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03-22-2015, 12:56 AM
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OK, I ran snowman's target through the software and here is the result:
There it is, the first target to beat mine. I knew that someone would do it. This is not just a good group, but very accurate as well. That one shot on the right is just barely touching the line.
Alas, the shirt has already been promised. I will think of something else to commemorate this accomplishment.
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03-22-2015, 01:01 AM
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Larry,
I have been polite to you, but have not received the same in return. No, I don't personally know Mr. Miculek, but obviously you do. Calling me a troll shows just how disrespectful you are.
Yes, I have a hard time believing what you say. The target you posted that supposedly has 8 rounds through 4 holes, shot at 100 yards, with a snub nosed revolver, is indeed hard to believe. However, I'll take you at your word; if you say you did it, you did it.
Now, what is the point of all this if you're not going to actually participate?
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03-22-2015, 10:02 PM
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Next time out I'm going to try revolvers.
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03-24-2015, 02:04 AM
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I shot the "challenge" with the first 20 rounds through a new, cleaned but never fired H&K VP9. I beat the snot out of my earlier Shield & C3 targets (posted), but nothing to compete with the leaders so far. First 4 rounds were a cloverleaf. But then ...
OK, let it be said that having an objective makes the average "let's burn ammo" days more interesting. Guys at the range asked about my sudden interest in distance. Just told them it was 'Rastoff's Challenge". Some tried, none did better than me. I may be old, but I got to be old!
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03-24-2015, 02:10 AM
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And yes, I'll go with the Ruger Security Six target version Thursday, and will do much better.
It ain't S&W, but ...
Speaking of, I have A Ruger Single Six, but it is becoming too much to clear the casings one at a time. I've seen mention of past S&W .22 revolvers (all out of production). What is out there (current production) that is worth chasing?
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03-24-2015, 10:55 AM
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Absent Comrade
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Just got back into shooting, and about to revive my reloading bench. I will accept the challenge. Might use my SW40, then again I need to use up some 25 yr old reloads in my SW 686 that has a better trigger. Will post photos at that time. Have tri-focal glasses, hearing aids and shaky hands, but who cares.
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03-24-2015, 07:17 PM
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Thank you for keeping it open
I lost my shirt to snowman. The laser I used in post # 60 will be back any day and I will take the challenge again.
David
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03-24-2015, 08:10 PM
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I'm glad y'all are having fun.
I just want to reiterate, if you're using a double action revolver, it must be shot double action for each shot. If you're using a DA/SA pistol, the first shot of each string must be DA and the subsequent shots must be SA. This is how these guns will be used in a self-defense shooting so, it only makes sense to practice with them that way. Even if this isn't the greatest representation of a self-defense scenario, it helps improve trigger control. So, use the gun the way you would in self-defense.
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03-24-2015, 09:02 PM
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Well, that rules out the Security Six. I can't pull the trigger in DA. Too stiff. It wasn't 30 years ago when I bought it, but things change. I'll have another go with the VP9.
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03-24-2015, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David R
I lost my shirt to snowman. The laser I used in post # 60 will be back any day and I will take the challenge again.
David
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I have plenty of shirts already, David. If you have a laser, I doubt if you can be outdone anyway.
Regards,
Andy
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03-25-2015, 09:32 AM
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Ok, my 686 has a very smooth double action, lots better than the 40 cal.
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03-28-2015, 08:44 PM
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I finally got out to do this, used my Bulgy Makarov and 95gr ball ammo from American Eagle, it avg'd 1019fps 5 shot avg over the chrono today.
3yrds
5yrds
7yrds
10yrds
Yes, the outlier was the last shot, and yes I DA'ed first shot at each distance.
Last edited by Otreb; 03-28-2015 at 08:48 PM.
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03-28-2015, 10:05 PM
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Been under the weather, no chance to pick up the gauntlet. Hopefully soon.
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03-31-2015, 06:03 PM
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All shots were from 7 yards the minimum. About shot 14 the dot would not stop dancing even in the 10 ring. Once I threw one out, I stopped and tried 2 more targets.
I fired the last 20 of the box at a bullseye 7,7,7 and 10 yards for about 4".
Once I got to 10 yards I would have been better off using the sights instead of trying to make the laser hold still.
I now feel much closer to my LW officers ACP.
Thanks for the challenge
David
Last edited by David R; 03-31-2015 at 06:13 PM.
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04-01-2015, 01:29 AM
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This has been fun, but I think it's run its course. With the exception of one little bump, the entire thread has been fun.
I will put up more in the future. I intend to develop more shooting scenarios for my class. I will vet them through you guys.
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04-01-2015, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff
This has been fun, but I think it's run its course. With the exception of one little bump, the entire thread has been fun.
I will put up more in the future. I intend to develop more shooting scenarios for my class. I will vet them through you guys.
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You did great, I enjoyed following it... like you said.. one bump in the road and you ran over it.. I'm with you.
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04-02-2015, 07:51 AM
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I have not been to the range yet, when I do, I'll post pictures or forget to post. One or the other.
Kevin
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04-03-2015, 11:58 AM
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Since my last tries were such a mess, and I was in a sort of mood that if said would get me a ding, I went to the range yesterday.
Took out the Sig C3 and ran the routine again. I've swapped out the 9mm for a new one, so no comparison there. But here is my "by the rules" result with 230g FMJ.
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04-03-2015, 01:41 PM
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I measured your group hoc9sw, but I'm not sure it's exactly correct. Here's what I got:
The way the software works is through using actual bullet diameter. This way it can calculate the center-to-center distance between the two furthest holes (represented by the black straight line between two of the drawn holes). The .45ACP is actually .451" or .452" in diameter. The actual measurement of bullet diameter isn't critical as long as you're able to put the virtual hole centered around the actual hole.
In order for the software to do this, it must be calibrated for each picture. This is done using a known reference in the picture itself. hoc9sw has given us the relevant reference.
As you can see, the largest distance is not always obvious. I would have thought the top most hole and the bottom most hole would have made the group. In this group though, those aren't the largest distance.
The challenge in this particular target is how the holes were made. I'll bet he used hardball ammo and didn't have a backer behind the target. This makes for lots of tearing. It's difficult to place the holes correctly on such a target. I did my best to get them centered over the holes, but may not have got it right.
Also, the type of paper makes a big difference. Notice the clean holes in DavidR's target just a couple posts above. He's using a different type of paper and what looks like wad cutter bullets. Those rounds are great for both target competition and self-defense. Very accurate and transfer energy almost as well as hollow points.
Anyone that wants to try this software for themselves can get it here: On Target Precision Calculator There is a free version, which is what I've been using, and a much better one for about $12 (I'm just really cheap). It really is good software and will give you the actual results rather than guessing. It's also very easy to use. If I can do it, you can do it.
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04-03-2015, 02:13 PM
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You are correct. Cheap paper, top pin only, no backing, 230gr FMJ (Herters from Cabela's). The range has a bit of draft, as needed to clear smoke, so the target will tend to float away from the shooter, leaving a slight angle.
But the big factor for the day was that I was so wound up that I didn't notice the arthritis pain as much as usual.
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04-03-2015, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoc9sw
...I was so wound up that I didn't notice the arthritis pain as much as usual.
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Was this a good thing? Pain is a terrible thing. I don't know what it's like to have arthritis, but I can imagine it's terrible.
The group is good.
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04-03-2015, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff
Was this a good thing? Pain is a terrible thing. I don't know what it's like to have arthritis, but I can imagine it's terrible.
The group is good.
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There are days that I have trouble holding a coffee cup. And days I go to the range with several calibers, but wind up shooting only the .22.
I start with a mag or two through the .22 compact. If it really bothers me, I stay with that. If it is just annoyance, I'll go to a .45. When I get to the point I can't rack it without issue, I pack up and go home.
There have been days I considered not shooting at all, but then there would be the wasted gas ...
The earlier I go, the better chance I'll enjoy it, but work gets in the way.
Not sure how I managed that group. Haven't done that well in months. But then for years that would have been unthinkably bad.
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04-03-2015, 09:06 PM
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Don't sell yourself short. Those are never "unthinkably" bad. You put 20 rounds not just close to each other, but very close to the center of the target. In defensive shooting, that's a saved love one or another day above ground for yourself. Well done!
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04-03-2015, 09:51 PM
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If it's not flooding in Georgia tomorrow I'll give this a try. This will give me an excuse to get some .41 Magnums to the range.
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04-03-2015, 10:12 PM
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I'm looking forward to the pic Scott.
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04-04-2015, 11:58 AM
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Here ya go......
OK, OK that's what I wish it looked like.
I shot 4 at 3yds, 6 at 5 yds, 6 at 7 yds and the remainder of the 2 magazine(14 rnds) at 10.
All the flyers on the right were at 5 and 7 yds
This is the real thing:
Last edited by Just another 22 shooter; 04-04-2015 at 12:02 PM.
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04-09-2015, 10:01 AM
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Looks like I have to withdraw my statement to "pick up the gauntlet". Health issues became front and center shortly there after I accepted the challenge. Maybe after this issue is resolved, with the Lord's help, I'll pickup where I left off.
Joe
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04-10-2015, 12:21 AM
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Joe,
You have your head screwed on straight. Take care of yourself first. We'll be here when you are able.
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04-13-2015, 07:22 PM
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I shot the challenge today with an M&P Shield 40cal. This is only the third time I have shot this gun and really haven't spent much time at the range for the last year or so, so I am fairly pleased with the results. Each square is 1"X1"
Then I shot it with my son's Sig sp2022, this was the first time I ever shot this gun and I didn't do too terribly, but at least I beat him...
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04-13-2015, 07:53 PM
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Not bad shutter13. Hey, at least you beat the kid. One day we won't be able to.
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04-19-2015, 06:37 PM
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Went out yesterday finally, for the first time this month.
Only shot the challenge one time with each pistol, since I'm a little bit too accustomed to shoots where you don't do re-shoots, even with Internet matches.
The CZ75B SA, 9mm. Best of the three I tried with.
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04-29-2015, 07:40 PM
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I picked up a M&P9 last Sunday. Was only able to run one mag through it (17rnds)...,Will hopefully try this challenge this next Sunday
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04-29-2015, 08:26 PM
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Looking forward to your target SixShooter14.
Do a bunch of dry presses before you go to the range. Then run a few magazines through the gun before trying the challenge. Work on learning that trigger first.
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04-29-2015, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff
Looking forward to your target SixShooter14.
Do a bunch of dry presses before you go to the range. Then run a few magazines through the gun before trying the challenge. Work on learning that trigger first.
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10-4 will do
I won't have an "official" target, but I'll make an oval and show it's size
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04-30-2015, 11:45 AM
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Well, feeling much better since prostate surgery on Apr 23, 2015, no cancer, thank the Lord. No shooting allowed yet but have really enjoyed this thread. I'm in the process (slow process) of getting a reloading table set up, then I want to revive a long abandoned hobby. Still have all my tools.
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04-30-2015, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole Joe Clark
Well, feeling much better since prostate surgery on Apr 23, 2015, no cancer, thank the Lord. No shooting allowed yet but have really enjoyed this thread. I'm in the process (slow process) of getting a reloading table set up, then I want to revive a long abandoned hobby. Still have all my tools.
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That's great 👍
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05-01-2015, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SixShooter14
I won't have an "official" target, but I'll make an oval and show it's size
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You can just print the attached target. It's a reasonable approximation of the center of a B27E.
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05-02-2015, 02:01 PM
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Alright, it's not great...but, but it's windy, hot, sunny, cold, raining, snowing, chance of tornado, I had a headache, uhh, uhhh....uh uh.....any more excuses?
Ok...here it is
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05-02-2015, 03:30 PM
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Not bad SixShooter14. It's better than what I commonly see in my class.
Slow down. Hard focus on the front sight and prreeessss the trigger straight back. Concentrate on keeping the front sight in focus and on target. The shot should be a surprise.
The new gun will take some time to get used to. Dry practice is the key. Do lots of dry practice and focus on that trigger control. You cannot hurt your gun during dry practice and you don't need snap caps.
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05-02-2015, 03:37 PM
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Appreciate it....I will try to do it again some time....
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06-21-2015, 09:01 AM
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Well, I've been to the range 2 times, but can't bring myself to take this challenge yet. There is not much room to get worse, but MUCH room for improvement. :-) I blame it on birthdays, shaky hands, and the worlds worst trigger pull on the 40 cal. At least that is my excuse and I am sticking to it.
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06-21-2015, 06:44 PM
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Hey, just getting to the range is better than most of us do. Trigger pull is definitely a factor and one of the reasons for the requirement to use a self-defense pistol. Often we get to the range and have lots of fun with our "range" guns, but forget to work with the carry guns. So, we're not used to the trigger and sometimes the trigger on the carry gun is not great. This challenge forces us to think about what we're carrying.
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06-21-2015, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff
Often we get to the range and have lots of fun with our "range" guns, but forget to work with the carry guns.
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My monthly range trips and training are almost always exclusively with my carry and back-up guns.
The fun guns only come out every 4-5 months, and those are ADDITIONAL sessions...not in place of.
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07-04-2015, 10:42 AM
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Took the challenge today, not easy to keep a tight group at 10 yds. The 4 you see out of the 2" orange circle were the ones from 10 yds. My nerves got the best of me at 10 yds.....the front sight seemed to be bouncing all over the place....LOL!
Fun though as all shooting is. . This was with my Shield 40. Next time I'll try the FS 40, though I don't carry it for self defense.
Here are pics from 3, 5 and 7 yds.
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07-04-2015, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snubbyfan
It's too cold to go to the range right now but I've done this;
With this;
From about this far away;
The head shots were done from the low ready position, bringing the gun up and shooting quickly. I also dumped one cylinder quickly in the red.
I can't help but wonder how I'd do if my hands worked right.
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You get extra points for using a snub.
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07-04-2015, 11:54 AM
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I understand why instructors in CPL classes either choose not to, or aren't allowed to have clients draw from a concealed holster during cpl classes....But in my opinion not doing so practically excludes any "training" element from this "qualification" class.
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07-04-2015, 02:08 PM
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I think "awareness" of drawing from concealment is more important than actually practicing it.....unless you're concealing in the same manner and with he same attire all the time.
There are just so many variables to drawing from concealment; OWB, IWB, ankle, T-shirt, sweatshirt, button-up shirt, jacket, vest, zipped up or unzipped, pocket carry, etc. Unless you practice with each, it doesn't make much sense to practice only with what you happen to be wearing to the range that particular day.
Personally and IMO, low ready is a good practice. Unless I'm ambushed, I will have my hand on my holstered pistol or even have it drawn if I feel threatened. As far as home defense, you should be at the low ready at the first sign of a threat, not holstered.
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Last edited by Bob O; 07-04-2015 at 02:10 PM.
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07-04-2015, 02:34 PM
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I'm heading out to the range today , I'll give this a try it won't be my usual go- to gun , because I'm nearly out of 44 mag and my reloading stuff is still packed
I'll use my ol Brazilian 45 and an old m&p 38 this should be interesting
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07-04-2015, 05:13 PM
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Last edited by kamloops67; 07-04-2015 at 05:15 PM.
Reason: Can't load pics - I give up
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07-04-2015, 05:19 PM
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Bummer the pic won't upload for you. Can you host it somewhere? Or feel free to email it to me and I can post it for you.
[email protected]
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