them, they are still good.