I received this from a mailing list to which I belong. The italicized portion at the end is the commentary of the list owner. He’s right (and was copied on the email version I sent to friends so he can read my additional comments).

Just Because You've Got a Gun: The 24-year-old tugboat deckhand who was shot dead in Ocean View [Norfolk VA] on Tuesday was pointing a gun at his killer and trying to stop a robbery, his brother said. Pedro “Pete” Cain had been hanging out with some neighbors at his apartment building in the 9000 block of 1st View St. when a woman came up to the group and asked to use someone’s phone, 20-year-old Jonathan Cain said Friday. They told her they didn’t have one she could use. And Pete Cain, suspicious the woman might be casing the place, ran back to his apartment, got his handgun from a drawer, loaded a clip and returned to his neighbor’s. After coming back, a man wearing a bandana pointed a gun at them, Jonathan Cain said. So Pete Cain took aim at the would-be robber and ordered him to put his gun on the ground. The man seemed to comply, slowly lowering it. But then he jerked up and fired, hitting Pete Cain in the stomach, his younger brother said. Jonathan Cain said he called 911 and put pressure on his brother’s wound, telling him it was only little. But, Cain said Friday, the bullet had ricocheted inside him, hitting vital organs... (I seem to recall a line from a Clint Eastwood movie: “There's a time to shoot and a time to talk.” Action beats reaction. I don't know whether the late Pete Cain had the option of taking cover before challenging the apparent robber.)
Norfolk man was trying to stop a robbery, brother says. He pointed his gun, but his killer fired first. | Courts & Crime | pilotonline.com

More from Doug: Further, I note that while this was a civilian who was killed by a violent criminal, it is also an excellent example of why the lunatics and moonbats are incorrect when they assert cops are too quick to shoot. This was not a time to talk at all – the moment that Bandana Dude made his appearance and did ANYTHING consistent with being a violent criminal, he should have been shot, as many times as it took to stop his actions. This man died for the same reason cops die – not aggressive enough soon enough, and this particular example of the criminally feral could tell that the victim was not prepared to not be a victim.

Other lessons: 1) There is no excuse for being unarmed at any time or place if you can lawfully be armed. Cooper was right: one cannot make an appointment for an emergency. Remember, a pistol is what you carry when you have no specific reason to expect a problem. If you have such reason, and are not taking a long gun (rifle, or a shotgun with slugs), you are not smart at all.

2) Better answer – when this woman came up and acted as she did, and gave that impression, it was time to be elsewhere. Right now. Not in 5 seconds. NOW. With alacrity. Just as with the shooting, hesitancy is fatal, and portions of seconds kill. There was no need to be at that place – cops have to look for trouble, actively seeking bad people and imposing control on their actions. I don’t do that any more. When I did, I almost always took a long gun out if there was an indication of potential violence. Now – phooey. I can be elsewhere and avoid the mess.

In passing I also note that telling her to get away from you and your group, in no uncertain terms, was also an immediate action option (hurt her feelings, who cares?; she has no right not to be offended). It is also a test – anything other than immediate compliance is an indication of a serious problem, and you need to take action. Disrupt the OODA loop.

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NHI, 10-8.

Doug, I agree with everything you wrote. It was a needless death of a good guy. It all went really wrong when the happened: "So Pete Cain took aim at the would-be robber and ordered him to put his gun on the ground.". Bad decision. Better to shoot the bad guy. Better to go on trial for killing him than have him go on trial for killing you. In the Corps we had a simple rule. When faces with a hostile gun no warnings. Just kill the *******.

As the old saying goes - better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Always practice situational awareness and be smart out there.

Ocean View is a cesspool. I think the latest is that 4 people have been charged with murder in this incident.

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Why duck?? It's a 9mm!

Good thoughts, I agree.

Sad indeed. When he went home to get his gun, he should have stayed home.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

This.

If you can get away stay away

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Retired Career Security Guard

When you drive to the grocery store, there is no excuse for not wearing a NASCAR fireproof suit and helmet. After all, the odds of being in a car accident are dramatically higher than the odds of being the victim of a violent crime.

The crime rate in my suburb is so low that concealed carry here would be an act of stupidity/paranoia.

Umm...until it does happen in your quiet little suburb. Lawful concealed carry is never an act of stupidity. IMHO.

Yeah, that's what people were thinking in Brookhaven, Miss. Population 12,700 when this guy killed 8 people including a responding officer.
Mississippi shooting: 8 dead, including deputy; suspect says 'I ain't fit to live' | Fox News

Or Cottonwood Heights, Utah. Population 34,166 when this guy was captured by an alert police officer. Suspect in Utah armed robbery spree caught after cop spots him during doughnut stop | Fox News

More has happened in "sleepy" little towns than most people realize.

Go armed. Refuse to be a victim. The world doesn't need any more dead hero's.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

I repeat this ancient wisdom every few weeks. In order of importance, what separates the winners from the losers is mindset, judgment, tactics, marksmanship and firearm. The victim did not have the mindset to immediately do what was necessary, resulting in faulty judgment and poor tactics, costing him his life. This was a tragedy. He could have had the best handgun and ammo imaginable, one "approved" by most of the forum members. Yet, the handgun never entered the equation because he died before getting a chance to use it.

Sad Story.
Still the lesson here is that if your going to pull a gun ( or any weapon), you better be 100% ready to use it without hesitation. Otherwise you've just escalated the conflict to a level you ( and those around you) aren't able to deal with.

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Dave

I was told as long as a person is just talking he probably isn't about to do anything. A BG with a gun is no time to try talking to him. Especially if you have a gun pointed at the BG. The BG should only hear your gun going bang not shooting off your mouth.

I totally agree with when he went home and called 911 he should have stayed right there. He didn't get to learn that lesson till it was to late. I was told when you see trouble get your feet pounding ground to get out of there if possible.

This article is perfect example of people with guns thinking the gun is there protection. A gun is only your safety net if you can take the BG out with it. A wounded or surrendering BG is still a threat to your life just like this scenario showed.

A sad story indeed.

It is symbolic of the many people who buy a handgun and spend little time (if any) practicing with it...
even less time learning how and when to employ it. In this case, the result is we lose one "good" person, and are left with a thug that we could do without.

Hopefully, someone else who thinks like Pete learns from this story and avoids a similar situation in their future.

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Stay protected my friends.

I was taught at my concealed carry class that pulling your gun is the absolute LAST resort. Once pulled you better use it. No ifs, ends or butts. Good guy made so many mistakes here. Just call 911 and let the experts deal with it.

Obviously, a case of a young and inexperienced person trying to help the situation. He undoubtedly meant well but lacked the tactical savvy that the situation required.

I suspect he rejoined the confrontation out of concern for his friends. Sad situation, hope the BG gets max sentence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hubris is not an attractive trait.

Unless of course you happened to be one of the victims

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Retired Career Security Guard

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Uh, WHAT? First off, preparation is not paranoia. Second, I can't imagine any reason to consider the lawful carrying of a sidearm to be stupidity. Third, your comparison is flawed - the odds of your car burning in a crash are small at most - but as for crashes, I always wear a seatbelt.

Your complacency is frightening, and your lack of analysis disconcerting.

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NHI, 10-8.

Until it isn't. There hadn't been a murder in my community in living memory until 3 years ago when there were two in quick succession, with one perpetrator taking refuge under my deck. I'd rather be diagnosed as paranoid by a non-psychiatrist than autopsied by a trained pathologist.

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I need ammo, not a ride.

That would make a great sig line.

I just mowed my suburban lawn with a pistol in my pocket. Not out of fear, but because I can . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Feel free to use it. My current line has great personal significance and I think I'll keep it.

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I need ammo, not a ride.

Indeed; go home and call 911.

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K & N S&W revolvers

Why would you point a gun at someone if you weren't ready to press the trigger?

Are you serious?

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Freedom isn't free.

Boy, there is more than one sad lesson in this thread....

yeah, but according to the article the OP linked, second degree?! WT_ is that?! That's seriously wrong. The shooter needs to be taken out to a field and strung up for the crows.

JohnSW, Let me ask you a dumb question: Do you wear a seat belt when you drive to the grocery store?

If someone says that carrying a gun makes them feel stupid and paranoid I'm inclined to believe them.

I feel fortunate to not suffer such anxieties. I just drop an LCP in my pants pocket in the morning and go about my day.

Violent crime in the little town I live in is almost non existent. But, spun out meth heads don't know or care about that. I am sure there are some of those around here and I know that the highway connects us to the rest of the world and can be used by those who might think this is a good place to rob or just plain old have a melt down.

How many times have you heard or read the words, I didn't think it would/could happen here? No one gets up thinking I will need a gun today. I really really doubt I will need a gun today, but, it would really, really, really suck to need one and not have it.

At one time the president wasn't paranoid about riding in an open limousine.

The line is, "If you're going to talk, talk; if you're going to shoot, shoot." It from the movie The Good, The Bad and The Ugly and is delivered by Eli Wallach playing Tuco.

Most people aren't ready to press the trigger.

In the early days of World War II, the Army tried to get a handle on why it wasn't getting more effect from rifle fire. They took an infantry unit and put a tiny amount of colored grease in each barrel. After the action, they could tell whether the rifle had been fired by simply running a patch down the barrel. Only about half the rifles had even been fired. Other trials showed that among the half that did fire, about half of them shot up into the air thinking if they weren't trying to kill anyone, nobody would try to kill them. Bottom line is that only one in four trained soliders in combat were firing their rifles to effect.

The study was repeated in Korea and Vietnam with similar results.

This account does not make it clear whether the man with the bandana already had the gun out when Pete arrived back at his neighbors. The account also doesn't mention whether or not Pete or somebody else called the police when they became suspicious of criminal activity.

So, assuming that the account's silence means the police were not called, let's look at what happened:

• Pete was with friends on premesis owned by a neighbor.
• A woman apporaches the group.
• Somehow by her actions, the woman makes Pete think some criminal activity is brewing.
• Pete leaves the scene and returns to his home/office and retrieves a gun.
• Pete does not call the police.
• Pete, now armed, returns to the neighbor's.
• A man wearing a bandana is present.
• The man in the bandana may or may not have already produced a gun.
• At some point, the man in the bandana does produce a gun.
• Pete produces his gun and orders the man in the bandana to put his gun down.

Now we all know what happened next from the account, but the "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six" crowd thinks Pete at this point should have shot the man in the bandana. But, had that happened, let's look at how it gets presented in court:

• Pete and friends are unarmed
• Woman approaches
• Pete becomes suspicious of criminal activity
• Pete leaves and retreives a gun
• Pete does not call police
• Pete returns to the neighbor
• The man in the banana produces a gun
• Pete shoots the man in the bandana.

By suspecting criminal activity, leaving the vicinity, not calling the police, arming himself, returning to the scene and then shooting first, Pete will be portrayed as having escalated the conflict.

As Doug M pointed out, once you think something suspicious is going on, leave the area and once you do, don't return.

As far back as the civil war, muskets were retrieved at Gettysburg with as many as 10 balls in them. Soldiers were pretending to shoot...and reloading on top of the last round.

People discover that firing at another human being is easier said than done.

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Stay protected my friends.

The advice from an old Texas Highway Patrolman, "some people just need killing and the state of Texas has given you that job. The state will even provide the ammo." Advice from 1959 and still valid.

I heartily agree.

My thought is that there are also some details that were not mentioned in the article. I won't speculate much further as I certainly wasn't there. In general, however, defending ones self against predators requires the judicious utilization of common sense and situational awareness in avoiding most encounters to begin with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I believe this is a good assessment.

If all we had known was that a bad guy had a gun and the good guy gave orders rather than shooting, he should have shot.

However, going to get a gun and then returning to the scene of potential danger is just not wise. Further, it could be seen as intent to do harm. Alas, in this case Pete will not face a jury.

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Freedom isn't free.

WTH??? Did you mean to say this? Their may be many that live in your area that do carry and I can understand why you wont but think before you type bro.