<sarcasm>

Texas going OC


Open carry bill debate could start Monday | Amarillo Globe-News

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Sure you did

It will be like the OK Corral all over again, the streets will run red with blood......carnage everywhere!!!

(Has never happened that I know of)

This is GOOD news BTW.......

Randy

While "gun control" has been slowly advancing, at least the carry laws have been going our way:

That is great news. Arizona is that way also---open/concealed.
California is now a shall issue State also, but it's going through the Courts, so we will need to wait until the dust settles to see.

Thank you,
Henry

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Henry

I'd like to see a LOT more green on that map. In MI your employer can simply ban weapons on their property and your church may not give you permission to CC. So there's 6 of 7 days basically shot to heck.

[To quote GhostBusters]
Venkman: Or you can accept the fact that this city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?
Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath-of-God type stuff!
Venkman: Exactly.
Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas boiling!
Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes!
Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!
Venkman: Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats, living together! Mass hysteria!

Yeah... There's a couple Bills that keep getting introduced every session (campus Carry and Open Carry), but they always fall short of getting enough votes from each house, to get them to the Governor's desk.

Even though the Republicans dominate both houses, they still need a few Democratic votes to get these Bills passed.

It's gettin' to be a scary world.
Right here in West Virginia, they're workin' on passin' a bill allowing permitless concealed carry. We've already got open carry.

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Keep on Chooglin'

I heard that. Better gather up the family and head to the bunker.

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Sure you did

Well, what I do not understand is this:

IS the point of this open carry rule that "if we background checked you, and then you passed the concealed carry course, you can open carry, but if you're a ne'er do well (or worse) no open carry for you!"

???

Think of it like here in Tennessee. Our permit isn't designated "concealed carry". It's a Handgun Carry Permit.

There are two going through the motions this year...
Senate Bill 17 and House Bill 195.
There's discussion in this thread in the 2A Sub-Forum: Tx. House Bill 195
Looks like whatthe paper is referring to is Senate Bill 17.
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillL...=84R&Bill=SB17

Take a gander at the Bill.

We have open carry here,but over the years the vast majority of towns have banned it.What prevents that?

Colorado has State Preemption none of the towns (other than Denver which has home rule status) has the authority to "ban" open carry.

Gun laws in Colorado - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.

Next question?

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Retired Career Security Guard

Open carry is more common away from the Front Range. I see folks open carry in Longmont, but the cops do get 'man with gun' calls.

Colorado is a 'Home Rule' State which allows local municipalities to enact their own laws as long as they aren't less stringent than the state.

That's what happened in Denver, when they banned the transportation of firearms in vehicles in side Denver, you couldn't technically fly into DIA, grab your 30-06 from baggage and drive to the mountains for elk.

The state passed law allowing a firearm in the vehicle for self defense which crashed into Denver's law. There was a battle over the Home Rule statute and Denver lost. I think only Denver residents can't transport firearms in their vehicles.


Smoke has a better answer.

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SWCA #2817

State preemption means that no town in Colorado can write any gun laws period. The State has preempted that area of the law.


Again, State preemption CRS 18-12-204 says I can carry a gun in my car (which the state views as an extension of my home) and it will not be considered concealed and Denver can’t say different. The only places Denver has a say is open carry and their ridiculous “Assault Weapon” ban

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Retired Career Security Guard

State preemption laws that prevent cities/towns from passing laws or ordinances concerning the carry of firearms, as in Oklahoma, to wit: "The State Legislature hereby occupies and preempts the entire field of legislation in this state touching in any way firearms, components, ammunition, and supplies to the complete exclusion of any order, ordinance, or regulation by any municipality or other political subdivision of this state. Any existing or future orders, ordinances, or regulations in this field, except as provided for in paragraph 2 of this subsection and subsection C of this section, are null and void."

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

Open carry has been legal in Kentucky for many years, concealed for only about eighteen. When concealed carry was voted in our newspaper (a very good one till it was bought by Gannett) forecast blood in the gutters, mass slaughter of innocent bystanders, etc.

A year later they did a follow-up, and to their credit told the truth. Which was that CCW license holders were arrested less often for any offense, violent or not, than the general population. They might have figured out sooner that we are the law-abiding ones carrying guns, but they had to be shown.

I was pleased that they had enough integrity to publish their findings.

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Oh well, what the hell.

Gentlemen yesterday (Sunday) was way too scary in Arvada,CO. Let me explain. My wife purchased a new 60LS .357 (being politically correct we did not have any bullets in the truck) and on the way home we were behind an old Dodge pick-up at a light.

UNBELIEVABLE , scary , threatening , trajedy in the making. On his back window it said things like; "Don't Tread On Me , Live Free or Die , The Second Amendment Ain't About Duck Hunting , RMGO Rocky Mountain Gun Owners AND he had an American Flag too. The guy must be a gun lover...I was never so glad when he turned right and we went straight.

Straight home to admire and compare the new purchase with the 637PC she bought on 12/26/14! I have such a wonderful wife!

I'm not a big fan of open carry, and not for the reasons most would think. I am a 2nd Amendment supporter and I think it supports open carry being the law of the land. But, regardless of it's legal standing, I think in many instances open carry is a bad idea tactically and I think a lot of people open carry because it's a current fad, it's the cool thing to do because "by God it's my right as an American!" Open carry to me falls into the catagory of just because you have the right to do it, that does not necessarily mean it's the right thing to do.

I guess my point is being stupid is not of itself against the law in this country. Yeah, I know, it ought to be, but it's not. Case in point, open carry is a relatively new thing in Arkansas. I was in the local super market with my wife a few weeks back and as I steered our buggy full of groceries down the breakfast food aisle I noticed two gentlemen pushing grocery buggies heading toward one another. They were eyeing one another and seemingly admiring each other's manhood strapped to their hips. As they met right there between the Pop Tarts and Cocoa Puffs one complimented the other's piece, a stainless 1911 of some sort. A friendly conversation struck up between them and as I stood there and watched I thought "I hope one of them is not stupid enough to pull his firearm out and show it to the other one." I was wrong, they were both that stupid. Before long they were swapping guns and trying the different handguns in each other's holsters. I shook my head and turned our buggy around and went down the next aisle. Thank the Lord there weren't any kids running down the isle to grab a box of Captain Crunch while these two were exercising the weak side of their brains. What they did was not illegal, it was just inappropriate.

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- Change it back -

I totally feel the exact same way you do.

I feel that if I am in the wilderness open carry is fine. If I am n civilization, open carry is not something that I am personally going to do.

That's great news for attention seeking wimps. Look at me! I must be a Real Man because I have a gun!

Or anyone that's Pro 2A who've been fighting to reclaim the rights taken away from many Southern States in the post Civil War Reconstruction era.

Thanks for your opinion though.

Statists always have a way of finding these threads.

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Sure you did

Are you trying to attach that stupidity to all people who carry openly? Because I can wax just as stupid about concealed carry:

"I prefer concealed carry because it makes me look unarmed and gives me more opportunity to shoot some human scum."
"I prefer to conceal so I can use some of those witty replies I've been practicing in front of the mirror, like, 'Surprise! Do you feel lucky punk...do ya?'"
"I carry concealed so nobody will know I have a gun and then I can whip it out and be a hero."

Open carry is about options. Here in WA I can carry concealed (if I get state permission), I can carry openly, I can carry sort-of concealed (pistol exposed when I reach or bend for example), or I can change from concealed to open whenever the need arises (concealed into a restaurant, then coat off and carry openly). EDIT to add: Open carry also means your CCW/CPL isn't in danger if it inadvertently becomes exposed.

Just because the press devotes a lot of coverage to open carry with a pejorative spin, doesn't mean you should take it as typical or even factual. As a gun owner you should know that.

This post could have come verbatim from the “Mom’s Demand Action” website, just sayin’

When we as gun owners belittle other gun owners who exercise their Second Amendment Rights in a different way than we do we’re doing Mike Bloomberg’s work for him.

I’ve waivered back and forth on open carry but I think I’ve finally come to the conclusion that even though open carry isn’t something I would do (I have in the past) and even though the actions of some individual open carriers are (IMO) kinda dumb As a gun owner I have to come down on the side of supporting the free expression of the Second Amendment.

If an individual steps out of line while open carrying or violates the Rights of a business owner or anyone else then that individual should be held accountable not the entire class of open carriers.

Alternatively, the next time someone with a concealed handgun permit commits a crime we can pull your permit in response

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Retired Career Security Guard

So, you're in favor of gun control? Why not just carry the way YOU feel comfortable and support others as they carry the way THEY wish.

Pretty simple isn't it, except that there are many statists amongst us.

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Sure you did

So you support the guys walking around with AR's slung across their chests?

I support everyone to be treated equally under the Constitution. That includes cops, ex-cops and the neighborhood butcher.

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Sure you did

Well, it's legal in Texas, but carrying a 3 inch S&W Model 13 revolver in a discreet holster tucked in close to your body isn't,...yet.

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

The open carry thing DUMB!!!! All that dose is tell the robber that I have a gun and you can take it when I'm not looking or I don't know how to defend myself and you can take my gun and shoot everyone here in the store or on the street!!!! I beleve that 90% of people that CCW can protect them self in a bad situation. Because they are only going to pull there gun out if in grave danger.

Any 'law' that restricts a constitutional right is not a law.
There can be no misunderstanding.
IIA is clear.
This state enacted a charter revision a few years ago that included specific language to emphasize IIA.
What was part of the Constitution of the United states of America is also part of the Constitution of the State of Maine.
As it should be in all states.

Rock on. April 8th 2015 Augusta 1:00 pm Hearing on LD 652 for Constitutional Carry.

WHO'S GONNA BE THERE??????

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~ From the Land of Lobstah ~

Judge Scalia says you are wrong. And quite correctly.

"We find that {the elements of the Second Amendment} guarantee the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose."
- Justice Antonin Scalia, District of Columbia v. Heller (2008)

Just because you demand to have the right to do something and try to hide it behind an argument that the 2nd A is your end all be all right to do as you wish with no limits, well that doesn't make it true. EVERY right has a natural limit for the good of society and the community we all live in. You can't sacrifice virgins as part of your religion, nor can you blare rap music at 5000 decibels in your neighborhood at 3am or walk naked through a kindergarten playground at lunch or take a dump on the sidewalk in front of your own house. There are such limits because we need to live in a relative balance of harmony.

Besides the incredibly short sided, immature and tactically foolish reasons for open carry, one of the best arguments against it is that it inevitably scares those who disagree with gun ownership, or more alarmingly, those who are neutral. The supposed 'right' to strap on a .44 mag and walk into Micky D's and make folks' eyes pop open is no right - it is an act of being a bullying, arrogant, confrontational imbecile.

The dirty secret here is that some, not all, but a portion of OC proponents want it JUST for that reason...to go into 'liberal' establishments and make them squirt their pants. Is this really the best way to evangelize the 2nd A? Are those people who look forward to "gettin' at them durn libs!" the best representatives of an Amendment that the best brightest and most intelligent of us all, our Founding Fathers, so carefully crafted? Is visually 'attacking' those who are neutral really going to win the day for our argument in the end?

To those morons who are supporting OC because of some "lets make the Volvo and Starbucks crowd pee into their Birkenstocks" motivation, I say please take up some other hobby. You are a pathetic cancer and disease that will destroy the 2nd A, and the biggest reason anti-gunning politicos had any success ever to begin with; you are the biggest problem responsible, intelligent and adult gun owners face.

As has been pointed out before, OC does NOTHING, not ONE solitary single thing that CCW can't do better. It provides a huge net negative tactically, it makes you a conspicuous joke to those who are undecided, it makes you a poster boy for folks who are vigorously working to destroy the 2ndA, and it places your wife or child downrange by the target (Mr. OC guy) in a gunfight. And it returns not one single solitary thing in return except "LOOK AT ME! I HAVE A GUN ON! WHEE!!"

If you're proud of how those colossal fools at Open Carry Texas have behaved at the Texas Capitol or in various restaurants, then no argument can convince you otherwise because your judgment center is apparently crippled.

If you are embarrassed by the behavior of such cartoonish goons, then consider that this is EXACTLY what you will look like to the undecided and unsure people in our communities, and that image will be the "Ambassador" of sorts used by anti-gunners and the media to tear us down as much as possible. Do you really want to wear that mantle? Is wearing in the open really worth sacrificing all of that?

I don't doubt that many, many good hearted folk support OC but do so without considering the Doctrine Of Good Intentions. It is serpent in the garden promising you wonderful, attention getting results in the name of 'freedom and liberty', but in the end it will serve only to put a hugely un-needed target on the backs of all gun owners.

Rights have limits for very good, Constitutional reasons. The tired bromide of "The 2nd A is my permit" is intellectually vacant and untrue. As mentioned at the beginning of this long winded screed, Judge Scalia (arguably the most conservative and Constitutional minded Justice we have), recognized clearly that all rights must have natural limits. The 2nd A guarantees your right to own guns and not be inhibited by the govt in the ownership or use of those guns for self defense (which I strongly support), but it does NOT say that you have the right to shock another's conscience, scaring them and thus disrupting the community. Aside from foolishly forfeiting every conceivable tactical advantage possible, this this is the only other thing OC accomplishes.

Demanding that OC is a 'constitutional right' while wearing black rifles and Airsoft pistols slung on hip holsters to make that point is no different than gays marching down main street naked while stroking each other or PETA throwing fake blood on people's furs - it is seeking the acceptance of a behavior that offends or terrifies peaceful people in the community while trying to justify it as a 'right'.

It's actually kind of another form of judicial activism - reading into what is not clearly written there so as to get one's way. We conservatives SCREAM when socialist whackos do things like that...so why would we want to do the same? We shouldn't be using the tactics of the extreme left unless we want the reputation of the left - the price to be paid for appearing so aggressive and extreme will eventually backfire on us and the Amendment we love so dearly.

It's frankly not very hard to be more adult than GLADD , ACORN, Code Pink or PETA, and we better be if we want the undecided in America to see this debate the way we do. Open Carry is a selfish empty promise that yields nothing, but can cost us brutally by being so monumentallym easily misunderstood. No PR campaign can recover what we lose if 1,000,000 people see an OC look like an idiot or wingnut on national news. You can't fight a horrible image that sticks.

Carry CCW is carrying with class, consideration and common sense and works light years better when it comes to preserving and protecting our rights, our Constitution, our loved ones, our community, our safety and our side of the debate.

Mikey... Which way someone chooses to carry is not the issue and this thread is not intended to be an Open vs Concealed debate. Hopefully, it won't turn into one.

Most probably Won't Open Carry. The issue, as oberon mentioned, is being able to Open Carry, should one choose to not bother to Concealed Carry.

You carry how you choose and let others carry how they choose, whether you think it's 'Dumb' or not.

I'm not try to start a debate on open or concealed carry that was just my opinion on the open carry laws.

The anti's predicted blood running in the streets when Ohio did away with the ban on restaurant and bar carry a few years ago. You still can't carry and drink, but no longer do you have to disarm when taking the family to Applebee's.

Cool!
From what I read of the Bill (of course, I could have missed it in all the Legalese ), this probably won't effect Texas' "51%" laws (which exempts people from carrying in any establishment that obtains at least 51% of its revenue from the sale & consumption of alcohol), but who knows... If this Bill passes, that could be the next step.
Here... Applebee's, Chili's, Outback, etc are fair game... But not Bars/Saloons.

I see the "likes" are really piling up on mikey460sw's opinion of open carry.

Each time a new firearm freedom law passes in Virginia the anti's start yelling about our streets turning red & taking their children off the streets!

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I'm 67. I don't do timeouts.

Kansas just got a step closer to Constitutional concealed carry this morning as the House Committee passed it. Next step the full House then the Governor. Getting closer to a reality.

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GreyOwl

I read that recently, congrats to Kansas joining the other 5 or 6 CC States.
WV is supposedly next to go CC.

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Sure you did

Open carry has been legal in Virginia as far back as I can remember. It doesn't appear to have made any difference one way or another. I don't see that very often around here. Most times, it looks like the carrier is a young guy. I figure he hasn't got a permit or is new enough to the experience that carrying a gun it something he wants to show off...I haven't openly carried a handgun since I got out of uniformed patrol. But if others choose to, I don't care...I do favor it being legal.

As I commented in one of the other many Texas OC threads...

"You guys still need to get rid of that training requirement and bring down the cost for your license. Training? To practice a right? Also $140 to start and $70 to renew? Forget about it."

Don't tell Texans what to do. Worry about your own state.

A bargain at twice the price. All rights have a cost whether the cost is financial, or in liberty. We pay the man to play.

In PA we pay $20 and our licenses to carry firearms are good for 5 years. No training requirement either. I don't see any training requirements for any other rights either.

No, an infringement at any price.

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Retired Career Security Guard

Michigan is a open carry state you need no permit to open carry a pistol. But to conceal you need a permit and a background check. The up side to getting a permit is you don't need a complete background check to purchase a gun.

Having the permit does give you the choice of carry so if you are concealed and happen to display your gun you can't be charged with banishing.

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Carpriver.

Whatever your stance, open carry makes a whole lot more sense than "gun free zone."

A lot of good opinions/answers to ponder...Best answer is the gun free zone one in my opinion.

Advertising that aspect is NUTS! It's like "This home is un-armed" with a flashing neon light out front.

Open carry , not opposed with the acompanying resposibility. Personally the element if discrection and surprise is most preferable...