CCW People are the most law abiding

[Rastoff]

I don't know if y'all have seen this report, but it's interesting.

One thing it shows is that as the murder rate has declined, the number of carry permits has risen. I'm not done with the paper and I don't know if they're trying to show a direct correlation, but it is an interesting statistic.

[les.b]

Thanks, Rastoff, for providing this interesting study for us. I just started reading it, and will try to finish it when I can. John Lott is a great researcher, and his work is important in a world filled with "fake news". Refreshing to see an academic study that is based on facts!!

Best Regards, Les

[TomkinsSP]

My father and father-in-law were pilots in WW2. I was a cop in a very big city. I have this theory that draws from what I learned second hand and what I observed first hand.

The death spiral: I am told that young pilots who do not yet have an instinctual awareness of the multiple intercecting forces on an airplane in flight frequently get themselves into an often fatal error loop. The airplane stalls asymetrically and starts to spin, but the noob makes the opposite control response, the spin gets worse not better, noob believing his response to have been correct uses more force, spin tightens and increases in speed, noob pushes even harder, and eventually hits terra firma.

Consider the proposition that in a city, you have crime. If the erroneous assumption is that guns (and not that criminals with guns, knives, baseball bats, fountain pens) cause crime a logical but erroneous step is to try to limit possession of guns.

But like the young pilot in the above example, the wrong rudder pedal is being pushed. Law abiding citizens become more vunerable as crime increases instead of decreasing. Gun laws become more restrictive, unless you live in a literal police state crime increases, guns are virtually banned, creating more crime than ever.

To the extent the wrong 'solution' is effective the problem is intensified. To the degree the wrong 'solution' is enforced the problem is intensified.

Just my $0.02...

[richardw]

That is a very enlightening report. I have read about half of it so far, and I will have to reread that material because it has so much good data that it has to be ingested slowly. Thanks for posting it.

The one thing that impressed me most from what I have read so far is that the constutional carry states have a high rate of carriers but less crime than the most restrictive states.

[Whitwabit]

I read a statistical report a year or so ago that had the number in percent of police officers that are charged and convicted of a crime and Conceal Carry License holders charged and convicted of crimes at a rate about half the amount the officers did !!!

We are a very law abiding group that are scrutinized continually for little to no reason by a group of people that commit more crimes then us !!

[sgtsandman]

The ones who got the permit/license(s), took the time and effort to follow the law, fill out the paperwork, and take any instruction that may be required on top of the usual background checks to own a firearm.

Of course they are more law abiding. They also will take care to not lose that permit or license, so have even more motivation not to break the law than the average Joe.


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[dubtap21]

Thanks for posting this.

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[Whitwabit]

Here is the same report BUT from July 9th 2014

Can check how CC has grown in the states that effect you !!

http://www.crimeresearch.org/wp-cont...ted-States.pdf

[ContinentalOp]

Thanks for the reports, Rastoff and Whitwabit. I've seen that claim before but haven't seen the actual studies.

[TomkinsSP]

Originally Posted by richardw

The one thing that impressed me most from what I have read so far is that the constutional carry states have a high rate of carriers but less crime than the most restrictive states.

Using the scientific method, if restrictions on legal gun ownersip or carriage decreased crime, the most restrictive places would have the least crime when adjusted or grouped for population differences.

The opposite, however, seems to be true...

[TomkinsSP]

Deleted duplicate posting.

[shouldazagged]

Shall-issue concealed carry licensure became the law in Kentucky twenty years ago. At that time our once-great daily newspaper began beating the drums about what would surely be the dire consequences. Innocent bystanders slaughtered, blood in the scuppers, and all that.

A year or so after CC licenses began to be issued, the paper did a follow-up study to evaluate the effects. I was pleasantly surprised when they were honest and reported that legal carriers had been less likely than the general population to be arrested on any charge, violent or non-violent. Which of course only stood to reason.

Our murder and shooting-and-wounding rates have gone up sharply recently, a matter of concern. But this has overwhelmingly been due to gang warfare. Care to guess what percentage of those upstanding lads are licensed to carry concealed?

[Whitwabit]

Originally Posted by shouldazagged

Shall-issue concealed carry licensure became the law in Kentucky twenty years ago. At that time our once-great daily newspaper began beating the drums about what would surely be the dire consequences. Innocent bystanders slaughtered, blood in the scuppers, and all that.

A year or so after CC licenses began to be issued, the paper did a follow-up study to evaluate the effects. I was pleasantly surprised when they were honest and reported that legal carriers had been less likely than the general population to be arrested on any charge, violent or non-violent. Which of course only stood to reason.

Our murder and shooting-and-wounding rates have gone up sharply recently, a matter of concern. But this has overwhelmingly been due to gang warfare. Care to guess what percentage of those upstanding lads are licensed to carry concealed?

In 2014 when the court made the politicians of Illinois pass a Conceal Carry Law we got the same from the anti gun groups and out of state politicians that there would be blood running in the streets and there would be shoot outs between the people in neighborhoods .. and all the other BS they spew ..

None of which has ever came about anywhere they have said it would !! And it didn't happen here in Illinois either !!!!

If anything Perps now realize who they attempt to rob could well be carrying and that they could be shot and killed !! In the tri county area I live in in central Illinois between 17 and 18 percent of the people 21 and older have conceal carry permits .. and is almost equal between men and women

[otasan56]

No felony convictions here in VT.

[two-bit cowboy]

Thanks for posting this. Interesting and informative.

I have one nit to pick regarding a rather broad-brush inference or assumption regarding why residents in Constitutional Carry states obtain/maintain concealed carry permits (concealed firearm permit in Wyo.). The report suggests the only reason we maintain a permit is to carry concealed in states with which we have reciprocity agreements. Everyone I know who has a Wyoming CFP agrees that's one consideration; a far more important one, however, is to save the poor slug at the lgs from having to complete the background check when we make a purchase.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading the demographic and statistical presentation of who's getting newly issued permits. How does that saying go? "An armed society is a polite society."

[otasan56]

Originally Posted by two-bit cowboy

Thanks for posting this. Interesting and informative.

I have one nit to pick regarding a rather broad-brush inference or assumption regarding why residents in Constitutional Carry states obtain/maintain concealed carry permits (concealed firearm permit in Wyo.). The report suggests the only reason we maintain a permit is to carry concealed in states with which we have reciprocity agreements. Everyone I know who has a Wyoming CFP agrees that's one consideration; a far more important one, however, is to save the poor slug at the lgs from having to complete the background check when we make a purchase.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading the demographic and statistical presentation of who's getting newly issued permits. How does that saying go? "An armed society is a polite society."

An armed society is a polite society. Not many muggings here in Vermont, a Constitutional Carry state.

[ContinentalOp]

Originally Posted by two-bit cowboy

Everyone I know who has a Wyoming CFP agrees that's one consideration; a far more important one, however, is to save the poor slug at the lgs from having to complete the background check when we make a purchase.

This is not the case in every state.

[otasan56]

Originally Posted by ContinentalOp

This is not the case in every state.

Vermont, even though it voted for HRC, is a somewhat conservative state.