IDAHO CONCEALED CARRY ALLOWED

[ladder13]

Constitutional Carry on the horizon.


Constitutional Carry Bill Heads To Idaho Governor

[crazyphil]

The Idaho House and Senate have passed a bill to allow concealed
carry without a permit. It is on the Governor's desk waiting for
his decision. Idaho's Chief's of Police placed a full page ad in
yesterday's Idaho Statesman urging Governor to veto. I'm just
relaying the news. Not expressing any political opinion.

[Cal44]

I'm sure this will be an unpopular position, but I agree with the Idaho Chiefs.

Allowing carry with no permitting or background check is taking things one step to far.

I'm in favor of requiring permits with background checks for CCW -- but with a shall issue concept like Idaho has now.

I don't consider a "shall issue" permitting process to be a violation of the constitution.

The 2A talks about a "well regulated" militia, and I consider training and background checks to fall under the "well regulated" concept.

There are few absolute rights. Your liberty and even your life can be taken away by the government for crimes committed.

BTW, I own property in Idaho and go there often. If it weren't for family ties to California, I'd move my primary residence there.

[mpc]

I 100% agree. Gun ownership requires responsibility. It is not a constitutional violation to fill out a form and get a background check done. Not hard. I don't want Johnny Badass or Frankie the felon walking around with a gun. Yes, there will always be people who violate the law, but that is not an excuse.

[ladder13]

Good for Idaho, the wave continues.

[Kid44]

In Kansas we can carry concealed, or open without a permit and so far I don't think there have been any "wild west" shootouts on the streets. As mentioned in a post above gun ownership and carrying a gun does take a lot of responsibility, but there are a lot of irresponsible people carrying guns, with and without permits. If a person is irresponsible to begin with
a concealed carry permit won't change that.

[ladder13]

Criminals have been carrying concealed for 200 years without a permit, bout time the rest of society caught up.

[growr]

I hope that the Governor signs this into law. Perhaps Montana will follow suit..........

Randy

[Mainsail]

Originally Posted by Cal44

The 2A talks about a "well regulated" militia, and I consider training and background checks to fall under the "well regulated" concept.

Well regulated in this context has nothing to do with regulations (like rules and laws). It refers to practice and familiarity with your arms. It was not the intent of the founders to write into the constitution that the militia was to have many rules and laws, but to be practiced and ready.

[DWalt]

"The 2A talks about a "well regulated" militia, and I consider training and background checks to fall under the "well regulated" concept."

In the constitutional context, "Well Regulated" has absolutely nothing to do with government regulation, but rather precision in shooting. Regulation implies being able to hit what you shoot at, achieved by becoming familiar with guns, owning guns, and practicing shooting. Sorry that you did not understand that.

[Mainsail]

Originally Posted by mpc

I 100% agree. Gun ownership requires responsibility. It is not a constitutional violation to fill out a form and get a background check done. Not hard. I don't want Johnny Badass or Frankie the felon walking around with a gun. Yes, there will always be people who violate the law, but that is not an excuse.

Do you seriously believe that a felon, who is forbidden by law to even be near a gun, will behave any different whether there are permits or constitution carry?

Yahoos will believe in weird religions, say ridiculous things, and some will even carry guns. They're called civil rights, and civil rights can be scary sometimes.

[keith44spl]

Originally Posted by crazyphil

The Idaho House and Senate have passed a bill to allow concealed
carry without a permit. It is on the Governor's desk waiting for
his decision. Idaho's Chief's of Police placed a full page ad in
yesterday's Idaho Statesman urging Governor to veto. I'm just
relaying the news. Not expressing any political opinion.

Not to be political....

I wouldn't think there is a goodly amount of votes from
'Chiefs of Police' to sway a elected Governor....

These things general follow the larger populous of constituents.
I'd look for Governor C.L. 'Butch' Otter to sign it,
he may be looking for a third term.



.

[Watchdog]

Originally Posted by Mainsail

It was not the intent of the founders to write into the constitution that the militia was to have many rules and laws, but to be practiced and ready.

I wish I were clairvoyant so I could see into the past and discern what the Founding Fathers were really thinking back in the 1700s. I could rewrite the history books; Americans would be astounded to read the true story behind this country's early years, I'll bet.

[-db-]

Originally Posted by WATCHDOG

I wish I were clairvoyant so I could see into the past and discern what the Founding Fathers were really thinking back in the 1700s. I could rewrite the history books; Americans would be astounded to read the true story behind this country's early years, I'll bet.

In the case of the 2nd Amendment, no clairvoyance is required, only a dictionary, contextual/supporting documents and honesty.

[Targets Guy]

I would think the Federalists papers talk to the 2nd amendment?

[mwhals]

It will be law in WV in June.

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by Cal44

I'm sure this will be an unpopular position, but I agree with the Idaho Chiefs.

Allowing carry with no permitting or background check is taking things one step to far.

I'm in favor of requiring permits with background checks for CCW -- but with a shall issue concept like Idaho has now.

I don't consider a "shall issue" permitting process to be a violation of the constitution.

The 2A talks about a "well regulated" militia, and I consider training and background checks to fall under the "well regulated" concept.

There are few absolute rights. Your liberty and even your life can be taken away by the government for crimes committed.

BTW, I own property in Idaho and go there often. If it weren't for family ties to California, I'd move my primary residence there.

All "shall issue" does is create a revenue stream for somebody. Missouri has a constitutional carry bill winding its way through various committees, but it is unlikely the Governor will sign it if it even makes it through both chambers . . .

[DevilDog72]

I look for the day the Great State of Texas goes to Constitutional Carry. I can hardly wait.


"... shall not be infringed...."

[keith44spl]

Originally Posted by Cal44

I'm sure this will be an unpopular position, but I agree with the Idaho Chiefs.

Allowing carry with no permitting or background check is taking things one step to far.

.

Ah, you do realize that criminals don't have any regard for
the laws related to firearms or the lawful carry of same...

Or any other statutes on the books for that matter.
Outlaws have been concealed carrying weapons and using
them to ply their trade since well before the invention of the firearm.

Such worry is for naught, in my book.

But, I do sometimes wonder if Cain concealed carried that jawbone he used to kill his brother Able?




.

[AlHunt]

Originally Posted by Cal44

I'm sure this will be an unpopular position, but I agree with the Idaho Chiefs.

Allowing carry with no permitting or background check is taking things one step to far.

No, it's not. 8 states have decided to obey the Constitution and get out of their citizens way to carry a concealed firearm. No problems.

Originally Posted by Cal44

I don't consider a "shall issue" permitting process to be a violation of the constitution.

It violates the 2nd, 5th, 6th and 14th amendments to the Constitution.

Originally Posted by Cal44

The 2A talks about a "well regulated" militia, and I consider training and background checks to fall under the "well regulated" concept.

You misunderstand "well regulated". It refers to a well functioning militia, as in a "well regulated" clock functions well and keeps good time. It has nothing to do with rules and regulations.

Originally Posted by Cal44

There are few absolute rights.

But the 2nd amendment is 27 simple, crystal clear words. Any ambiguity is due to 240 of scholarly interpretation, usually brought about by someone trying to dismantle it.

In the end, Constitutional Carry is just not a problem. We've had it for 6 months now. Criminals carry anything they want and don't obey laws.

[keith44spl]

Originally Posted by Cal44

It sounds like you are saying people will do whatever they want regardless of the laws.

The trouble is, if you take that thinking far enough, then why have any laws on the books at all on any subject?

The best we can do is make reasonable laws and enforce them as much as is practical.

Law abiding folks...purty much adhere to the statutes....

It's those that operate outside of those statutes and laws, they are the ones that don't give a
hoot in hell about what firearm laws some state legislators pass or don't pass.

The only time the laws of the land concerns the outlaw, is when they are caught.
And what with some systems and over-crowding it's not all that much of a concern.

I once arrested the same individual 5 times for the same criminal offense....
And the cat hadn't been to court on the first offense yet.

Yes, criminals will do as they please, in spite of the laws of our land and
in the face of everyone that stands for law and order.

Here's a less than novel idea,

Let's not shackle the law abiding with over-regulation....Let's shackle criminals.



.

[AlHunt]

Originally Posted by mpc

I 100% agree. Gun ownership requires responsibility. It is not a constitutional violation to fill out a form and get a background check done.

In fact, it is. 2nd, 5th, 6th and 14th, to be specific.

Originally Posted by mpc

I don't want Johnny Badass or Frankie the felon walking around with a gun.

Both of those guys have guns already. In fact, we had one of them off his girlfriend around here last summer and then spend 2 months on the run, in our woods and neighborhoods, breaking into homes and stealing cars. The threat was real and imminent. Constitutional Carry wasn't quite the law of our state at that time. The CC process takes a coupe of months around these parts. People have a God given right to defend themselves and should not have been in a position to ask the state "pretty please" and wait, while Johnny Baddass was lurking around the shadows.

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by Targets Guy

I would think the Federalists papers talk to the 2nd amendment?

I'm not sure it's mentioned much at all, maybe a paragraph or two in one of them. The Federalist Papers didn't give much attention to the Bill of Rights . . .

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by AlHunt

In fact, it is. 2nd, 5th, 6th and 14th, to be specific.

The avenue enacted by the Constitution has declared otherwise . . .

[DevilDog72]

The law abiding people of this land do not deserved to be equated to the lawless and their indiscriminate use of fire arms and blatant disregard of the laws of the land. If you are afraid of up standing citizens, their God given rights provided for and guaranteed by the Constitution, having the means to keep an overbearing government at bay and protecting themselves and their own..... well, what does that say about you?

".... shall not be infringed..."

[Mainsail]

I made this handy chart for those that think the permitting/licensing schemes matter.

[jack the toad]

I think in Okla. theres a bill now going forward for Constitutional carry. I hope for both concealed and non-concealed.

[jic]

Originally Posted by crazyphil

The Idaho House and Senate have passed a bill to allow concealed
carry without a permit. It is on the Governor's desk waiting for
his decision. Idaho's Chief's of Police placed a full page ad in
yesterday's Idaho Statesman urging Governor to veto. I'm just
relaying the news. Not expressing any political opinion.

The Idaho police chief's that placed the add in the Statesman
Where Meridian',Garden City's,and Boise police Chief's.

[jic]

I believe Governor Otter will sign it into law, and I hope soon.

[Turn & Bank]

Originally Posted by Kid44

In Kansas we can carry concealed, or open without a permit and so far I don't think there have been any "wild west" shootouts on the streets. As mentioned in a post above gun ownership and carrying a gun does take a lot of responsibility, but there are a lot of irresponsible people carrying guns, with and without permits. If a person is irresponsible to begin with
a concealed carry permit won't change that.

I'm going to agree with Kid44 above. Here in Wyoming there is Constitutional Carry and as far as I know it hasn't been a problem.

Consider this: Since 1998 when NICS started a heck of a lot of people that now own firearms had to go through a background check. Even back in the 70's IIRC there have been some type of "qualification" required for purchasing a firearm. My first purchase required two property owners to come to the GS to "vouch" for the buyer if said person did not own property.

Yes there are many out there that may not have gone through the system but is there enough of them, that have criminal intent, to create "blood in the streets"?

As far as Constitutional Carry I got a CCW permit anyway because of the neighboring states and travel in and out of them legally with a firearm becomes "a pain" without it.
Anyway just voicing my 2 cents worth.
You all take care,
T & B

[Kanewpadle]

I don't need the government to tell me what they think I should or shouldn't do. And I'm well past the age of needing a babysitter.

Too many people are contorting our constitution to fit their beliefs. You either support the 2A in its entirety or you don't. Half way doesn't count.

We don't need no stinking badges or pieces of paper to carry a gun.

[AlHunt]

Originally Posted by Mainsail

I made this handy chart for those that think the permitting/licensing schemes matter.

Thank you. That may be the most helpful thing I've ever seen on the internet.

[Capt. F.]

Vermont has never had a permit system for carry. Legal to buy a hunting license? Ok to carry.
My state, Maine, has both, CC & permitted. Within state you don't need a permit, but I have one due to recognition in other states.
Neither Maine or Vermont are hotbeds of increased violence because of our states carry policies.

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

The avenue enacted by the Constitution has declared otherwise . . .

What are you talking about? Avenues? Declaring? Enacted?

[jic]

Governor Otter has signed Idaho's Constitutional carry bill into law

[AlHunt]

According to this article, he let it become law without his signature. Either way, it doesn't matter.

BREAKING: Idaho Becomes Ninth Constitutional Carry State - The Truth About Guns

Welcome Idahoans to the Liberty and Freedom Club!

Now, act right and don't make us come out there and smack you up alongside the head.

[crazyphil]

The legislature gave the bill a veto proof margin so whether Gov. Otter
signed it or just let it become law doesn't matter.

[Wally West]

Congrats to Idaho for implementing something my home state of Vermont has had for over 200yrs. Just carrying a firearm does not make anyone less safe or lead to more crime anymore than driving a car leads to car accidents if your responsible. If your not then you pay the price. I find it interesting that people can say they support our Constitution in it's entirety but on just one point they want restrictions. From the way that the media has acted over our history I'd say the Freedom of The Press needs to go. I'd like someone to compare the crime rate using a firearm from the other 8 states that allow it in a "before and after" test to see what happened. I strongly suspect it would be like the doom and gloom predicted for Florida by the anti-firearm people who predicted shoot outs at traffic lights. Nothing happened.

I did read that it applies only to Idaho residents the same as in Vermont. Is this because a State Constitution can only apply to citizens of that state? I never considered that before.

[AlHunt]

Originally Posted by Wally West

I did read that it applies only to Idaho residents the same as in Vermont. Is this because a State Constitution can only apply to citizens of that state? I never considered that before.

It must just be the way they enacted it. Maine's new CC law applies to anyone and everyone within our borders. resident or visitor.

I bought a new mop just in case, but so far, no blood in the streets.

[crazyphil]

The Idaho Stateman article today, quoting an article in the Spokesman
Review by Betsy Z. Russell: " Otter signs bill allowing concealed weapons
without permits. The gun bill allows Idahoans 21 and older to carry
concealed guns inside cities without a permit.
Otter proclaimed himself "a gun owner, a hunter and a lifetime member of
the National Rifle Association," but said he had concerns about the
bill's lack of provision for education and training. "Such a safeguard
would seem to be part of the Second Amendment's "well regulated
standard." he said. He also said a training requirement would have
addressed the safety concerns of law enforcement leaders."

"In the absence of such a provision", Otter wrote, "I encourage anyone
considering concealed carry to take advantage of gun-safety training
opportunities available from many reputable sources throughout Idaho."
He urged the Legislature to monitor the new law and see if additional
training requirements are needed."

[keith44spl]

Originally Posted by jic

Governor Otter has signed Idaho's Constitutional carry bill into law

Congratulations to the fine folks of Idaho and their elected leaders for this common sense measure.

The time has come for all good men to come to the aid of their country.

For one to defend their families, themselves and their country
they must be prepared to do so at all times and places.

That is all.


.

[Kanewpadle]

Originally Posted by keith44spl

Congratulations to the fine folks of Idaho and their elected leaders for this common sense measure.

The time has come for all good men to come to the aid of their country.

For one to defend their families, themselves and their country
they must be prepared to do so at all times and places.

That is all.


.

That's it in a nutshell. Simple and straight forward.

Well said sir.

[AlHunt]

Originally Posted by crazyphil

The Idaho Stateman article today, quoting an article in the Spokesman
Review by Betsy Z. Russell: " Otter signs bill allowing concealed weapons without permits.

Nice that he stood up and actually signed it. Very nice.

Originally Posted by crazyphil

" but said he had concerns about the bill's lack of provision for education and training. "Such a safeguard would seem to be part of the Second Amendment's "well regulated standard."

The Second Amendment contains no provision for training or education. The difference now is that we have so many people trying to demonize firearms and firearms owners. As a result, even the most basic of firearms safety training for kids is ignored entirely in the schools and often at home.

But, the Governor signed it. 9 down, 41 to go.

[Kanewpadle]

Generations of fathers taught their sons and daughters the principles of gun safety and here we are today. We're doing just fine. They didn't have to pay someone to learn those things.

Sure we have a few buttheads here and there. But as long as we are willing to accept the consequences of our actions then things will always be fine. There are enough laws to take care of those who violate basic firearms safety. Those laws and some common sense is enough regulation.

[jack the toad]

Originally Posted by Kanewpadle

There are enough laws to take care of those who violate basic firearms safety.

More than enough IMO.

[buzzkillbob]

And yet how many of us have a driver's license? Sure, not a "Constitutional" issue per se, but not far from the same thing IMO...

[AlHunt]

Originally Posted by buzzkillbob

And yet how many of us have a driver's license? Sure, not a "Constitutional" issue per se, but not far from the same thing IMO...

Absolutely not the same thing. The right to keep and bear arms is written into the law of the land (US Constitution). Driving is not.

Driving analogies are one of the red herrings gungrabbers like to use. Let them get away with and the next next thing you'll have is mandatory "Firearm Owners Insurance".

[jack the toad]

Driving is a privilege, bearing arms is a right. Big difference.

[Alk8944]

If anyone really wants to know what the Idaho bill says, and not just what some other poster say it says, go to this link and click on "Bill Text" under the "Individual Links" tab.

Remember that this is not the "Enrolled Bill", the one that actually becomes law!

[okiegtrider]

Originally Posted by jack the toad

I think in Okla. theres a bill now going forward for Constitutional carry. I hope for both concealed and non-concealed.

I was just reading a news story about this very bill. As I understand it, with this bill open carry no permit required, concealed carry, permit required.

The bill was passed by the house with a huge margin. If it gets out of the Senate, I expect the governor will sign it.

With the way this same group of lawmakers is cutting funding to prisons and the justice system, perhaps the populace should be more armed. We certainly have no shortage of criminals.

Bill that would allow Oklahomans to open carry without a permit passes House | KFOR.com