This situation is not out of the realm of possibility.

At night, you are the only customer in a convenience store. You are carrying. In the back of your mind is how sick you've gotten lately in seeing too many news report videos about convenience store cashiers being insanely gunned down for no good reason.

You happen to be fairly well hidden behind a tall rack of munchies at the end of the first isle. You are close to a hallway with restrooms and a back door. The cashier, an older man, is behind the counter which is not too far from the main door.

All of a sudden, a masked gunman comes running into the store and immediately runs up to the cashier. He is screaming about money and going to kill if he doesn't get it. He is wielding his gun in a wild, reckless manner. He hasn't seen you.

You are about 25 feet away from him and you have a good angle (at about his 5 o'clock) to where if you do decide to use force, the cashier would not be directly in the line of fire (he is just off to the right).

IMO, you have the following options:

1. You can try to sneak out the back door.

2. You can squat down and stay put, hoping whatever happens will soon be over without involving you.

3. You can pull your weapon, aim it at the perp, and holler for him to freeze and drop his weapon.

4. You can take aim at center mass and fire continuously until you see the perp go down -- convinced that the cashier was in imminent danger of being shot and killed.

5. You can try for a non-lethal shot, say to the legs.

A lot to consider in just the matter of a second or two. Which one would be your choice?

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M&P-9FS,Shield40,642,32ColtPPS

I would hold for his head, manuever for a clear shot and then tell him to drop the weapon. Surely he'd turn around and see who was telling him to do something. If he raised his weapon or pivoted with it raised, he gets bullets to the face. He never gets the privilege of a sight picture on me or anyone else. If I felt he was going to discharge his weapon, I cannot let him take an innocent life while I stand to intervene.

Remember that the use of lethal force laws vary from state to state.

That tall rack of munches doesn't do anything for you. It doesn't stop bullets, it doesn't allow you to see as much, it doesn't allow you to track the perp if he drops to the floor at your commands and turns to engage. The coffee area likely offers better cover. I'd likely give up concealment to gain the ability to effectively and decisively engage if I had to. I'd have a plan to move to cover once the shooting began. I don't want to get myself shot through a rack of potato chips.

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This≠DodgeCity&You≠BillHickok

Guten Tag, Biermeister. Frankly, these are not questions to be asked of strangers online. We can't advise or counsel you. We don't know your skill, or more importantly, your experience.

In certain jurisdictions, you would be 'sticking your neck out' by using your CCW when you are not directly threatened. A sitdown with a criminal law attorney might be called for, if only to gauge the potential reaction of the jurisdiction.

Not what you want to hear, I know.

Here's another you are not gonna want to hear. Posting scenario's and what you may or may not do will undoubtedly bite you in the rear if you ever do need to defend yourself. I'm 100% certain your posts will be used against you to determine you had already made up your mind before anything had ever occurred. Just something to think about.

if laying low is an option, then holding on the perp, in silence, until such time as the solidifies his intentions is also an option.
there are nearly as many what ifs in this scenario as there are what ifs.
since the perp is armed, you can take him at any time, though it may not be the best course of action.

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it just needs more voltage

I said it on the last hypothetical thread here, and I'll say it again: no one can know for certain what he or she would do, and there are a lot of possible variables here.

A scenario like this can provoke thought, certainly. But I'm not going to say on a public forum what I would do or not do. The fact is that if the situation arises I'll assess it and make what I trust will be the right decision. Sorry if that's another view you don't want to hear, but I think it's possible to "hypothetical" yourself into a corner.

I would second the suggestion to check and double-check the laws on use of deadly force in your state; but we all should do that anyway.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I think that we ALL should think about what we would do in this type of situation. I believe that the hypotheticals are a good start but real life situations may dictate an entirely different response. These types of things are very fluid and a one size fits all response will not work.

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M&P 22,22c,9c,45c
Shield 9

lets add to this that we, in a defensive position, do not get to pick the details.
drilling it down to a specific location in the store is kinda useless. You are, where you are, when it happens.
that may be over in the snack food area, it may be the bathroom, but probability leans a bit towards being at the checkout counter as we spend more time waiting in line than we do anything else.
The thing is, it needs to be approached with a fluid mentality. You could be anywhere, the perp may conduct himself in any number of ways to include passing a note with written demands. He may have friends. You may be able to read Lorcin imprinted on his glock 9
we dont get to pick anything so specific as a peach concealment position as presented. If it does go down like that, fine, work with it and from it.
The perp might even be standing beside you trying to look legit while people leave, so as to keep things simple and witnesses to a minimum, which puts you in the parking lot hearing gunshots inside. Then what?
there are nearly as many scenarios in a convenience store robbery as there are scenarios covering all of SD

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it just needs more voltage

I am not so paranoid to believe that anyone - with the exception of the NSA, who definitely monitors all of us -- is going to identify me or trace me to this website if I happen to be unlucky to get involved in a use of force situation. First of all -- I hope I am intelligent enough to make a sane, albeit quick, decision if it comes to it. In the worst case scenario (that I can imagine), my use of force might be "questioned". But I can't see a situation where I would be immediately arrested and thrown in jail, or a judge issuing a search order (which would be needed for them to confiscate my computers). I am not stupid. I am a highly respected citizen and I live squarely by the law. ANY use of force on my part is going to be a last resort and only done because I fear for my life or that of another.

But -- lets follow your train of thought for a moment. Let's say I do get put under the microscope and my computers get confiscated (the only way they could trace me to this website). What are they going to find? They are going to find an individual who openly wants to discuss what ramifications of CCW really means, and what the GENERAL limitations are under certain circumstances -- yes I know every state has different quirks, but the general aspects are pretty much the same everywhere. E.g., did the individual truly fear for his life or that of another? Did the individual use force only as a last resort? Anyone (like a judge or jury) would have to be an idiot to think that discussing this topic BEFOREHAND is somehow damaging to the person's case, IF (and it is a big if) charges were made that actually lead to a trial. This is not like Zimmerman. That dude had a bad case of what I've always called the "Wyatt Earp Syndrom". At the end of his encounter, I think he probably was getting the shinola kicked out of him, and he probably did fear for his life --- but he also definitely pushed the situation. I would have voted to acquit, but I would have held my nose in doing so.

You Zagged are not alone. There seems to be several just like you here on the forum that object to this kind of discussion. And I don't see anyone siding with me. Therefore, I am going to delete all of my posts that attempted to get an intelligent discussion going on "use of force", and I won't be broaching this topic again.

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M&P-9FS,Shield40,642,32ColtPPS

I avoid discussing hypothetical situations that concern self-defense unless I'm in the proper warrior mindset.

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I'm with the banned ...

Sorry you feel that way. Everyone's entitled to an opinion. I agree with some, not with others, and that's okay with me. It's called discourse. One of the things I love about this forum is that it so rarely becomes acrimonious or uncivil.

By the way, I saw nobody questioning your character or intelligence, least of all me. I'm sure you're an upstanding citizen and an intelligent one.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I didn't say anyone did -- or even think that. I simply wanted to interject that character counts. And if it is genuine, a person doesn't need to worry about participating in a rational online discussion.

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M&P-9FS,Shield40,642,32ColtPPS

Its one thing if something violates a rule on this site and an admin halts it. Don't think its anyone else's place to effectively grind a thread to a halt because they have some issue with it. Don't want to read it or participate in a particular topic then don't and no harm no foul.

This thread was a perfectly legitimate scenario for a thought provoking intelligent discussion and an opportunity for people to engage. No one was asking anyone for "advise" on what to do or not to do but rather a discussion on how to solve a problem. The idea of a hypothetical situation is what training is about. Without it there would be no training or competition scenarios. Real world situations are "hypotheticals" until you find yourself facing that situation or similar. No different than shooting a IDPA match with a stages like "7 Eleven being robbed" or "Camping and druggies with dogs attack" or reading self defense books from the likes of Massad Ayoob.

Funny thing about most gun forums today is they exude paranoia and total disregard for everything constitutional but the 2nd amendment. Its no wonder so many people hate "gun nuts". This forum could really be more than just repetitive threads for "I found ammo" or to brag about the gun you just bought. Someone comes along and does that and the lot of you, some more subtle than others, disembowel him.

Hypothetically, if a thread lapses into bickering should it be closed?

I vote yes.