I found a printable B-27 online. It's just most of the 9 ring, all of 10 ring, and all the X ring. File is attached. If it ain't raining tomorrow, I'll try it out.
Charter Arms Bulldog 44 special. 2.5" barrel, 240 grain 820 fps.
Standard course of fire. Outside in the snow. I get a 2" group, you can measure. Not all IN the x.
I found 3 targets for $2.49. One more try, this match should be won with a Smith.
Here's my attempt from earlier today! Definitely not as good as most of you, but given that I've been shooting for under a year, I'm pleased with it overall.
First it was keep it in the X. Then we are competing for group size to the .001"
Why all the extra paper?
It's still keep it in the X David. I was gonna head down the path of accuracy vs precision, but decided not to go there. Here I was trying to show everyone what a good shot you are and you respond with this. (Just messin with ya).
Again, I'd like to thank everyone for participating. I've posted this on a few gun forums. So far, this is the only forum where anyone has even tried it.
Pierre330,
For having been at this only a short time, that's a nice group. Heck, it's even a nice group for those of us that have been at it a while.
Doug (Rastoff) should be awarded some forum "Legion Of Merit" for encourging this. What a service to us all. I just realized that I can't recall a day of shooting I have enjoyed more, other than years ago with my beloved, but long dead father. Funny that an old man, still tears up realizing he is missing his own dad.
My 10 year old (I am a very late in life, first-time father/single parent with a 10 year old at 53) and I got up to our ranch and shot all afternoon. Here he is with our beloved Model 28, Highway Patrolman, SN # S1139xx, which I understand to be first year of production, 1954-55. He did take the challenge shooting .38 Special.
Isn't it amazing that a revolver manufactured 50 years before he was born still shoots like new and can bring him such joy? I think this is a true testament to the Smith & Wesson company, and these guns we love so much. How many companies are still having their products loved, cherished and used in the field decades later? Not many. I wish I could shake Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson's hands and thank them in person. I hope they are smiling down from heaven.
My son looked at me coming home--we had the roof down on our Jeep and it was about 65 degrees with a beautiful sunset--and he said "dad, this has been one of the funnest days we have ever spent together. And that Highway Patrolman is my new favorite gun." I am going to order some ivory stocks for the Model 28 and give it to my son.
First Time Revolver Shooter takes the challenge too!
We were also blessed to have one of the young attorneys that works for me come and join us as well. Like so many young folks, he loves the black rifles and black plastic pistols. He had never shot a revolver before today. He is an experienced pistol shooter and his father was highly respected Detective. He lost his dad last year to cancer but has his service Glock mounted in a case.
I was proud to have him shoot the Highway Patrolman as his first revolver experience and he did pretty well too! He commented "I have been missing out, I have to get me one of these! I LOVE this trigger and the action is like butter." I told him, there is no school like the old school!"
I am going to have find him a nice Model 28 too, to give to him to commerate this day and shooting his first revolver.
[I was proud to have him shoot the Highway Patrolman as his first revolver experience and he did pretty well too! He commented "I have been missing out, I have to get me one of these! I LOVE this trigger and the action is like butter." I told him, there is no school like the old school!"
I am going to have find him a nice Model 28 too, to give to him to commerate this day and shooting his first revolver.
I like your style!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6518John
My son looked at me coming home--we had the roof down on our Jeep and it was about 65 degrees with a beautiful sunset--and he said "dad, this has been one of the funnest days we have ever spent together. And that Highway Patrolman is my new favorite gun." I am going to order some ivory stocks for the Model 28 and give it to my son
Nothing like good father & son time!
__________________
Stay protected my friends.
Last edited by Protected One; 03-16-2015 at 07:56 AM.
I did this with my no dash 686. My range won't allow anything closer than 7 yard shots, so I did the chest shots in double action from 7 yards and the shots in the upper chest area were done in single action from roughly 9-10 yards away using cheap .38 special LAX reloads.
Doug (Rastoff) should be awarded some forum "Legion Of Merit" for encourging this. What a service to us all. I just realized that I can't recall a day of shooting I have enjoyed more, other than years ago with my beloved, but long dead father. Funny that an old man, still tears up realizing he is missing his own dad.
My 10 year old (I am a very late in life, first-time father/single parent with a 10 year old at 53) and I got up to our ranch and shot all afternoon. Here he is with our beloved Model 28, Highway Patrolman, SN # S1139xx, which I understand to be first year of production, 1954-55. He did take the challenge shooting .38 Special.
Isn't it amazing that a revolver manufactured 50 years before he was born still shoots like new and can bring him such joy? I think this is a true testament to the Smith & Wesson company, and these guns we love so much. How many companies are still having their products loved, cherished and used in the field decades later? Not many. I wish I could shake Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson's hands and thank them in person. I hope they are smiling down from heaven.
My son looked at me coming home--we had the roof down on our Jeep and it was about 65 degrees with a beautiful sunset--and he said "dad, this has been one of the funnest days we have ever spent together. And that Highway Patrolman is my new favorite gun." I am going to order some ivory stocks for the Model 28 and give it to my son.
Nice shooting, and very nice that you shared a day at the range with your son. Don't worry about being an older parent. I'm 43 and have twin 20 month old girls.
Double action slow fire. Not my best work, but pretty typical.
While also not my best work, it's not bad for rapid fire (a few shots a second). 20140815_134250_LLS by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr
Some folks scoff at a guy hammering rounds down range but if I'm going to practice for defensive shooting, I'm shooting at the ragged edge of my ability.
Those two low shots with the revolver were due to a couple of fizzlers with loose crimps.
This is the rest of the wheelguns doing the same:
Shots were fired as fast as I can physically pull the trigger. While it doesn't look as good on paper it is better for you as practice. The more defined hits are 357 and the soft edged holes are 38spl.
At first I feared this gun had a sticky chamber issue. When ran that hot I found they'll all do that.
If you're going to have a defensive shooting challenge, perhaps add the rate of fire to the equation.
Yep, lots of guys say that. The response will always be the same from me. Rapid fire (an ambiguous term at best) will hide a lot of sloppy trigger work and flinching. The "challenge" as presented, will accentuate any trigger control anomalies.
You're a good shot Rick. This is about solidifying those fundamentals. Doing this type of shooting every now and then will make for a better shooter all around.
As I stated in the OP, I had never actually done this until I shot the target in the OP. In fact, my own practice generally consists of controlled pairs and failures-to-stop drills. I'm adding this basic shooting back into my routine.
You're never too advanced to work on fundamentals.
Yep, lots of guys say that. The response will always be the same from me. Rapid fire (an ambiguous term at best) will hide a lot of sloppy trigger work and flinching. The "challenge" as presented, will accentuate any trigger control anomalies.
You're a good shot Rick. This is about solidifying those fundamentals. Doing this type of shooting every now and then will make for a better shooter all around.
As I stated in the OP, I had never actually done this until I shot the target in the OP. In fact, my own practice generally consists of controlled pairs and failures-to-stop drills. I'm adding this basic shooting back into my routine.
You're never too advanced to work on fundamentals.
I can't afford to spend much time at the range so most of it is spent on more defensive-oriented shooting skills. However, I always try to spend at least a cylinder-full or two of ammo focusing on fundamentals.
Yep, lots of guys say that. The response will always be the same from me. Rapid fire (an ambiguous term at best) will hide a lot of sloppy trigger work and flinching. The "challenge" as presented, will accentuate any trigger control anomalies.
You're a good shot Rick. This is about solidifying those fundamentals. Doing this type of shooting every now and then will make for a better shooter all around.
As I stated in the OP, I had never actually done this until I shot the target in the OP. In fact, my own practice generally consists of controlled pairs and failures-to-stop drills. I'm adding this basic shooting back into my routine.
You're never too advanced to work on fundamentals.
Those are some interesting guns. I don't consider it a waste. Any trigger time is valuable if used properly.
While working with different guns is fine, it's also valuable to work with your self-defense gun. Learning every aspect of your gun is always a good use. You never know when you'll have to take a well placed shot. This is one way to practice that.
Nice shooting Shorty 45 MK2. Same to you ContinentalOp. Those hits will definitely stop the bad guy, but more importantly, they show that you have decent trigger control.
Thanks to all who have stepped up and tried this. There is another challenge out there now and more in the future. Shooting is fun, but quality practice that has a specific purpose is what makes us effective with our firearms.
No fancy targets for me; I aim at a square of duct tape (the square got shredded but there are remnants if you look close.) Here's my submission:
Here it is in another view with the Colt CCG used:
Now, in the interest of full disclosure, I didn't follow the course exactly. Due to range congestion, I was unable to shoot at 3 yards--so I fired those four shots at 5 yards. Also, it was a mixed bag at the range--this gun is new and it stove piped and threw some brass in my face. Called Colt and it's going back to the factory for rework.
The penny is for scale; it is exactly 0.750" and according to my measurements I get 1.8" for my group but I will defer to Rastoff's computer for the final tally!
Last edited by Waywatcher; 03-16-2015 at 09:51 PM.
Well Waywatcher, not only can you shoot, but you know how to measure a group. Assuming you were using a .45ACP (.451" bullet diameter) and using the penny as a reference (.75" diameter), it measures like this:
I had to guess at the aim point because...well...it's missing. I also had to take a "best guess" at the upper left two rounds. The tearing really makes it hard to determine bullet hole location. Anyway, this is what the computer shows. Doesn't matter, a very nice group. So far, only David R and my groups are better.
Those are some interesting guns. I don't consider it a waste. Any trigger time is valuable if used properly.
While working with different guns is fine, it's also valuable to work with your self-defense gun. Learning every aspect of your gun is always a good use. You never know when you'll have to take a well placed shot. This is one way to practice that.
Of course. All my centerfire guns are self defense guns. I don't believe in range guns.
I can shoot ragged holes at 10-15 yards quite easily with most, while I can't at speed. My goal is to eventually match my slow fire group sizes while shooting as fast as I can.
For 20-25 yards out the little guns are a fun challenge.
I can shoot ragged holes at 10-15 yards quite easily with most,...
OK, show us.
Seriously, this is exactly what got me thinking about this challenge. I hear this all the time. Guys on the internet say, "I normally shoot 2" groups at 25 yards" or "I can shoot 3" groups at 50 yards with my super special wonder gun" yet I never see it.
I spend a lot of time at the range. I see a lot of targets. It's a rare day that I see a group smaller than 10" at 7 yards, let alone 50.
So, since I tell my students that the qualification test is easy, I decided to test myself and see just how easy. It wasn't easy for me to shoot the group I did in the OP. It took a lot of concentration on my fundamentals to get that group. And, I don't think my group is all that fantastic. I do think that is about as good as I can do right now.
I laughed at how easy this would be to show up a big-talking Californian and a bunch of yankees! We shoot at 25 yards minimun, 50 yards to make it interesting. Amazing how far that 10 yard line is when you actually measure it with a tape measure. Maybe we are NOT shooting at 25 and 50 yards after all. Heck, I would have guessed the 10 yard line to be 15 to 20 yards minimun, but it was only 10 yards or 30 feet.
And I thought I could shoot a gnats eye out at a 100 yards with any of my revolvers or pistols! Yea right! I see Hickok45 ring the gong with .22 short derringers! And he makes it looks easy. I know I can do as well or better with my big guns.
Amazing how hard this was, especially cutting out the bull.
I haven't really shot my handguns for any kind of accuracy since The Shooting Center at S&W closed... he, that was an eye opener yesterday at my local outdoor range... I threw the targets away...
Been carrying my M&P40fs, instead of my Shield 40 lately. First shot from about 15 yds was an absolute almost dead center bullseye.. I turned around to my wife and said.. sheeeeeeit... it was all downhill from there. I did ok, good enough for what I call.... DEAD... but nowhere near Rassy's targets.. I need some patience and practice.. thanks for the kick in the butt!!! I need to get at it more..
Rastoff thank you for the challenge The wife and I both shoot probably more than the average person, so we needed something to change up the competition a little bit. I know it's sacrilege, her plastic gun glock against my little 2" snub but what fun! I've had the 10-5 for maybe 3 months, what a gas to shoot, but there is definitely room for improvement at 10 yards. Still I tell her not to shabby for a couple old farts
Now you went and made it a family affair. Today before lunch, I said to my son I am going to the range. He said me too. He is 23, we have a welding business.
We shot the course of fire using my old bullseye 45. This is the same gun my son hit a couple rams last year in hunter silly wet.
I know I'm late to enter. My son got sick early this week so everything got put on hold. But I made it to the range tonight, however I couldn't remember what the actual challenge was other than to shoot at a B-27 target. So I took my model 15 no dash out. Loaded 20 rounds in it(not all at the same time mind you) put the target out at 15 yards. And let it fly double action style.
The planets were in alignment. I had an easy day at work, no precip and temps in the mid thirties. I raced toward home after work, stopped at Wally World and found these. The 8 ring seems the same as the B-27, the inner bull half it's size.
Shot as challenged 4-6-6-4 at 3,5,7 and 10 yards. HARD to slow down! Haven't shot this year at all except for Valentines day when I took my wife to a new indoor range and that day was really all about her.
Steyr L9-A1 Tulammo BrassMaxx 115gr fmj.
Man it was good to get out and do this! Thanks Rastoff.
Welll, I actually did not do as well as I was ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY CERTAIN I could easily do. It was a good exercise and learning experience.
I used:
1. a Beretta 92F Compact with Winchester LE +P+ ammo.
2. S&W M&P357 Sig with Speer Lawman Ammo.
and
4. S&W PC1911RB with Winchester 230-grain standard pressure ammo.
I decided to do it two-hand, then strong-hand only, followed by weak-hand only. The attached targets are marked.
Interesting, to me, the flyers, that is the ones furthest out or from the group, were fired from either the five or seven yard line. I tightened right up at the 10-yard line. Perhaps that's because I do most of my fixed target work at 10 meters and muscle memory helped. Some happened with each of the holds.
It was a 40-degree day with no sunshine and a modest breeze from behind. By the time I got to the PC1911RB my hands were quite cold, making me feel better about those groups.
I followed this with the CHL test, using only the Beretta and Winchester LE ammo. All went into a ragged 3/4" hole. I just forgot to take a picture . . .. Trust me.
NOOO! I actually strung out to the left for a total group size of about six inches. And I really did forget to take a picture. It was KOLD! I'm stickin' with that excuse.
Interesting, to me, the flyers, that is the ones furthest out or from the group, were fired from either the five or seven yard line. I tightened right up at the 10-yard line.
I had exactly the same issue and see the same from many shooters. It's a strange phenomena. I think it is a mentality vs distance. We see 7 yards as "not that far" and tend to not be as precise. Then 10 yards seems really far so, we take more time.
That's just a guess. Still, it's why the challenge has to be done at the different distances. By changing distances it adds a weird mental component.
Of course, being cold doesn't help the concentration any.
My 10 year old son and I try this every time we head out to the ranch. Doug (Rastoff) has been coaching us both here and in emails and it is amazing the difference a bit of quality, professional help gives you.
My son shot this today under the challenge rules with full-bore .357 magnum, 158 grain PMC ammo. I was STUNNED. First 10,000 Highway Patrolman made 50 years before he was born! He has done so well with it, it reminds me of what I think is a Thunder Ranch saying--beware the man with one old gun! He probably knows how to use it.
But Doug's shooting tips have built his confidence so much he shot 10 or 12 magazines through my Springfield 1911 today too. He normally won't touch--probably sounds funny to most but a 1911 is a big switch to one use to his sweet old Smith's--17, 28, 29 (with .44 Special). Moving slide, safeties, flying empties, etc. But he had a blast with with the big .45 too.
Doug has done an invaluable service to my boy and me, and I think to us all who have done the challenge. Frankly, I have no worry that my son could defend himself if he had to with his 28.
Alright; I finally was able to get to the range and enter the contest. I had an awful time figuring out how to get the pictures to Photobucket, then to the forum, but it appears that I finally was able to get it accomplished.
The gun is one of my house guns -a 686-6. Load is .357 125gr JHPs over 16gr of VV N110(I don't think load info was required, but there it is anyway.)
The first two pictures show that the dimensions of the oval centers are the same as a B27; 2" x 3". In the other pictures I attempted to provide measurements for the group. However I apparently wasn't standing directly above the target as I took them. Using my dial caliper the measurement in the third picture is approximately 1.427", and the one in the fourth picture is appromimately 1.6". I'll let Rastoff use his measuring software to determine things more precisely.
The black marks in the center of the oval are the remains of an upside down "T" which I drew with a felt-tip marker; I commonly use this marking to help align the sights.
I have lots more including with a snub nose same as this at 25 to 100 yards double action including with moon clip combat reloads.
Very Respectfully,
Larry Wood
What do "combat reloads" (whatever that is) have to do with accuracy?
Sub 3" 8 shot groups at 100 yards with a 2" or shorter barreled gun? You are the best shot I've ever heard of. Funny that you haven't posted a target that meets the conditions of the challenge. At the distances listed in the OP, you should easily be able to put all 20 shots through the same hole.
100 yards, eight rounds, DA. I posted the conditions of this the other day so won't repeat details.
Thanks for the picture, but this isn't 8 rounds:
Maybe you posted the wrong pic? Besides, the challenge is for 20 rounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PolymathPioneer
Combat reloads refer to a timed reload with moon clips. Here is an example of that at 25 yards. My split times on a good day can be as fast 0.01 seconds off the tone from the timer but usually not so fast. I have to check my timer records for a series like this with a combat reload as I don't remember off the top of my head other than its just under or (at if I am having a good day) 3 seconds.
You'll excuse me if I'm having trouble believing this.
This is what the fastest 12 shots on a single target, using a revolver, with a reload, looks like:
In case you don't recognize him, that's Jerry Miculek. He did it in 2.99 seconds and that's the current world record. And, his group is not as small as yours. So, you'll understand why I have difficulty when you say that you've beat his time, more than once. It's even more difficult when you say you're shooting that fast, at 25 yards and keeping the group smaller than 3".
I am curious though, if you shoot as good as you say you do, why aren't you winning the USPSA national championship every year? You are clearly the best shot on the circuit.
Nevertheless, this thread is as much about integrity as anything else. So, when you say you did it, I'll take you at your word. However, this thread is about a challenge I posted in the OP. I've never claimed to be a great shot, but I did post a target that meets the challenge. Some others have posted their targets. There's no reason, based on your speed, that you can't post a target that meets the criteria of the OP. Yes, it's boring, but it should be easy for you and would only take about 5 minutes to accomplish.
So, why not do it? You're at the range twice a day. You have the ammo, time and range at which to do it. Again, I look forward to the target.