CC what do you do if you can't enter

[Bundesheer]

I have a question to you that carry concealed.
Entering a facility that you can’t carry concealed can be a pain in the rear.
Scenario:
Wife calls me at 4:30 p.m. with the sweet request to go to the hospital on my way home and pick up something from Room 203 were our neighbor is admitted. O k-ey if I have to.
The hospital has huge signs on all entrances that weapons are not allowed.
What shall I do?
Leaving the weapon in the car makes me guilty to leave a weapon non controllable for me in case my car gets hit.
Take it with me and they call the police on me if I am in good luck today??????

How do you handle the problem.
One answer my neighbor came up with.:
Concealed means concealed, means no one knows it - right? So why should he have a permit when no one anyway knows that he is carrying. Huummmm
He said concealed means concealed even in a hospital, post office or elsewhere. If someone noticed than it’s called open carry.

Well he is right but I have the feeling there are a lot people out there that disagree.

So how do you guys handle the problem?

[Old cop]

Depending on what the law says in your area you could be arrested if you carry where prohibited, probably not worth the risk. The only option I see is to put the gun in the trunk of your car, or some other secure (buy a car safe?) spot if you have a truck or SUV.

[ISCS Yoda]

So why should he have a permit when no one anyway knows that he is carrying.

That's jingoistic horsepucky and the subject of a whole different commentary on the law of licenses or permits, the Second Amendment, allowable restrictions, etc. So let's ignore that. He has no clue what he's talking about.

===================================

You have several choices; I'll break it down based on your remarks:

1.

The hospital has huge signs on all entrances that weapons are not allowed.

There are two issues. First, is this the hospital's rule or, second, is this a state law? If it's a state law then you're committing a crime if you carry your gun in there. If it's the hospital's rule it's enforceable only insofar as they can discover the gun and ask you to leave. It's not a crime until they know about the gun and ask you to leave, at which point you are a trespasser and possibly a criminal trespasser depending on the jurisdiction.

If it's just a hospital rule they cannot simply call the police if they ask you to leave and you comply. You would have to refuse to comply first. If you're violating a state law then, yes, they can call the police.

2.

Leaving the weapon in the car makes me guilty to leave a weapon non controllable for me in case my car gets hit.

In my world that's a big so what?!?!, so your car gets broken into and your gun gets stolen. Annoying, yes. An expense, yes. But if it's legal to leave your gun in the car then there is no crime, it's just an expensive annoyance. You feel badly a gun went onto the street in the hands of a criminal? It happens; so you have to decide, violate the rule about the gun in the hospital or worry about the gun in the car in a fairly safe hospital parking lot. Not rocket science in my book.

3.

You asked what would I do? Well, if I know it's just a hospital rule and not a crime from the outset then I'd carry my concealed handgun, keep it concealed, and keep my mouth shut. What they don't know won't hurt them and it's just a private rule so no harm, no foul, end of story. If it's a crime from the get go then I have to decide if I want to commit a crime and if I do not then I lock the gun in the vehicle and go about my business. Nobody here on this Forum ever advocates committing a crime; you're a law abiding gun owner, we all are, so that's where you draw the line.

I know many folks who happen to have a different answer, namely, they would ask, in consternation, why are you even asking the question? You think about that reaction - I am a CHL instructor and I get that from folks all the time.

***GRJ***

[Arik]

Gun in car

[P&R Fan]

I know in Iowa it is not a State law banning firearms in hospitals.
About 9 years ago I had a armed Bodyguard assignment. My client was terrified her husband was going to kill her. I moved in with her. She was gynecologist. Had to accompany her to work. First morning when we got there she asked me to go down to the cafeteria and get some breakfast. First person I saw in there was a local Police Officer working Security. I know a lot of local cops, but not this one. Figured I'd better tell him what I'm doing. Went up, handed him my business card and told him I was providing Bodyguard services to the good Dr. HE knew her, and told me her husband was a pretty bad guy. (Great). I was fully prepared for his next question: "Are you armed?" I replied in the affirmative. He said"Uh, hospital rules say, only Law Enforcement can carry a gun in the hospital". Now, notice he said hospital rules, NOT Iowa law. I did not say a word in response, I just waited for him to finish that thought, hopefully in my favor. He paused, looked at me and said "Well, I guess it will be alright".
I thanked him profusely.

There are signs on the hospital now stating no guns allowed. I'll just leave it at that, and not comment on what I do when I'm there.
Jim

[Bundesheer]

I let the gun in the car since I would break a TX state law.
But I feel not right to leave the gun in the car.

What I am doing is, I take the Magazine with me. A Mag with bullets is still not a weapon - right? I know they can get a Mag faster than I can walk, silly me but is peace of mind, at least for me.

[10mmillie]

Those signs are like speed limits signs sometimes I notice them sometimes I don't. I try to obey the laws all the time but sometimes I don't. I think those places should have lock boxes like at jail sallyports because I'm not leaving it in my vehicle.

[Jaysq]

It depends on the law of your state. Some states give the power of the law to the property owners and their posted signs and others do not. I do not carry where the law says I can't. I do not believe in concealed means concealed. If it is against the law I don't carry.

I have a Club Personal Vault in my vehicle which works great for this type situation. While it would not stop a real pro, it will make it very hard for the break and grab thief.
Amazon.com: The Club LB200 Personal Vault Security Lock Box: Automotive@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41WSIaHA-GL.@@AMEPARAM@@41WSIaHA-GL

[ibewbull]

Wisconsin law stated if approached to and told to leave because signed no carry that you are trespassing you do not go.

Not included in post offices , police dept.and court house.
Know the laws and make your choice. Out of sight is out of mind.
Now If I am in IL I just keep driving.
NJ I drive around totally.
I look at the carry map when visiting Virginia and plan accordingly.

[Smoke]

Ok first thing there is a language barrier here, English isn’t the OP’s first language so cut him some slack on his terminology.

As you pointed out you may not legally carry the gun in the Hospital if it has the proper 30.06 (Ironic that) signage.

Regardless of how you feel you have to leave the gun in your car. As others have suggested get a car safe/ lock box for your gun.

[Ransom]

My simple test: If I could be arrested for carrying somewhere, I leave the gun behind. It doesn't matter if it's concealed because something out of my control could happen to reveal it. If I will not be arrested but just asked to leave, then I carry it.

[scott1970]

I carry anyway and ignore the signs.

[snubbyfan]

Unless it's a government building or a school. in my snubby goes with me.
Otherwise, it goes in a little lock box in my vehicle.
Let me add that if I know I'm gonna be in one of those silly gowns in a hospital or clinic, the snubby goes in the lock box.

[gdnagle]

My hospital is posted so I leave in the vehicle. I am also HC so I can park front row which is a little safer. Hospitals are good grounds for B/E because BG usually knows the timing of security and that you will be there awhile if they see you going in. If you're have bad feelings about leaving in the vehicle lock box or take the slide off a auto loader. It doesn't take long to take it off. You'll be stuck with a revolver though. Like I said I can park right up front so it doesn't bother me and truck has a alarm so it will draw attention to them breaking in. I've said it before as cheap as they are an alarm added to you vehicle can give a little piece of mind from a smash and grab if you have a lock box. And as above I have a club box and just put the cable through something solid.

[Watchdog]

Originally Posted by Bundesheer

The hospital has huge signs on all entrances that weapons are not allowed.
What shall I do?

Lock the weapon in the car...out of sight and secured with a steel cable lock or a small one-gun safe secured to the floorboard.

Originally Posted by Bundesheer

One answer my neighbor came up with.: Concealed means concealed, means no one knows it - right? So why should he have a permit when no one anyway knows that he is carrying. Huummmm
He said concealed means concealed even in a hospital, post office or elsewhere. If someone noticed than it’s called open carry. Well he is right but I have the feeling there are a lot people out there that disagree.

No, your neighbor is not right. Carrying concealed into a facility that doesn't permit it, and has signs posted to that effect, is risky at best. If you're caught, you'll lose your permit (here, anyway), you'll have your gun confiscated, and it's entirely possible you'll wind up sitting in the back of a police car on your way to the slammer. Then your wife will have to come down and post bond for you.

Plus, in addition to armed security guards, some hospitals and other large medical facilities are installing metal detectors or the guards will run the wand over you...or a combination of both.

It isn't worth the risk. Leave it locked in your vehicle. Or leave it at home. Your choice.

[ISCS Yoda]

Originally Posted by scott1970

I carry anyway and ignore the signs.

My point, exactly, about what people ask me, because people do this routinely.

For the record, since I was not going to expand this point but I will, if a Texas CHL holder enters premises, hosptials or otherwise, where the Section 30.06 sign is properly posted, it is a Class A Misdemeanor. However, this is a trespass, not a gun crime per se, and the statute says this:

§ 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED
HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of
Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another
without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder
with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed
handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.

That's not the best worded law in the land. There is an implication that if you received proper notice, e.g., the sign is properly posted, you still need to be asked to leave and fail to depart before the crime is committed.

Also, once you depart, the crime, if it occurred, is terminated. I don't think you can actually be arrested for the trespass if police come and you're outside of the hospital, to wit, no longer trespassing. Well, anyone can be arrested, but making the crime stick is a whole other story.

Jus' sayin'.....it's a weird rule, passed to pacify the anti-gunners, probably rarely enforced.

***GRJ***

[RobertJ.]

Tell the wife no!

[Watchdog]

Originally Posted by scott1970

I carry anyway and ignore the signs.

Possibly a good way to get arrested or (worst case scenario) get shot.

Hopefully, you don't ignore those "One Way" street signs or those "Do Not Enter" signs on some interstate on-off ramps.

[suckersrus]

First, I would never ever advise anyone to break the law.

However, there are people like your neighbor, that say, "Concealed means concealed" and if you should ever have to use it, you will be glad you had it.
Otherwise, no one will know.

It is truly sad that our laws are so screwed up.

[LOBO]

Originally Posted by RobertJ.

Tell the wife no!

Yepper' this is the one.

[Bundesheer]

Tell the wife no is a good one.
Are you married? Do you know what that sweet question that start with "could you" causing trouble if you starting to question? Do you know what it means when SHE sweet adds even a please on the end of the sentence? No? Than you are not married.

Concealed Carry and the wife?
She don't care and goes in the hospital anyway, because she has only a Bersa .380 in the purse and means the big signs don't mean her little pistol and how dear you to question was a woman carries in her purse.

But this would be a topic for a different time.

[Bat99]

You're in Texas. If the hospital has a 30.06 notice on the door you are entering,
then you break the law by entering concealed or otherwise.
No 30.06? Then they have not notified you by Texas law and you're OK.

As has been said get a car safe for your trunk and leave it there.

[Ματθιας]

I apply the Sgt. Schultz theory wherever, whenever, I can:

"I know nothing."

I have one question, who is going to bust a CC carrier at places (hospitals, post offices. ect.) other than a .gov facility? Who is going to know?

Actually, that was two, but I'm curious.

[Watchdog]

Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda

That's not the best worded law in the land. There is an implication that if you received proper notice, e.g., the sign is properly posted, you still need to be asked to leave and fail to depart before the crime is committed.

It it's posted "No Firearms Allowed", you commit the crime once you ignore the sign and enter the premises. Just because no one notices the gun doesn't make you innocent. You may have gotten away with it, but you've still broken the law.

Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda

Also, once you depart, the crime, if it occurred, is terminated.

That doesn't make sense to me. If I go rob my corner convenience store and make it off their property, I've commited no crime? I'm innocent of wrongdoing and the cops can't touch me? C'mon.

Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda

Jus' sayin'.....it's a weird rule, passed to pacify the anti-gunners, probably rarely enforced.

I don't think you can place blanket blame for the laws or rules on anti-gun people. It's been illegal to carry weapons in certain types of buildings or on certain types of property for decades, even before the Gun Control Act of 1968. People have always disobeyed those rules, but the rules were still on the books.

This is like some of the towns in the old west if you remember your history...towns that prohibited the carrying of guns inside the town limits...probably like some towns in Texas. I doubt there were a whole lot of anti-gun folks around back in the mid- to late-1800s. The laws were considered to be for the public good, the public safety.

[rz625-8]

There are times where I am called by the local LEOs to do a prisioner watch on one of the floors. So I do ccw in there. The nurses on the floors and security know each of us security officers and we can at any time ccw if a problem comes up. They [hospital] have local pd working armed but,they don't mind either incase there is a problem.

[Watchdog]

Originally Posted by Ματθιας

I have one question, who is going to bust a CC carrier at places (hospitals, post offices. ect.) other than a .gov facility? Who is going to know?

Any person in a position of authority in the facility can bust you. That includes armed security guards or off-duty policemen who may be moonlighting as guards. Or simply an off-duty policeman. Even a private citizen who sees you carrying can make facility personnel aware of it...they call the cops...you're busted, period.

Face it. We live in a world of paranoia and distrust now, and that distrust isn't just on the part of anti-gun people. Like it or not (I don't), guns on public streets or in public buildings make a lot of people twitchy. It puts them on edge. They start looking for the exits and pulling out their cell phones to call the cops. You may have a concealed carry permit, but if someone in a place where weapons are prohibited sees you carrying, chances are really good you'll get stopped and questioned by someone.

Who's going to know? Sooner or later someone will see your concealed weapon in a place where you aren't supposed to have one. Like a post office or other postal facility? Take my word for it, you do not want to go up against the postal inspectors. They don't cut anyone any slack.

[RobertJ.]

Originally Posted by Bundesheer

Tell the wife no is a good one.
Are you married? Do you know what that sweet question that start with "could you" causing trouble if you starting to question? Do you know what it means when SHE sweet adds even a please on the end of the sentence? No? Than you are not married.

Concealed Carry and the wife?
She don't care and goes in the hospital anyway, because she has only a Bersa .380 in the purse and means the big signs don't mean her little pistol and how dear you to question was a woman carries in her purse.

But this would be a topic for a different time.

Actually, we've been married going on 20 years, and by now, she knows that no means no!

Don't get me wrong, I love my wife and do lots for her. But when I tell her that something isn't going to happen, she knows she can take that to the bank!

[Protected One]

Put the gun in your glove box, lock it, and go do what you have to do.

[redwood0_7]

I have a lockbox in my car trunk. Box is attached to car frame with a cable. I lock gun in box, lock car.

[Ματθιας]

Originally Posted by WATCHDOG

Any person in a position of authority in the facility can bust you. That includes armed security guards or off-duty policemen who may be moonlighting as guards. Or simply an off-duty policeman. Even a private citizen who sees you carrying can make facility personnel aware of it...they call the cops...you're busted, period.

Face it. We live in a world of paranoia and distrust now, and that distrust isn't just on the part of anti-gun people. Like it or not (I don't), guns on public streets or in public buildings make a lot of people twitchy. It puts them on edge. They start looking for the exits and pulling out their cell phones to call the cops. You may have a concealed carry permit, but if someone in a place where weapons are prohibited sees you carrying, chances are really good you'll get stopped and questioned by someone.

Who's going to know? Sooner or later someone will see your concealed weapon in a place where you aren't supposed to have one. Like a post office or other postal facility? Take my word for it, you do not want to go up against the postal inspectors. They don't cut anyone any slack.

One has a better chance of being busted digging out their concealed piece and hiding it in their car/truck in the middle of the video monitored parking lot. Try explaining that!

I'll take my chances going about my day like I've done for decades.

[Neumann]

Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda

My point, exactly, about what people ask me, because people do this routinely.

For the record, since I was not going to expand this point but I will, if a Texas CHL holder enters premises, hosptials or otherwise, where the Section 30.06 sign is properly posted, it is a Class A Misdemeanor. However, this is a trespass, not a gun crime per se, and the statute says this:


That's not the best worded law in the land. There is an implication that if you received proper notice, e.g., the sign is properly posted, you still need to be asked to leave and fail to depart before the crime is committed.

Also, once you depart, the crime, if it occurred, is terminated. I don't think you can actually be arrested for the trespass if police come and you're outside of the hospital, to wit, no longer trespassing. Well, anyone can be arrested, but making the crime stick is a whole other story.

Jus' sayin'.....it's a weird rule, passed to pacify the anti-gunners, probably rarely enforced.

***GRJ***

Posting in a compliant manner is all the notification required. You are subject to immediate arrest if discovered.

[Ματθιας]

Originally Posted by WATCHDOG

That doesn't make sense to me. If I go rob my corner convenience store and make it off their property, I've commited no crime? I'm innocent of wrongdoing and the cops can't touch me? C'mon.

It's not the same thing.

If I roll through a stop sign and no one sees me, what happens? If I jaywalk and no one sees me, what happens?

[Faulkner]

I don't give legal advise but you did ask what we would do in your example . . . they call it concealed carry for a reason and I don't leave mine in the car.

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by scott1970

I carry anyway and ignore the signs.

Well, we mere Plebeians don't have that option

[TexasArmed]

Originally Posted by Bat99

You're in Texas. If the hospital has a 30.06 notice on the door you are entering,
then you break the law by entering concealed or otherwise.
No 30.06? Then they have not notified you by Texas law and you're OK.

As has been said get a car safe for your trunk and leave it there.

I have also encountered a 30.06 sign at a Texas Hospital awhile back. I walked the extra distance to get back to my vehicle where I left my gun in the car console. By doing so I am not
breaking the law. As for worrying about what happens if the
car gets broken into, I do have insurance for that and besides,
there is a law against thieves breaking into my car. I will let
the folks who passed the law that requires me to disarm, worry
about the problems caused by someone breaking into my vehicle and getting the gun. Its not my problem, its theirs.
I have insurance to cover my car getting broken into by
thieves.

[Ransom]

What is the penalty for carrying in Texas in a 30.06 posted property? I understand it is trespass.

[Donn]

Here in Michigan it's a state law, and many hospitals have metal detectors at the entrances. I have a TSA approved lock box cabled to my truck's seat frame. If I need to go anywhere that's posted, I lock it up, (unloaded of course). Would anyone know? Probably not, but I'm not gonna roll those dice.

[TexasArmed]

Originally Posted by Ransom

What is the penalty for carrying in Texas in a 30.06 posted property? I understand it is trespass.

I believe the penalty is criminal trespass and that the State
would revoke the CHL. Since the 30.06 is in large letters,
posted on every entrance, in English & Spanish it would be
difficult for anyone to claim they did not have notice.

[Jessie]

Until you get a more permanent solution, why don't you lock the gun in the trunk or where ever, but before you do, disable it by removing the cylinder or slide and take only that part with you. If you're not carrying the part that is the reciever, you're not carrying a weapon.
If somebody steals what's left from your car, its inoperable and they may not even fool with it.
Just a thought...

[Bundesheer]

Like I said before, I don't roll the dice. 30.06 means leave the bum in the car. I'll take the magazine with me and place the gun in my lockable center console. That's it.
I was only curios if anyone else besides me handle it this way or if I am the only one, since I hear especially from young people on the range hot statements regarding "I don't care about signs".

I feel sometimes a little off, taking the Magazine with me because it's really no problem to get a Mag for a gun. But I personally feel better.

Att:
http://www.burger.com/gunfaq08.htm

[Rick_A]

If they have metal detectors and/or a wand at the entrance, obviously it's best to leave it in the car. If not, use your best judgement.

It's pretty stupid that concealed carry is prohibited at places I visit most every day, where there is no security or law enforcement presence.

The things we have compromised to have the illusion of rights...

[scott1970]

Originally Posted by WATCHDOG

Possibly a good way to get arrested or (worst case scenario) get shot.

Hopefully, you don't ignore those "One Way" street signs or those "Do Not Enter" signs on some interstate on-off ramps.

I believe my chances of being arrested for ignoring the no carry sign at P.F Chang's are so low they don't even count. And the worst case scenario of catching a bullet for doing so is less likely than getting arrested.


I initially was going to call your driving comparison ridiculous and/or absurd, and then I remembered I have done both out of necessity.


I guess I'm a driving and toting maverick living on the edge.

And for the record I do not have a carry permit. I've had good intentions of getting one for years, but I continue to forget to do it. If I had a carry permit my response would still be the same. That is where "concealed" makes all the difference.

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by Bundesheer

Leaving the weapon in the car makes me guilty to leave a weapon non controllable for me in case my car gets hit.

NO, if such signs have the force of law (or it's a statutory CPZ) in your state, it makes you "guilty" of obeying the law as written.

My current employer is posted, but the lot is not. When I carry, I leave the gun in the car (which I can see from my window).

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a jurisdiction where the penalty for having a secured (in a vehicle) firearm stolen is greater than violating a weapons law.

If you're worried about security, get a one gun security container and secure it to the interior of the vehicle by cable or bolts.

[Harkrader]

If it's a hospital rule, don't forget to send them a letter of complaint.

[Road Rat]

Originally Posted by WATCHDOG

It it's posted "No Firearms Allowed", you commit the crime once you ignore the sign and enter the premises.

I like this guy WATCHDOG!

He has NEVER driven faster than the posted speed limit.
He has ALWAYS come to a complete stop at every stop sign.

[NYresQ]

Many people have vastly different opinions of what "concealed" means. To me (as a LEO) concealed means if I walk all the way around you, I can see you have a pistol on your person.

Some others think a skin tight T-shirt pulled down over a full size 1911 in a belt holster is good enough. I have seen people that had closthing tight enough I could tell exactly what model pistol they had on their belt... Thats only a hair above OC, and many times is asking for trouble.

Concealed means just that, its hidden, no one can see it, no one knows you have a gun. With the way the world is today, I would rather have a gun than not. Just look at the doctor that violated hospital policy and CCW'ed despite their rules, and in doing so most likely prevented another mass shooting.

Its up to you, but if its concealed, and there are no metal detectors at the doors, who will know?

[cgt4570]

1st, I try to avoid giving my business to establishments that are anti-gun.
2nd, If I must enter such an establishment, and they don't have metal detectors or performing pat-downs at the door, then I don't worry about it. IF caught here carrying where posted, it's a misdemeanor. Besides, it's always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by Road Rat

I like this guy WATCHDOG!

He has NEVER driven faster than the posted speed limit.
He has ALWAYS come to a complete stop at every stop sign.

I like being able to carry where it's lawful to do so.

If I get caught doing otherwise, I can lose my Ohio CHL and my legal right to carry where it's permissable.

I'm not at all sure what I'd gain from losing the right to defend myself.

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by NYresQ

Its up to you, but if its concealed, and there are no metal detectors at the doors, who will know?

In Ohio, police stations are statutory CPZs.

Should I illegally carry into one as long as I conceal well?

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by Road Rat

I like this guy WATCHDOG!

He has NEVER driven faster than the posted speed limit.
He has ALWAYS come to a complete stop at every stop sign.

What he does or doesn't do has no bearing on whether or not you are breaking the law by ignoring a 30.06 sign