Open or Concealed Carry on Someone Else's Property in Texas

There was a debate some time ago about whether or not you could permit someone to openly carry (concealed is the same argument but open carry is easier to understand in this context) a handgun on your own property. Someone said that the law does not give a private property owner permission to waive the law on his or her private property. That is correct. The law is very clear about what you can do on your own premises or premises that you control but it says nothing about third parties (without the usual exceptions, e.g., hunting, fishing, etc.). Therefore, believe me when I tell you that you do not have the right under the current Texas law to waive the prohibitions against openly carrying handguns on your property.

So how is this accomplished? We all have done it or know people who have done it, and have we broken the law?

This is how :

First, I refer you to the Dallas Police Department FAQs on Open Carry that I posted earlier.

Here's just one piece of it:

> Handguns without an LTC
>  The open carry of handguns in public is prohibited in
>Texas, unless the person holds an LTC for a handgun....

The next question, then, is whether or not carrying openly on PRIVATE property constitute carrying in public? In other words, is visible open carry a problem on private property?

If it is not then, sure, you can carry openly on someone else's private property if you have permission. The issue is whether it's in public - and, there is no definition. However, if you search the word "public" in the FAQs you will get the sense that "public" means areas accessible to the general public. The best way to see that is the restriction on carrying weapons into the "non-public" areas of a government building.

It's one of those things that needs to be defined in reverse - if it is an area open to the general public then it is a "public" area. If it's a place NOT OPEN TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, like private property, then, by implication, anyway, a property owner can indeed permit anyone to carry a handgun openly or concealed on his private property.

And THAT is exactly how it is done - purely by the implied condition of not being a public place. The private property owner is not waiving the law, there is no place that grants the private property owner the right to give permission to third parties to violate the rule that "The open carry of handguns in public is prohibited in Texas...", etc. The fact of not being in a public place allows the private property owner to grant permission, notwithstanding the rules about public carry. It's not public, pure and simple.

Now we know! It took me awhile to get there.......

Minneapolis police ran into this. Under MN law, you can carry in your own yard, open or concealed. Also in your neighbors yard, if neighbor approves. Cops thought otherwise, but court disagreed.
There are few universal laws regulating gun owners, but there are a lot of state specific laws.

This one seems like common sense to me. Public vs. private places. Just like traffic laws. They can't tell me how fast I can drive or that my vehicle has to have tags, or that I have to have a license, or much of anything else when I'm driving around on my own property. Seems like use and handling of firearms by people legally eligible to have or handle them would be the same.

This one seems like common sense to me. Public vs. private places.

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It's only common sense AFTER you read the danged statute over and over. Remember, the old Texas state law is VERY specific about not carrying a handgun. On a parallel subject, to show you why it bears thought and doesn't come to you instantly until the light really dawns - because we discussed drinking as a similar issue (we discussed murder, too*).

Can a homeowner permit minors under the age of 21 to drink on private property? The Federal alw and then Texas law say 21. Is there a waiver if you're home, etc?

Turns out the law is apparently viewed this way:

When Prohibition was repealed in 1933, many states put their purchase ages at 21 because that was the age of majority way back then, but a few had lower limits. Most of these ages stayed the same until the 1970s. About 30 states lowered their purchase ages to around 18. The voting age was lowered to 18 in the early 1970s, and the drinking ages were lowered to comply with the voting age. Several states started to raise their drinking ages to deal with drunk driving deaths, however.

The drinking age in Texas was lowered to 18 in 1971, and it was then raised to 19 in 1979. It was further raised to 21 in 1984, and it was done to be in line with the law passed at the federal level. It remains 21 to this day.

There are special exceptions to the 21-year-old legal minimum drinking age in Texas. Minors can drink in a private home, on private property with parental consent and presence, and in a private office, all of which must require a parent to be present. They can also drink on premises where they sell alcohol with a parent present.

Title 4 Chapter 106 says that minors can drink if they’re in the presence of an adult spouse, guardian, or adult parent, but that person has to be visibly present. In other words, they need chaperoning, and they have to be in clear view of their chaperone. Interestingly, Texas doesn’t allow the consumption of alcohol by minors for religious, medical, or government work-related purposes. However, the presence of a parent or adult guardian can allow for drinking in all these circumstances. The basic issue is that minors have to be supervised when drinking in Texas.

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(c) drinking.com 2013

That makes common sense, too, once you put it all together!

The "murder" discussion came up because someone ventured "if you can waive the law against carrying handguns on your own property why can't you waive the laws against murder". Clearly you cannot do that - but that's what made me read and re-read and re-read the statute.