This is related to the original question, I guess. But I am not sure why you recommend 25 yard shooting. Unless I am up against a rifle at distance I don't imagine I will ever be in such a long distance gunfight. Not that I can't hit a B-27 target at 25 yards, I can, but who cares?

I can shoot nice, tight groups at normal gunfight distances and I'm confident I can hit a B27 target at 25 yards. Not to be argumentative but I wouldn't waste pistol ammo trying to hit targets at 100 yards with a 2" fighting revolver. Sure, it can be done, but you have to launch those rounds like you are almost aiming at the sky. I know from experience what it takes to hit a distance target with a 4 5/8 inch single action revolver (.45 Colt, 140 yards, one shot to show off, hit it, done and done) but you have to be rock steady and aim very HIGH
and it is really just for laughs and bragging rights. It's not a good plan for a gunfight.

it is definitely great for bragging rights, of course, but 75 feet is quite a ways away, never mind 300 feet or more, and it is unlikely in the extreme that I would ever find myself in such a situation. If I do then my antagonist is going to probably have a lofty perch, likely with good concealment, and a rifle, and I'm going to want concealment as much if not more than being able to exercise my 75 yard shooting prowess with a 2" combat revolver.

There is nothing wrong with having that skill and knowing what your combat revolver will do but to what purpose? There is virtually no chance that anyone will find themselves in that situation*. If you do then the interesting thing is that the antagonist is going to be pretty shocked at receiving return fire such that he might retreat or look for a different vantage point, thereby enabling your escape.

*The only time I can recall such a situation was last year's attack on Dallas police officers. The shooter did, indeed, have a lofty perch, and a rifle, and not a single police round hit him as I recall. He was killed with a remote robot bomb. All you can do with a handgun in that situation is send suppressing fire. Unless you are making a movie, of course.

Two or three other possible, similar scenarios:

*It is likely that the theater shooters in France in the not too distant past had 25 ore more yards between them and their victims but I do think they were in a balcony and, of course, no French person had a gun, anyway.

*The Colorado theater killer had a rifle, it was dark, and he was near the back of the theater. Same problems in re distance and the lack of guns in the audience.

My whole point being I won't be practicing combat shooting at 100 yards and my 25 yard shooting will be to verify my ability hit and then I'm done with that "skill".

I don't disagree that those are quality skills to have; I just view them as unnecessary in today's terrorized world. If you're going to stop an attack you will very likely be up close and personal.

Get caught out in the street, parking lot, or even a mall, and you may see the reasoning for being able to hit a target at 25 yards, especially if the shooter is armed with a rifle. The 100 yard shooting is not as important, but being able to suppress a shooter's target selection process could save lives. Here, a police officer was potentially saved by a citizen's long range handgun marksmanship: Citizen shoots trailer park gunman, saves Texas officer

If you don't think it is an important skill, don't practice it. Since I don't routinely carry a rifle or shotgun, I'm going to practice at long range as well.

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

Would you be standing still and returning fire or would you be moving? If you would be moving, do you practice shooting at targets 25 yards away while GOTX?

Considering the odds of needing to make long range shots with a pistol, I think very little training time should be devoted to it. If someone wants to practice it, so be it, but with training time and energy being limited, it's makes sense to me to allocate the majority of my time to working on skills that have a higher probability of being applicable in likely defense scenarios and keep the long range work to a minimum.

If there are cars in the parking lot, I'm going to cover and THEN return fire. If the only cover is a curb or planter, I'll go prone and return fire. No cover at all? I'll shoot on the move to get to cover, any cover. And, yes, I practice shooting on the move at least once a month, weather permitting.

Odds are funny things. The odds of a USAF pilot needing his/her parachute are very small, but don't expect one to leave it behind.

There are wide hallways in my building that are more than 25 yards long. There is an atrium where the elevator lobbies are located that is 12 stories high and more than 25 yards from end to end. If something happens and I'm not near the two locations where our AR carbines are stored, it''s going to be me against whatever threat there is. That's why I practice at long ranges with my handguns.


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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

If there's a guy with a rifle, and I'm in a parking lot with my CCW and some cover, I'm gonna GTFO if at all possible.

I'm a damn good shot most days, but that's a **** fight no matter how you cut it.

Among other things, they taught me in the Army:

1. Nobody can outrun a bullet.
2. The proper response to a near vehicular ambush is to drive over and through it, bringing to bear all available firepower with a maximum of force and violence, as soon as possible.

I like Speer's projectiles. That doesn't mean that I can't use Ford's as well.

Among things that are different:

(1) He's not necessarily shooting at me.

(2) This is not a vehicular ambush. This is a massacre in a parking lot. Two different things. My "all available firepower" is a single handgun magazine at a time. Even the smallest group of soldiers would be--what? Four guys with rifles, 30-round magazines each? Grenades, that sort of thing? In other words, parity in terms of equipment, which I wouldn't have in dealing with the armed-nutcase scenario.

One thing is not like the other. You can't even compare them in terms of ethics or duties.

Even though it is very unlikely to need to make a shot out side of 15 to 20 feet I do still practice at lengths much longer ..

I practice out to 100 feet on the outdoor range .. usually 1 mag at least .. I will lean against a pole or the side of my Jeep to steady myself as I would behind cover .. I might not hit the center of the bulls eye of the target but I'm on target 7 or 8 out of 10 shots or better .. always takes me 1 or 2 to get the distance right .. but I could easily hit my target or keep someone penned down if needed at that distance and further ..