With all the senseless random shootings in public places that have occurred recently, all of us who have CCW Permits should exercise some common sense.

This morning, My family and I were having breakfast in a local restaurant here in Tennessee when I noticed a very slovenly dressed individual standing at the buffet bar with a 9mm pistol in a holster on his hip. His sleeveless t-shirt was pulled up over the holster so that it was openly displayed, and he walked around the restaurant with a sense of bravado that was intimidating to some of the diners. Having spent the better part of my adult life in law enforcement, it was obvious to me that this guy was not an undercover cop and was just showing off. I quietly brought the situation to the attention of the restaurant manager and his attitude was that he didn't want to offend his customer. I guess he didn't care about the many other customers who were offended and intimidated (after all there are a lot of people who are just plain afraid of guns).

I called the local police who responded and quietly walked the individual out of the restaurant. They verified that he was legal, had a valid Tennessee concealed carry permit, and instructed him with regard to Tennessee Law. After placing his pistol in his vehicle he returned to the restaurant.

It is situations like this that make life more of a hassle for those of us who have CCW and or LEOSA permits, and make points for those people who would restrict our rights to properly carry weapons.

You called the police? And pestered the management about him?

I'm no fan of open carry, but I don't think I'm a fan of yours, either.

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Now go make God proud...

I agree!!




Don

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Laus Deo! <><

I to am a law enforcement officer in Tn.And Tn is a open carry state with permit.Could you just look at someone and know they were illegal .I am tired of elitist people who think only they can carry and only the way they prefer.The manager was right for not trying to offend a customer who was doing nothing wrong.

Exactly, I totally agree.......the guy apparently had a valid permit which in Tennessee means you can legally open-carry or conceal-carry.

It seems the OP doesn't know what the Tennessee "carry permit" allows in view of the title of this thread and his actions.

I hope the OP doesn't live anywhere near me.


Don

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Laus Deo! <><

EWhat part of Tn law would they have instructed him in???
Why did you call the police? Was he breaking the law??? If not then the LEO's deserve a talking to.

Wow, it seems that between the two of you.....You were the problem and the one asking for trouble.

The nerve of some people.... exercising their rights. hummmmph

"they verified that he was legal"...... and that's none of your business either. the police should have never verified anything to anyone about it.

You should have left well enough alone.

It's your job to enforce the law as it been written. Your personal opinion or feelings about the law shouldn't matter.

But in this case you took the law into your own hands and you were wrong. Learn from it and move on.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

The OP did nothing of the sort. "Taking the law into your own hands" would be to personally confront the alleged offender. Calling the police, whether justified or not, is something else.

If anything, the police should have informed the OP that open carry was legal in Tennessee for license holders.

There are so many facets to this issue it's hard to address them all in one post. I personally choose not to opencarry but support the rights of those who choose to do so.

I don't think it makes other people nervous because most of the time they don't even seem aware of it. I know this doesn't count as data but every time I point out an open carrier to my wife she isn't even aware until I do.

Sure there are idiots that open carry and I fully support taking their right to do so based on their specific behavior if they do something stupid while open carrying but I don't want to see the majority punished for the actions of a few.

Does open carry make you a target? Sure it does sometimes but sometimes just being there makes you a target.

All in all unless you can show me statistically significant numbers of open carriers being robbed for their guns or causing legitimate public disturbances I'm going to come down on the side of personal freedom

There really is no such thing as compromise with an anti. If they ever succeed in banning open carry they will focus all their resources on concealed carry They will not rest until no private citizen had the right to bear arms

Listen, and understand! That Grabber is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely.will.not .stop. until you are disarmed

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Retired Career Security Guard

I'm just not a fan of open carry. It's legal in Colorado. When I see hunters in rural areas I don't think anything of it. But in cities it causes unnecessary concern. I agree you have the right. Colorado has had several high profile shootings. I just don't think it makes other citizens comfortable. I think you also run a high risk of being shot by law enforcement.

My question is why would you give up your tactical advantage???

I don't want jumped or shot first. Just my thoughts.

Because this is such a common occurrence?

Given by the time you get your gun out the criminal has already decided the time,place and method of attack and essentially ambushed you, precisely what "tactical advantage" are you giving up? Please be specific


You can cite numerous instances of this happening right? Again, please be specific

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Retired Career Security Guard

Any stats on that?

Akai Gurley was shot by the NYPD and he didn't even HAVE a gun. Should we stay out of stairwells?

The OP's example is pure "social justice warrior" behavior.

The prejudices of others create for me no legal duty nor a moral obligation.

I was once harassed by an elderly cleaner in a Lakewood, Ohio McDonald's for wearing an NRA ballcap. Did I have some mysterious duty to remove that cap when prompted by somebody who also expressed his opinion that he "wasn't so sure that the Holocaust was a BAD thing"?

If doing a legal thing increases the odds of being shot by law enforcement, then you need different law enforcement.

I am also a supporter of, but not an advocate for, open carry. I do not believe, though, that law enforcement is more likely to shoot an open carrier.

I'm with you on this one. Idaho had open carry but I personally prefer to conceal when in public. Out hunting or otherwise out in the weeds I'll open carry weather permitting. However, most of the year out in the weeds I'm wearing a jacket anyway, making open carry a moot point.

Just an observation. How come the open carry in town crowd mostly prefer the cheap nylon holsters? I can't recall ever seeing an open carry guy in town using a Milt Sparks holster.

It's tactical nylon.

I know everyone talks about it but in my experience I've seen many open carriers and Only ever seen one in a cheapie lylon holster and it had a hi point stuffed in it and the Carrie with his dace buried in his phone

This is a typical issue that we need to get our arms around. People have a right to carry whether they look like us or not. I am not intimidated by others in my state that choose to carry openly. I think they are stupid for giving up that element of concealment... but it is legal. If I am armed and concealed, I have a measure of advantage over that idiot. If he has a holstered gun and is legal, I may watch him carefully and be ready to respond, but if he becomes a threat he is at a disadvantage. I recommend all of us that are NRA members not dress in a threatening way or be obvious about how we carry. Scaring people is not what we should be about. Being able to respond to a horrible, gravest extreme, situation is what we should be about. Quiet, peaceful, and deadly if the time dictates. Respect the lawful carry of firearms but there is no need to look threatening. That is about you, not about the right to carry.

There are a couple of issues here. Ok, it's legal. However, having been to calls of this nature, I don't think the majority of the in your face open carry crowd have any idea how many enemies each incident of this nature makes for us. It's my right to go to the store directly from the gym in slimy workout gear, with at least one moderately uncouth tattoo on my triceps showing when wearing a sleeveless shirt. (I have several tats on my upper arms.) I am also hairy - like a Sasquatch, and sweat accordingly - I stink, etc., so I don't go the store that way. Not because I care much about offending other people if I find it necessary, but because if it is not necessary I want to be below the radar.

I'm not going to call LE unless there is more going on than is described here, but the person who carrying in this manner was a buffoon of the first class. He is not our friend.

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NHI, 10-8.

The wife and I went out for a pizza Monday in KC Missouri. There was a young man in the restaurant (not a low end pizza joint but an upscale place in a very large shopping area) who was open carrying. Probably in his late 20's to early 30's with a Blackhawk plastic rig with what looked to be a EAA Witness in it. Not particularly well dressed and a large cowboy hat that looked like he borrowed it from Richard Petty. I try to stay alert and noticed him as soon as we walked in a were seated. I do not believe anyone else even noticed him (probably 50 people in the restaurant) and if they did no one seemed to be upset. My wife did not notice him till I pointed him out. Her question to me was WHY?. Missouri allows open carry if you have a CCW but in the 6 years we have lived here it is the first time I have seen anyone excersizing that right. He did not look to be showing off so maybe he open carries every day.

1. ***I*** don't open carry, because I don't WANT to.
2. If it's legal, I don't CARE if somebody else does.
3. Neither you nor the police have to like LEGAL open carry. Neither you nor the police have to like open carriers. Neither you nor the police have to LIKE the law. You and they had DAMNED well better OBEY it.
4. What you did was pure harassment based not on any illegality on the victim's part, but rather prejudice on yours.
5. The victim had NO legal duty to remove his firearm, and seemingly did so SOLELY because of the intimidation precipitated by YOU.

The difference in your attitude and that of the average "social justice warrior" is vanishingly small.

IBTL!!!!!!!!

This is the part I don't understand. If the police "verified that he was legal", why would they feel that they needed to further "instruct" him in regards to Tennessee law?

Once they "verified" the guy, that should've ended their involvement then and there.

Frankly, if I'd been the guy, I'd have just left and found somewhere else to eat. I don't need verifyin'. I'm too old to be puttin' up with that kind of paranoid B.S.

It's more than just paranoid. It's arrogant and bullying.

A new term has been coined for the "social justice warriors". They're now being called "crybullies", which is an apt term. It refers to somebody who while professing fear or "insult" acts to put his or her foot on the back of somebody's neck, to not only make them conform, but to make them VOCALLY AGREE.

Well, there's busy bodies in all walks of life.........

Thank goodness for the ignore feature here.


.

"I Called The Local Police" Ah, did ya use 911 or a non-emergence number ???


Well, Riddle me this....If, you saw someone 'Mexican Carrying' would you sic the INS on em?


Oh, and Tennessee ain't Miami Amy



.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

"............ (after all there are a lot of people who are just plain afraid of guns)."


And some of them even own guns.

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Sure you did

I see what you did there

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Retired Career Security Guard

I personally do not like open carry, except by peace officers displaying a badge. That is not the law here in KS. KS has constitutional carry, no permit required. If you can legally own a gun, you may carry it anyway you please. Though I do not like it, I will support it. It is the law. I spent 30 years enforcing it. I must say I have yet to see anyone open carrying and I hope that trend continues. It upsets citizens and wastes LE resources as the initial letter indicates. KS does still have a permit for traveling to states that have reciprocity agreements with KS.

Who cares if it upsets someone? Its their fault they don't like an inanimate object. LEO resources won't be wasted if the quit responding to calls in which the carrier has his firearm holstered

I open carry everyday it does not make me a target nor am I trying to show off that I have a gun. I am proud and show off the fact that I take steps to defend my family. I also believe in desensitizing folks to guns. I love the tactical advantage of a quicker unimpeded draw..I like the crime deterrent aspect.

That is the wrong reason to carry a firearm.

What is the "right" reason?

Plenty of right reasons. Being in people's faces about it for the sake of being in their face is not one of them. Alarming people in the name of "desensitizing" them does nothing to desensitize them, it just makes them even more opposed to guns and gun owners.

The problem is that it usually seems that the ONLY one "alarmed" is the crybully making the whiny, stompy foot complaint... who truth be told is just as likely to be "triggered" by my NRA ballcap.

The truth is that the anti-gun cult wants guns to be terrifying mystical totems of mass extinction. They want to DESTROY the "gun culture". Seeing guns every day works contrary to that... which is why they don't want them seen in contexts where the organs of state security are not involved.

Of course too, I'm amused by the dolts here who whine about open carry, when THEY were the ones bleating that there was no need for legal concealed carry because OPEN carry was legal.

I'm tired of crybullys and simply refuse to pander to their psycho-pathologies. As I've said previously, when it comes to social justice warriors, I'm into MACRO-aggressions.

I agree. In my mind, some of the open carry reminds me of the character with a large revolver strapped to his side .......... in the last season of "Justified". I wasn't impressed. I do CC, and my wife does also. And we'll keep it that way. We don't run around telling the public.

I have a tendency to read a lot, and have read thousands of opinions from the pro-gun & anti- gun crowd. I don't think it's the right time to be pushing firearms in peoples faces, just because it's a right to do so. Much of the public, is purely freaked out at this point.

Of course, being a forum, such as this is, there will be plenty of readers who totally disagree with my view. I can say without doubt, that many restaurant patrons will notice!

Just watch the last season of "Justified"...

I would no more make decisions about the 1st and 2nd Amendments based on fictional TV shows than I would draw conclusions about Mars from watching the second "Flash Gordon" serial.

Umm what relevance does a tv series have??? LOL

Simple, the character is trying to look like a tough guy. To me, he looks like a clown..

If some of you think open carry is going to desensitize the public, then go for it. I won't being calling law enforcement, as the OP did. I just don't believe it's the right time, to being flaunting it.

That is not why I carry a firearm. That's ONE of many reasons I OPEN carry

"I guess he didn't care about the many other customers who were offended and intimidated"
Did you take a poll, how did you ascertain that anybody other than you were overly concerned about this guy?
"(after all there are a lot of people who are just plain afraid of guns)".
Wow, I don't really know how to respond to that statement but I'll try - guns are legal, carrying guns openly in Tn is legal, if people don't like it, too bad. The right to carry is not based on your appearance.
"It is situations like this that make life more of a hassle for those of us who have CCW and or LEOSA permits, and make points for those people who would restrict our rights to properly carry weapons".
It always amazes me when someone thinks they can dictate what is "Proper Carry"
I open carry and conceal carry depending on my mood and or where I am going and I will continue to do so until that right is taken from me.

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Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda

The OP is perfect example of "pro gun" and "pro 2A" being two completely different things
People like "miles away" do more to harm the 2A than OC'ers ever will...he should be embarrassed and ashamed of himself

"slovenly", i thought it meant grubby, just from the context but i wasn't sure so i had to look it up. OP, if you don't like how someone is dressed, don't look and his money is as green as yours. if they kicked him out i think you should have been on the hook for the cost of his meal.

WOW! This is being said by a person who has anything to do with gun ownership? This sounds more like an anti gun person infiltrating our forum. I mean, how the hell do you call the police on someone OC? If they choose OC or CC it is none of your business, If he was a bad guy, he would not have had a gun on his side like that. These actions just push our gun ownership society back a few steps,, By a gun owner? WOW This is horrible and ridiculous.

Everything you say about this person is simply your own opinion, assumptions you make about him. One person's "slovenly" way of dressing is another man's way of dressing casually, although I'm not a big fan of sleeveless tees, myself. I'm not sure how you ascertain someone is walking around "with a sense of bravado." But what's wrong with bravado, anyway? Some people call it "self-confidence". Least the guy apparently wasn't slinking around with a conspiratorial leer on his face.

Nor can I figure out how you know other diners were "intimidated". Were other diners cringing in fear, looking at the guy with bug-eyed horror? Were they leaving..****nning in fear for the exits? Exhibiting signs of distress and fear like sweating and trembling, muttering incoherently among themselves, pointing at the guy maybe?

Seriously, how did you rationally come to these conclusions?

What I've always found interesting are the types who profess to be "frightened" of people with guns, yet get in their faces, and scream or curse at them, and in general act like they were raised by wolves. Their behavior refutes their words...

That's kind of offensive to those of us who actually were raised by wolves. Raised me as one of their own until I was kidnapped by a band of humans...

Then let's go with "raised by Heath Ledger's Joker"...