Would you shoot an individual waving a knife at you

I have been wondering how far I would go if someone was waving a knife at me and not knowing how far he would go. It seems Chicago seems to think a policeman should stand and take it since they are inditing him for murder. Course I guess it also depends on which individual was shot too.

Depends? If attack is eminent yes.

Lots of variables in that situation. A guy with a knife in your face is one thing. A guy with a knife 20' away from you is something else altogether.

I hate to say it, but, based on what I saw in that video, the cop was wrong and will probably go down for voluntary manslaughter.

Bob

If I thought they were serious, yes, without hesitation. The old rule of thumb is that a person with a knife can cover 20 feet and stab you before the average person can make the decision to shoot, take aim, and fire.

There was an episode of myth busters about knife in a gun fight. I think 20 feet or so and the knife wins. Can't remember. It was surprising

Probably not if it was only me. I would try to run if possible. Now , if it involved one of my grand kids or wife, then that would be an entirely different deal. I would just hate to shoot anybody for anything. That has to hurt.
Peace,
gordon

5 days before this 16 year old young man was riddled with bullets, another young black man was shot while running away. While they admitted he was running away (?) they claimed he was armed-video showed he was not armed. This is a pattern that has to be stopped. Abominable.

This is the kind of scenario that I dread. Even if the subject charges you with intent to kill, some will say you didn't need to use deadly force. People don't realize how dangerous a knife wielding attacker is. Even an unarmed man can quickly become armed (with your gun) if you let your guard down.

There are 4-criteria to consider before pulling the trigger. Simply having a knife that you are aware of only represents one of the four, and that is means.

A knife is a weapon that affords the opportunity of doing harm to somebody else, but there needs to be opportunity and intent to go along with the means. Somebody with a knife that is 50-yds away does not have the opportunity to threaten somebody at that distance. 7-yds is a different story. At 7-yds, the person with with knife may have opportunity, but are they displaying intent. Talking tough with a knife at 7-yds could be borderline intent, whereas, charging at 7-yds is clear intent. Then, you have the 4th criteria, which is preclusion. Do you have the ability to remove your yourself from the incident and is nobody else in jeopardy if you simply flee. In the end, you'll need to justify that your life or some other life was in jeopardy to justify a shot.

I.M.O.P. Principle

WA101 said:

There are 4-criteria to consider before pulling the trigger. Simply having a knife that you are aware of only represents one of the four, and that is means.

A knife is a weapon that affords the opportunity of doing harm to somebody else, but there needs to be opportunity and intent to go along with the means. Somebody with a knife that is 50-yds away does not have the opportunity to threaten somebody at that distance. 7-yds is a different story. At 7-yds, the person with with knife may have opportunity, but are they displaying intent. Talking tough with a knife at 7-yds could be borderline intent, whereas, charging at 7-yds is clear intent. Then, you have the 4th criteria, which is preclusion. Do you have the ability to remove your yourself from the incident and is nobody else in jeopardy if you simply flee. In the end, you'll need to justify that your life or some other life was in jeopardy to justify a shot.

I.M.O.P. Principle

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Agreed. You don't shoot when they're at 50 ft. But if they are advancing while brandishing a knife, then drawing your CCW and taking a bead on them is called for IMO. If that doesn't stop their advance that's as much of a positive indication of their intent as I'm willing to wait to see.

My arthritic knees preclude the running away option for me. I just don't move that fast. In a case like that they aren't going to get to within 7 yards of me & mine before I'm taking action to stop the threat. Sitting there waiting to see what they are going to do until they get within charging distance would be foolish IMO.

This is one of those cases to err on the side of caution. Like the old saying - I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

I am willing to shoot anyone under justifiable circumstances.

All the new stories said the folding knife was in the closed position. Also, the 21 foot rule applies if you have to draw your weapon. If you already have it aimed, they would have to be within arms length and be very lucky. We have an IDPA moving target that charges you very quickly, from around 30 feet and just about everyone can draw and put 2 hits on the center of mass.

This is all you need to know:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9igSoJHEdUo"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9igSoJHEdUo[/ame]

amazingflapjack said:

5 days before this 16 year old young man was riddled with bullets, another young black man was shot while running away. While they admitted he was running away (?) they claimed he was armed-video showed he was not armed. This is a pattern that has to be stopped. Abominable.

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Not saying the shootings are justified by any means. The easiest way to stop this "pattern" is for these people to stop being involved in criminal activity. Individuals (and I don't care what color they are) engaging in drugs, theft and other criminal activity always seem to be shocked and play the victim card when engaged by the police. Quite frankly with all the garbage out there today I feel bad for the police who have to put their lives on the line every day dealing with these dirt bags. Walk a day in their shoes.

Mark40 said:

This is the kind of scenario that I dread. Even if the subject charges you with intent to kill, some will say you didn't need to use deadly force. People don't realize how dangerous a knife wielding attacker is. Even an unarmed man can quickly become armed (with your gun) if you let your guard down.

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That's why you have a lawyer who to explain that to the jury, and he will show the jury the number of police training videos that cover the "21 foot rule". As for the "young man"'killed by police that was caught on video, the cop was wrong only because he continued to shoot when the PCP taking "young man" was down. I believe that cop is going to be found guilty, not because of the facts (and his lawyer will surely show the jury the training videos that officer undoubtedly saw), but because the mayor and prosecutor don't want any riots. Justice has swung the other way in this country. All white juries used to acquit obviously guilty men accused of crimes against blacks, which was wrong. Now biased juries will condemn a person for fear of being viewed as racist.

But as for ME, the 21 foot rule applies, but anyone who has ever been taught that rule (and you can see the videos on YouTube), knows that every single situation is different. If my gun is holstered before the attacker begins his charge, regardless of whether my hand in on the gun or not, I'm gonna get cut before I can shoot the guy. If my gun is out, I'm pointing it at the bad guy and backing up. That guy takes one step towards me and he is getting shot.

ankona said:

Not saying the shootings are justified by any means. The easiest way to stop this "pattern" is for these people to stop being involved in criminal activity. Individuals (and I don't care what color they are) engaging in drugs, theft and other criminal activity always seem to be shocked and play the victim card when engaged by the police. Quite frankly with all the garbage out there today I feel bad for the police who have to put their lives on the line every day dealing with these dirt bags. Walk a day in their shoes.

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Exactly. Don't commit crimes and comply with the police when you are caught and nobody gets hurt. I have zero sympathy for criminals who get shot when they don't comply. The world will not miss a PCP taking loser who is breaking into cars.

agksimon said:

All the new stories said the folding knife was in the closed position. Also, the 21 foot rule applies if you have to draw your weapon. If you already have it aimed, they would have to be within arms length and be very lucky. We have an IDPA moving target that charges you very quickly, from around 30 feet and just about everyone can draw and put 2 hits on the center of mass.

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Is that moving paper target trying to stab the shooter? Kind of changes things, doesn't it? And we all know handgun rounds aren't instant man stoppers, so even well placed hits aren't insuring a stop before you get cut.

And a good lawyer will rip the cops who arrested you apart on the stand. He will show the jury the training videos the officers viewed in the academy and get the cop to admit how dangerous a knife is within 21 feet.

Bottom line, you threaten me with a knife and I am backing up. You move one inch towards me and you are getting shot. Knife wounds are nasty things. I'd rather get shot than stabbed.

I went through training similar to what is depicted in the video here and you can and will be cut or stabbed if the bad guy is within 20 feet of you. I'm not going to comment on the Chicago video since it's too fuzzy and I don't have all the facts.

Seems to me they were pursuing an armed felon. Had he not been stopped, what would have happened to the next unarmed citizen this fleeing armed felon encountered? For that reason I'm on the side of law and order. There are consequences to waving a weapon around on the street in the commission of a crime.
What's the alternative, let him go and embolden him to perhaps escalate his criminal activity?

I never want to have to use deadly force, to protect family, self, or friends. I do believe I would if necessary. That being said, if someone with a knife or any other non firearm weapon, is a threat to me and they get within 25', it's time to stop the threat.