LEOSA: Qualifications and Covered Firearms

Dutchboy901 · #**151** 08-18-2018, 01:31 PM

I have found in my travels, that most LEO's and that includes myself, don't give a rats ***** about the laws & rules on the books so long as you have the proper ID and have no malicious intent. They will extend "professional courtesy" to you so long as you are not a jerk! But there's always that one cop who goes by every letter on the books, and will even arrest his own mother, if need be, regardless of who you are and hassle you.

And that's not to mention the prosecutor who's out to score one for his record!

These are the folks who scare me!

blues7 · #**152** 08-18-2018, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladder13

Tell em’ to keep going until they clear the Woodrow Wilson Bridge.

They can come visit me in NC if they're so inclined.

Muley Gil · #**153** 08-18-2018, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blues7

I actually did my research before going up and discovered that prior to leaving, but only wanted to bring the one gun, and one form of ammo, rather than having to switch mid trip.

My sister called yesterday and said she, and my mother as well, are planning a move to MD.

Sounds like going from a big frying pan to a smaller frying pan. I used to live in Maryland & still have a few family and friends there. One reason I keep my LEOSA current, since MD doesn't honor CCWs from other states. Of course, I haven't been back since I returned from the sandbox in '07.

Cal44 · #**154** 08-18-2018, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muley Gil

Sounds like going from a big frying pan to a smaller frying pan. I used to live in Maryland & still have a few family and friends there. One reason I keep my LEOSA current, since MD doesn't honor CCWs from other states. Of course, I haven't been back since I returned from the sandbox in '07.

I live in California, and often think of moving to another "free" state. But we have many relatives here, plus rental houses, and lots of friends.

So if we moved to Idaho or Arizona, I'd still have to come back to California frequently.

But if I moved to any other state, I'd have to surrender my Cali CCW license, and could never carry here again.

Living here, I can carry in all the states I like to visit -- plus here at home.

In Cali, you need to live in one of the counties that will issue carry licenses, though -- and most of the big coastal counties won't.

les.b · #**155** 10-23-2018, 08:08 PM

Just shot my annual LEOSA qualification course this afternoon! Shot through it with my old issue Glock 23, and then shot it again with my 640-1 Pro. I like to have a revolver and a semi on record. For once, it was absolutely perfect weather. Not hot, not cold, no wind, a great time, and a chance to see some of the old crew, plus a chance to spend some time with the active duty guys who run the shooting programs (one of my old jobs).

So I'm good to go for another year. Most of the states that I travel to recognize the WV CC permit, EXCEPT neighboring Maryland. I frequently travel through Md. To get to Pennsylvania. And also to get to my oldest sons home just outside of DC, he lives in Virginia. And then of course, there is DC..... So I still like to keep up the LEOSA.

Best Regards, Les

blues7 · #**156** 10-23-2018, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by les.b

So I'm good to go for another year. Most of the states that I travel to recognize the WV CC permit, EXCEPT neighboring Maryland. I frequently travel through Md. To get to Pennsylvania. And also to get to my oldest sons home just outside of DC, he lives in Virginia. And then of course, there is DC..... So I still like to keep up the LEOSA.

Best Regards, Les

Congrats, Les. My sister and brother in law...and my mother, are each moving to MD (Silver Springs area) soon.

So LEOSA will be required when I need to travel there in the future as they do not honor NC.

les.b · #**157** 10-23-2018, 09:15 PM

Just a sort of sign of the times, I guess, but the guys at my old department have switched from the .40 S&W model 23 Glocks that we were carrying when I retired to the Glock gen 5 9mm model 17s. I guess that when the FBI went from the .40 to the 9, that lots of departments all over the country followed suit. I'll bet Glock loves it, they get to sell everyone antoher gun..... I guess that the new Speer 147 gr "G2" Gold Dot with the hollow point filled in with polymer or whatever it is is the new "magic bullet"!!!

I'm not making fun of anyone, so please don't take offense, Ive read a lot of the literature, and looked at the rational, but I'm just a little but conservative when it comes to jumping on the latest bandwagon. I guess we'll see how things work out once we get a significant number of shootings with the new caliber/bullet.

Best Regards, Les

blues7 · #**158** 10-23-2018, 10:20 PM

I normally carry the 9mm Federal 147 gr HST round, (in standard pressure), the last year or two (in each of my Glocks).

oink · #**159** 10-23-2018, 11:53 PM

Yeah my old Dept went 9mm also. I agree the FBI move started a lot of departments changing. I think part of it is also due to all of the vets that have been entering law enforcement for a number of years now are all used to the 9mm and are the ones now running training, etc and helping to direct firearm acquisition decisions. The 45 ACP guys are all retiring.

Steve K · #**160** 10-26-2018, 11:27 AM

I have heard horror stories about Maryland and the LEOs not respecting LEOSA. A few of my retired friends place their carry pieces in the trunk while travelling through Maryland for fear of being charged with unlawful carry by the State Police. I don't know of any LEOs being arrested or hassled in Maryland, but I know several have been given motor vehicles citation. You may say the law is the law and if you are in violation you will get a traffic summons. With that in mind, the law is the law, LEOSA is the law and if you are in compliance with the law there is no violation. Does anyone have first hand knowledge of the MD LEOs not honoring LEOSA?

CH4 · #**161** 10-26-2018, 11:44 AM

Unfortunately, LEOSA is an affirmative defense. Still good to be cautious when traveling in territory where politics are known to influence a cop’s discretion.

blues7 · #**162** 10-26-2018, 12:10 PM

In my case, should a MD officer decide to arrest or pursue charges, my first call will be to FLEOA, (Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association), which provides (limited) legal coverage for active and retired officers in such circumstances and will provide and arrange representation if required.

I also carry a copy of the LEOSA statute and regs in the glove box and ensure that I have all licensing documents regarding firearms and legal representation in my credential case.

The Big D · #**163** 10-26-2018, 10:01 PM

Kindly cite time/place/LE organization when noting these clearly bogus made up stories of ‘I know a guy who is friends with a cousin of my pal’ who said he was victim of an illegal action by a LEO in the Great State of Maryland...or any other state.

If carrying pursuant to LEOSA and arrested I will personally post bail and pay all court costs for the defendant.

Oh, yeah, I am quite certain tall tales are being related.

Be safe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve K

I have heard horror stories about Maryland and the LEOs not respecting LEOSA. A few of my retired friends place their carry pieces in the trunk while travelling through Maryland for fear of being charged with unlawful carry by the State Police. I don't know of any LEOs being arrested or hassled in Maryland, but I know several have been given motor vehicles citation. You may say the law is the law and if you are in violation you will get a traffic summons. With that in mind, the law is the law, LEOSA is the law and if you are in compliance with the law there is no violation. Does anyone have first hand knowledge of the MD LEOs not honoring LEOSA?

snowman.45 · #**164** 10-26-2018, 10:53 PM

Well, I've finally got the wife to agree to escape the Peoples' Republic of California. I'm having a new house built in Buckeye, AZ, and can't wait for the end of February so I can get out of this Marxist experiment. I've told ya'll in the past about our Department requirement that we qualify with each gun we intend to carry. Looks like I'll soon be free from that, although I think that will soon be in the works in my Department. Anyway, on to the point, or I should say, question. What does the Arizona LEOSA qualification include? Also, who do you all recommend to qualify me when the time comes? Will I need to present anything else other than my valid Department ID card?

snowman.45 · #**165** 11-01-2018, 11:06 AM

Does anyone have an answer to my question? Seems someone here should know.

blues7 · #**166** 11-01-2018, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowman.45

Does anyone have an answer to my question? Seems someone here should know.

Looks like this would be a start, the section linked has info on LEOSA...and then you might reach out to the applicable agencies involved:

Concealed Weapons and Permits | Arizona Department of Public Safety

snowman.45 · #**167** 11-01-2018, 11:47 AM

Thanks, blues7. That pretty much listed what I expected and clearly outlines the requirements. I believe I read it before, but was hoping for someone in the Phoenix area who has completed the process and has a recommendation for who to qualify through. I'm not there yet, but will be in late February and I'll need to get my initial qualification and application done, unless I want to drive for 8 hours back to my agency annually. I don't really think I'm going to miss the PRC enough to make that something to look forward to. Thanks again, great information.

blues7 · #**168** 11-02-2018, 12:57 PM

@snowman.45

This member is in the Phoenix area and discusses LEOSA quals in the linked post.

You might want to send him a PM and get additional particulars from him.

ldaniel · #**169** 11-07-2018, 11:06 PM

Sorry I am late. U.S. Rep. Don Bacon, (who was re-elected) put forth a bill HR 6105. It allows "high Cap" Mags, National Park Carry, Carry on property open to public (Amtrak included), and allows Concealed Carry Instructors to be able to qualify retired LEOs. CCH Instructors will help me out. I went to my reserve office and asked about LEOSA, she said the Harris Co. Sheriff doesn't allow retired reserves to qualify for LEOSA. signed:stuck in TX.

snowman.45 · #**170** 11-07-2018, 11:32 PM

Thanks again for the information, blues7.

blues7 · #**171** 11-08-2018, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowman.45

Thanks again for the information, blues7.

My pleasure to try to help a brother out.

Dvan34 · #**172** 11-12-2018, 10:49 PM

It's interesting. As I read through these posts it is amazing how many different certifications are issued by various State, County or Local agencies, while the original federal LEOSA is non-specific. LEOSA basically state who in eligible to carry CCW under the provision and who is not and very little about the firearms, except machine or fully auto. I imagine that soon some of the more restrictive States will be imposing (trying) their own limiting regulations on LEOSA. (?)

The Big D · #**173** 11-13-2018, 12:00 AM

...by this statement. (in BOLD)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dvan34

... As I read through these posts it is amazing how many different certifications are issued by various State, County or Local agencies, while the original federal LEOSA is non-specific. LEOSA basically state who in eligible to carry CCW under the provision and who is not and very little about the firearms, except machine or fully auto. I imagine that soon some of the more restrictive States will be imposing (trying) their own limiting regulations on LEOSA. (?)

Please elaborate.

Be safe.

Spg007 · #**174** 12-02-2018, 09:32 PM

Thank god i moved out of NJ when i retired. The NJ AG just released his version of leosa.

blues7 · #**175** 12-02-2018, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spg007

Thank god i moved out of NJ when i retired. The NJ AG just released his version of leosa.

FLEOA is going to take this issue on. The following is from an email I received from FLEOA which I have been a member of since 1983:

Quote:

FLEOA Fights N.J.'s Illegal LEOSA Rules

The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) mandates that all active and retired law enforcement officers ("LEO's") be able to carry a concealed firearm anywhere in the United States subject to certain conditions, overriding most contrary state and local laws. See S. Rep. No. 108-29, at 4. The Act's purpose was two-fold - to protect active and retired officers and their families from "vindictive criminals," and to enable such officers to "respond immediately" to crimes spanning multiple jurisdictions. Id.; see also H.R. Rep. No. 108-560, at 4. The LEOSA provides that, "[n]otwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof," a "qualified law enforcement officer" or "qualified retired law enforcement officer" "may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce," so long as the individual also carries the requisite identification. 18 U.S.C. §§ 926B(a), 926C(a). The LEOSA preempts state firearm regulation. Contrary to the LEOSA, the New Jersey Attorney General in a recently issued "Guidance," reiterated its policy that requires a LEOSA qualified retired LEO, who permanently resides in New Jersey, to annually apply to the New Jersey State Superintendent of Police for a permit to carry a firearm, under onerous criteria, the issuance of which is wholly discretionary, not mandatory. See N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6(L), and Guidance recently issued by the New Jersey Attorney General.

New Jersey has historically attempted to find ways to limit LEOSA's application to New Jersey residents. This "Guidance" is directly contrary to LEOSA. Under LEOSA, states have a mandatory duty to recognize the right to carry that LEOSA establishes. Congress did not afford states the discretion to redefine either who are qualified law enforcement officers or who is eligible for the LEOSA right.

Attached is a letter which has been sent to the Attorney General of New Jersey noting FLEOA's objection to a recent "Guidance" issued by the Attorney General. We will await a reasonable period of time for a response. If necessary, Outside Counsel will take necessary and proper steps to remedy this objectionable conduct of New Jersey Public Officials.

Here's a link to the letter from counsel to the NJ AG:

https://www.fleoa.org/downloads/LEOS...r_to_NJ_AG.pdf

Spg007 · #**176** 12-02-2018, 10:14 PM

Nj is really unbelievable. The NJ AG said leosa ONLY applies to out of state officers who travel into NJ. A retired leo living in NJ is not covered by that and must apply for a RPO card (retired police officer)

JWM · #**177** 12-02-2018, 11:21 PM

Blues7: I just joined FLEOA a couple of months ago as a “retired” membership rate. Since retiring two years ago, I carry under LEOSA and selected NRA/retired LE/Lockton Risk insurance for any post shooting defense. Probably not the best, but at least something to fall back on should something happen. What do you think of FEDS insurance thru FLEOA ?

blues7 · #**178** 12-03-2018, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWM

Blues7: I just joined FLEOA a couple of months ago as a “retired” membership rate. Since retiring two years ago, I carry under LEOSA and selected NRA/retired LE/Lockton Risk insurance for any post shooting defense. Probably not the best, but at least something to fall back on should something happen. What do you think of FEDS insurance thru FLEOA ?

I maintain my retired membership status with FLEOA as well.

Had a FEDS LEOSA policy for a couple of years and even had occasion to speak to them for guidance on carrying in NYC and NJ last year. (Magazine related in NYC, ammo related in NJ.)

That said, this year I let the policy lapse and decided to go with CCW Safe. For less money than the policy with FEDS, I get both criminal and civil protection in higher dollar amounts.

LEOSA related issues which are not covered by CCW Safe would be handled via FLEOA's legal coverage per the membership agreement. (At least through the early stages of any criminal proceeding, or dismissal of charges.)

For the record, FEDS is a separate entity from FLEOA though they have a close relationship and actually share the same address for certain administrative functions (like mailings and such).