What to do

[Miles2014]

I work in a high rise office building, white collar (suit and tie) type job. I'm pretty sure that office and company guidelines prohibit firearms on the premise. I conceal carry during the weekends when out or out with the wife but due to not wanting to jeapordize my job, not at work. I want to be "prepared" 24/7 and was thinking of carrying a small piece and locking it up in my office drawer when I get there, but know this isn't the most prudent decision. Has anyone had to deal with this issue and are there any other options to consider?
Thanks!

[Simmer down]

Find out the details of the policy. It might detail the consequences and that might help you in deciding what will work for you.

Places like the court house have high consequences so I don't consider that a reasonable place to bend the law.

[snubbyfan]

Yeah, I've worked at places like that before, they even had a metal detector at the entrance. I'd leave my snubby in a lock box in my truck.

[Kanewpadle]

Being able to support your family should be your first consideration.

That being said, how secure is your building? Can anyone just walk right in? Are emergency exits close by? Can you lock your office door and is it strong enough to keep someone out?

I certainly would not leave a gun anywhere but on my person. Consider a smaller gun that you can pocket carry or appendix carry depending on how you dress.

What you describe is common with corporate America. In their effort to be politically correct, they deny our right to carry.

[Smoke]

A couple of people have already said but first you need to find out what your company’s policy is.

That said I strongly caution you against going and asking your HR department because all that will do is put you on their radar. Look up the information for yourself in the employee guidelines

Also I suggest that if you decide to carry at work even if the company is 100% behind it (which I doubt) you tell no one. If one person knows you’re carrying at work it’s only a matter of time before the entire company knows

[Watchdog]

Originally Posted by Miles2014

I work in a high rise office building, white collar (suit and tie) type job. I'm pretty sure that office and company guidelines prohibit firearms on the premise.

The company I used to work for had a bad habit of posting all sorts of spurious "rules" on the employee bulletin board and signing them "Management".

Find out what the official policies are. Don't go by what some egocentric office manager says. Get it in writing. Then decide what you want to do.

[Jaysq]

I have worked where concealed carry was not permitted, so I left it in the car. In my state, posted businesses have the law on their side. Even if it not posted, but against company policy, it was not worth it to risk loosing my job over. Leaving it in your desk seems like a bad idea.

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Originally Posted by Miles2014

I want to be "prepared" 24/7 and was thinking of carrying a small piece and locking it up in my office drawer when I get there, but know this isn't the most prudent decision. Has anyone had to deal with this issue and are there any other options to consider?

Yes. I dealt with approximately this issue for five years, but for the first few, the company did not have a written policy. Also, I was not really financially dependent on the job. However, as I did not wear a suit and tie (although I could have), on-body carry was not an option, except for a good ankle holster (Renegade). BTW, if your commute is by your own vehicle, and you park it in a safe area, that's a pretty workable option. That was my situation, but I seldom carried in an ankle holster. Instead, I always carried a 4" Model 10 in a soft "attache case" that had a hidden but not locked velcro-closed gun compartment. When I got to work, the case, which included my lunch and some papers, immediately went into my locked file cabinet. Thus the gun was reasonably available at work, very available outside work, and invisible at all times. The only time I carried a gun at my ankle (rare) was when I expected to be away from my desk or away from work without my attache case.

I'm not sure how you propose to carry a small piece and then deposit it when you get to work. Would you lock your office door while taking out the gun? Holster?

Hope this helps.

P.S. For the benefit of non-MA readers, in MA leaving the gun in the car is not practical. Loaded, it is illegal. Leaving the gun anyplace without locking it up is illegal, loaded or not. However, carrying against the employer's wishes is NOT illegal. Of course, it might get one fired and ordered off the employer's property.

[686-380]

Originally Posted by Miles2014

I work in a high rise office building, white collar (suit and tie) type job. I'm pretty sure that office and company guidelines prohibit firearms on the premise. I conceal carry during the weekends when out or out with the wife but due to not wanting to jeapordize my job, not at work. I want to be "prepared" 24/7 and was thinking of carrying a small piece and locking it up in my office drawer when I get there, but know this isn't the most prudent decision. Has anyone had to deal with this issue and are there any other options to consider?
Thanks!

It is essential that you find out what the policy is for your company.

I'm guessing you are employed in a situation with significant stress - pressure from management or disgruntled customers. If not, maybe it would be better to leave the weapon at home. You could/should always assess the environment for non-firearm weapons of convenience.

[chief38]

Well while I would not tell anyone to void Company policy for risk of repercussions, IF ONE WERE to carry anyway, the safest way (and least chance of forgetting something or being seen) would be to carry a nice small compact and viable piece well concealed on your person. That choice is yours and you need to way the risk vs benefits.

IMHO keeping a gun in a draw, car, trunk, pocketbook, briefcase, or anywhere off body is NOT a good idea in my personal book. Just an accident or mistake waiting to happen. If you carry .... then carry. If not..... then don't.

[Trons]

I agree with everybody about finding out the company policy. I disagree with not asking HR. My written company policy used some vague, general wording and I wanted clarification so I asked. I have yet to be frisked for asking. Having said that, my HR department actually has a help desk number and are in a different state, so that might be the reason.

I get to work, it goes in my glove compartment and I lock it. I leave work, I unlock the glove compartment and it goes back on my hip, <shrug>. We have a "security" guard at the entrance (unarmed) and every door to enter requires a security badge to open, so I'm not super worried about needing my gun while working.

To be honest, the main reason I wanted to, when I first got my CCDW is because I thought it would be a good place to get comfortable carrying because I'm up/down a bit.

I will say that occasionally I have been distracted and walked in with it on. No alarms went off and as soon as I realized it, I went back out to my Jeep to put it up. I've never made it all the way to my desk, usually just past the guard and the second, locked door and down the hallway.

[Old cop]

I worked for the federal government after retiring from LE, carrying a gun was a firing offense so I did not carry. It was a good job w/an excellent salary & benefit package and I did not want to risk losing it. I did carry on weekends or otherwise not working. Fortunately nothing ever happened but I was never comfortable w/o a gun.

[Arik]

In the end you have to know your laws. As Model520Fan said, it's basically illegal to keep it in the car unless you lock it in the glove box and take the ammo with you. So now it just comes down to your place of work. How well can you keep it hidden? Without actually being there and seeing it I would opt for something like a Kahr PM9 on a ankle holster with a spare mag or two on the other ankle. At this point your job, dress and social encounters would dictate the type of gun you carry. I'd want something in semi auto for its overall thinnes in both gun and reloads

[Trons]

I guess it depends on where you live. I can keep it in the glove compartment with the ammo in it, without a problem. As a matter of fact, KY law prevents an employer from stopping me from keeping it in my Jeep.

[Lobster Picnic]

NAA Pug A lot of firepower for the size:

[Donn]

When I was on the job, it was spelled out in the Code of Conduct. Firearms were prohibited on company premisis. Violation was grounds for immediate dismissal. There were no metal detectors or spot inspections. I knew people who were in violation. I chose not to roll those dice.

[Stevens]

Best to followthe company rules, don't and get maybe get canned. They may put a big black mark on your record when you go looking for a new job. Maybe something like
"reckless disregard for company policy and endangered lives of company personell" no matter how twisted that may seem.
Fate will see to it that if you get canned it will be at a time when it is hard to find a new job.
Steve W

[Harkrader]

I echo everything "smoke" says:
"find out what your company’s policy is.
That said I strongly caution you against going and asking your HR department because all that will do is put you on their radar. Look up the information for yourself in the employee guidelines
Also I suggest that if you decide to carry at work even if the company is 100% behind it (which I doubt) you tell no one. If one person knows you’re carrying at work it’s only a matter of time before the entire company knows"

12 years ago I was approached by a family friend who was divorcing her husband after finding out he was cheating on her - a lot. He then tried to murder her and even though she got a restraining order (and then a second one) he found ways to harass her, including involving his friends in it.
She was an executive in a high-profile business. Her office was in a high-rise office building that also had a federal agency as a tenant. The entire building, except for the parking garage, was posted with anti-self-defense signs, which, under Wisconsin law prohibit honest people from carrying firearms.

Her employer had an explicit policy against employees carrying firearms. She wore a women's business suit and met with clients in the office, often removing her jacket. On-body carry would have been nearly impossible, though I had seen her conceal a Colt Detective Special under very light cover.

Per my instructions she advised her employer of the danger to her and asked them to provide an escort to and from her car. She was in and out several times a day. The employer agreed, using building security. Trouble was, the wait for them was unacceptably long. It was useless.

Her employer agreed to let all other employees in the office know of the danger so that if the murderous ex showed up they would recognize him and call 9-1-1. As you might understand, by the time he would have been in the office, law enforcement could never have arrived in time to save her. The man had threatened murder/suicide. The employer actually viewed this as a "domestic squabble" and their greatest fear was what knowledge of her "problem" might do to clients' faith in the firm. That's sick, but there you have it.

An unfortunate side effect of advising management of the problem was, as "smoke" indicated, that all the employees now suspected she might be carrying, so that if she had, her employment would have been at risk. The company policy was to fire an employee who brought a gun, period.

She did carry one in her car, to and from work and all other places that allowed it. All of her clients who knew of the danger explicitly told her she could carry on their premises, but her company's policy would still have resulted in her being fired. Further, she was still in grave danger getting to and from her car at work. The ex had followed her a number of times, even being brazen enough to follow her into a police department parking lot. He had not, so far as she knew, entered the parking garage.

Funny thing, one of the agents in the federal office in the building learned of her dilemma and advised her to carry there anyway, saying they would never report her. Nice, but that still did not help her with her employer.

Even if you are at risk from a known threat, you will likely have a tough sell with your employer. My experience has been that they are uninterested in facts. They just want the appearance of refusing to allow violence in the workplace, even in self-defense. One I personally spoke with, a bank CEO, acknowledged the contradiction but said he would not change the policy for his employee or customers. Two of their branches have since been robbed. I would like to have called him up and laughed in his face, but anyone can see the difference between an armed robbery and a planned murder. The bank also has the usual policies and procedures in place to deal with armed robbery, and there hasn't been a bank employee killed during a robbery in Wisconsin in a long time. I would be out of line to criticize them.

One thing I saw work was making a credible threat to the employer of a lawsuit. The business was a legal firm in ultra-left-wing Madison WI, and one of their lawyers was at real risk of being murdered by someone they had successfully defeated in court. The lawyer at risk demanded, but did not receive, an order in writing to leave his gun at home. The employer did not want one even in the trunk of the employee's car in the basement parking garage. The garage was not posted with anti-self-defense signs, but the rest of the building was. The lawyer wrote a summary of his discussions with his employer, one of the full partners in the firm, cited Wisconsin CCW law and detailed what would happen to the firm if he was killed due to their policy, and not providing him a full-time armed guard. Yes, the threat was that serious. The company relented, allowing him to carry to and from his car in the building. While in the office they required him to lock it in a desk drawer. The office was on an upper floor of restricted-entry office building, so the employee felt that was acceptable.

It is a very tough sell and the mentally unbalanced anti-self-defense crowd sees self-defense as just another form of unacceptable violence. They cannot be educated or convinced, only defeated. Even reminding them that if they find themselves in trouble the first thing they will do is call for someone with a gun to save them doesn't work. So-called "rallies" in Madison sparked by the Ferguson MO events were all in support of the teen-age thug. There was not one that supported law enforcement.

Good luck.

[Grayfox]

The first question to ask yourself is "How much do I like this job?"

[Protected One]

"Smoke" hit the nail on the head.

[Doug M.]

1) Don't raise questions like this in an open forum that any idiot can search. If ANYONE at work knows you come to this forum, your security with regard to this issue could already be at risk.

2) If for some reason you have a presence on Facebook, twitter, etc (and why on earth would you think that is a good idea?) same thing, and dump that presence with vigor. About the only reason I can think to have one is monitor your kids and keep them off those.

3) While there MAY be circumstances in which asking HR a question like this is not completely football bat, I think Trons' experience is the distinct minority and without a really unusual situation, I would not ask. Not only is this skylining yourself to no positive outcome, the odds of an accurate and binding answer are so small that I can't measure them. I have dealt with legal issues pertaining to HR folks and their errors, and have seen too many who are really dumb at best. There are a few who have IQs above room temperature, but most of them have an agenda.

4) Shut up. Under no condition should anyone at work, or anyone in your social circle including family (and yes, spouse included) know you are carrying. Darned few of them (probably none other than your spouse) should even know you own a firearm. Your wife has to know and live by the same rules. Always. No exceptions. If you piss someone off by your position, they present no benefit to your life and are expendable.

5) Big boy rules. Only you can make the cost/benefit risk analysis.

6) Off body storage is likely to be flawed. As a matter of law, your employer can search your workplace and any of their storage capacity, so desk drawers, locked or not, are no help. Your own briefcase should be ok, but if you work in a place with sensitive property, might not be better. Ankle holsters can be exposed by normal movement, and can mess up your stance and gait.

7) A decent small firearm in a pocket holster is likely to be a winner. The number of people who have become aware of my pocket carried Glock as a result of observational skills in the 13 or so years I have carried that way for most EDC needs is less than one hand's worth of fingers. You never have to mess with it, you don't have to worry about hiding it or taking off your coat, etc. This sort of limited circumstance is just about the only reason I would ever consider a J frame as a sole/primary weapon.

[Squarebutt]

As fellow inmate of the Commiewealth, I feel your pain. This subject has been debated extensively in local forums. Leaving a loaded gun in your desk may be viewed as a violation of MA law as well as company policy. If you're concerned about your personal safety there, maybe asking more general questions like "What are we supposed to do if XYZ happens? Is there an armed guard anywhere in this building? Does anyone here carry a gun?"
Improvised weapons like hornet spray and 3-cell Maglights in your desk probably won't get you fired, but a gun will. If you really think your life could be threatened there and there's no way to protect yourself, maybe it's time to shine up your resume and find another job.

[XD40inTX]

I worked in the oil & gas industry for 50 years and every employer I had, without exception, prohibited carrying a gun in the office. I reluctantly followed that rule until about 15 years before I retired. Then one Saturday one of the other engineers came in to do some work and left the door to our office suite unlocked. A homeless man walked in, found the engineer, beat him severely enough to put him in the hospital, and stole his watch, his money, and his laptop computer.

The following week I brought in a holster for the gun I carried then, a Springfield XD40. I contact-cemented the holster to the bottom of the center drawer in my desk. From them on, I brought the gun in my attache case when I came in on Saturday (which was frequent). As soon as I got into my office I transferred the gun from the attache case to the holster under the desk.

We never had any more problems after that one incident, but I was comfortable with working on Saturday.