Another gun pointing home owner charged

[johngross]

And he's the husband of the Los Angeles District attorney, from an incident back on March 2, 2020.

Husband of L.A. County DA Jackie Lacey charged with assault after waving gun at protesters | KTLA


Video of the incident here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h9h2BSXomQ

[moosedog]

If he would have kept the gun pointed down instead of at the people, there would be no problem. You have to be in fear of your life before you can legally point it at the person.
Of course politics will also play a big part in the way this is handled.

[LoboGunLeather]

My goodness, a mob gathers on the porch and front yard of a public official for the specific purpose of provoking an incident, now they are upset about the results.

Unfortunately, in this case the DA's husband gave these "peaceful protestors" exactly what they wanted to achieve.

Fortunately, the gentleman did not give them any martyrs or poster boys for their propaganda machines to exploit.

[flagman1776]

The strategy of opening the door, in the presence of trespassers is really poorly thought out. He pointed a gun at them, finger on the trigger and said he would shoot them. Sounds like assault to me.

Nothing good will come from opening the door.

Property should have been posted. Put a sign in the window that says "NO COMMENT".

Massad Ayoob "Don't Answer The Door!!!" - YouTube

[tops]

People are trespassing on your porch and yard and you point a gun at them and you are the criminal. It's my opinion that there is a lot wrong with this situation and some laws need too be changed. Larry

[biku324]

But the laws are what they are. Most are the same as they've been for decades, if not generations.

[6518John]

I turn on the sprinklers when I have unwanted “guests” ringing the doorbell. You get soaked making a run for it!

[Ziggy2525]

Originally Posted by 6518John

I turn on the sprinklers when I have unwanted “guests” ringing the doorbell. You get soaked making a run for it!

Good plan. In California (where the OP happened) it would probably get you arrested for some type of environmental crime.

[Rustyt1953]

[Echo40]

As stupid as this guy obviously was for opening the door, pointing his firearm at protesters, and threatening to shoot them was, these protesters really get way too much leeway here.

Honestly, this is a public disturbance at best, trespassing and harassment at worst and it shouldn't be allowed. Is there a way to stop it peacefully, I don't know, but exactly how far is this sort of thing allowed to go before the police should step in?

I'm really glad that I don't live particularly close to the city because if a bunch of -- Man, at times like these is it difficult to refrain from using curse words -- "peaceful protesters" were making a nuisance of themselves in my neighborhood, much less out on my front lawn, then I would be extremely aggravated by the situation.

Now obviously, I wouldn't behave aggressively towards them, I'd probably just do my absolute best to ignore them in hopes that they'd go away, but man, would that be annoying.

[Oracle]

He certainly stepped right into the pile of dung they laid with both feet, face palm.

Good thing his wife is an attorney.

[Drm50]

Stricter laws on protesters need passed. To me protesting stops the minute another’s rights are violated. These so called protesters are getting away with the same things that would get a cop fired. Citizens have the right to safety. Especially in their homes. Who wants to trust their safety to a mob?I question the mental capacity of anyone involved in these mobs. These mobs contain college professors that are willing to cause harm to others because of nothing more than opinion on an issue. These people need some “ higher education”, but until we have laws we are stuck. You would think in these political situations if law can’t respond to protect home owner that common sense would be used in charging.

[KSDeputy]

My wife awakened me at 0130 and said there was a puke ringing our doorbell. Puke=criminal, or ne'er do well. I met him at the door, opened it with a .45 in my hand. He sobered up quickly and said "oh God please don't shoot me". He showed signs of being drunk, and I could smell it on his breath. We live in the middle of 8.6 acres, posted, and surrounded by barb wire. I said what do you want, he said his car was in the ditch and he needed help. I said I know who to call to help you, and shut the door. I called the sheriff's office. We watched him climb over the gate and run to the house across the road, and woke them up. The sheriff arrived and arrested him. I had to write a report to get him booked, which I did. I never heard any more about it.

[Ziggy2525]

Originally Posted by Drm50

Stricter laws on protesters need passed. To me protesting stops the minute another’s rights are violated. These so called protesters are getting away with the same things that would get a cop fired. Citizens have the right to safety. Especially in their homes. Who wants to trust their safety to a mob?I question the mental capacity of anyone involved in these mobs. These mobs contain college professors that are willing to cause harm to others because of nothing more than opinion on an issue. These people need some “ higher education”, but until we have laws we are stuck. You would think in these political situations if law can’t respond to protect home owner that common sense would be used in charging.

I think there are plenty of laws already. We just need political leadership that's willing to enforce them.

[rwsmith]

Crowds are trying to goad people into making a misstep, then there is hell to pay. Don't fall for it. Keep your head.

[Borderboss]

As soon as protesters are on your property, they are trespassing, so call the cops and let them do their job. If they impact the home in any way, report to the cops that trespassers are trying to break into your home. Get the cops working on it.

[Jon651]

Unfortunately the problem with gun laws today is that the line between what you could do and what you should do has become very blurry. When does "open carry" cross over into "reckless display"? When does "stand your ground" cross over into "assault with a deadly weapon"? It's not black or white (no pun intended).

Unfortunately no law, rule or regulation can cover all possibilities or situations (nor would you want it to try), and it is incidents like this one that show us how many folks just can't tell that they've stepped over the line when they are under stress.

Since everybody else gets their day (and their say) in court then I'm going to reserve judgment on this guy until he gets his day as well.

[Doug M.]

This is another political charging similar to the St. Louis couple, by an attorney should not have a law license or be in a position to misuse his authority in that fashion. Sadly, the charging attorney is the AG of California, and he hates decent people, guns, etc. He is much like the AG here, who I loathe.

[johngalt]

Originally Posted by Borderboss

As soon as protesters are on your property, they are trespassing, so call the cops and let them do their job. If they impact the home in any way, report to the cops that trespassers are trying to break into your home. Get the cops working on it.

Unfortunately the police have been told to stand down in many cities. Looting and rioting has been going on unchecked in Chicago since the beginning of the summer. What do you do when your complaints are ignored because the police are prohibited from enforcing the law?

[Richard Simmons]

As I understand it, at least here in VA unless your property is posted or an individual has been informed verbally or in writing, simply being on someone’s property without permission is not “trespassing”.

[Fastbolt]

Messy situation.

Looking at the video, at the 1 minute mark we see a residential property that lacks a fence and a gate, locked or otherwise. The entrance to the front porch isn't gated, either. What's to stop someone, anyone, from walking up to the front door of the property that isn't posted?

The sidewalk (where the protesters in that part of the video are gathered) isn't private property. There are circumstances where being in the open driveway, and even standing on the open front porch, can be considered being in Public, even though it's private property.

This isn't a rural area. It's a residential area in a major city. Nothing in the article or video indicates the protesters had attempted to force their way into the residence, let alone in a manner that could be described as causing someone in the house to feel a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household.

Consider this Penal Code section of CA law, 198.5:
"Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant or substantial physical injury."
Law section.

Instead, the homeowner opened the front door to someone (apparently 3 someones) who didn't appear to be offering violence, who said "Good morning" to the homeowner, and the homeowner pointed a gun at them and threatened to shoot them.

If the homeowner hadn't opened the door to confront the 3 protesters, and had called the police to enforce a criminal trespass if the 3 people didn't leave once told to leave (since no signs were posted on the unfenced, ungated front of the property)? Probably wouldn't be in this mess.

And if the protesters had attempted to forcibly enter the residence? Different situation.

Here's a link to the charging document. It appears the state AG is charging the suspect with 3 counts (3 victims) under the misdemeanor nature of 245(a)(2) of the Penal Code, instead of felony counts.

https://www.politico.com/states/f/?i...f-bbff4cde0000



Short version:
CHAPTER 9. Assault and Battery [240 - 248] ( Chapter 9 enacted 1872. )


245.

(a) ...

(2) Any person who commits an assault upon the person of another with a firearm shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years, or in a county jail for not less than six months and not exceeding one year, or by both a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000) and imprisonment.

Full body of PC section, if anyone's interested:
Law section

One article states the suspect's wife (DA) was upstairs when her husband opened the front door and confronted (threatened) the 3 protesters. Did she know he'd gotten his gun and was going downstairs to confront the protesters on their front porch? Dunno. I'd not be surprised if she'd have advised him against his planned action if she had known what he was going to do, and had instead called the police to handle it.

Folks might wish to consider the information in the previously linked video by Mas.

Now, other folks may wish to express how their resident state may have statutory laws that treat this sort of situation differently, except this happened in the state where this homeowner lives, and his wife is the elected District Attorney of the largest city in the state.

Also, this protester presence and situation has apparently been ongoing for a quite a while, and the protesters have repeatedly been attempting to speak with the DA. It's not like the DA and her husband haven't had plenty of time to consider their response to this sort of situation.

This is going to be a messy and likely difficult legal situation for the (now) suspect, as well as his wife, the DA facing an election. It could've been avoided.

[Echo40]

I dunno about that, but I will say this much... There are social movements which seem to exist solely for the purpose of reaopening old wounds and increasing racial sensitivity going on in the background in order to provoke violence and promote social unrest.

Honestly, it ought to be abundantly clear to anyone with good intentions that these sorts of things don't help anyone and always just end up causing trouble, so I don't buy for a single minute that the organizations behind these protests don't mean any harm when they do things like constantly call attention to isolated incidents of police brutality, label them as racially motivated hate crimes, get everyone all riled up, then promote protests which they have to know will inevitably get violent at some point since they're bound to get out of hand with so many angry folks packed tightly together, often making a public nuisance in the progress, then police will be called in who have been painted as bigoted oppressors and victimizers.
Yeah, that's totally not an obvious recipe for disaster, especially when it has gone badly several times over.

And once again, it all goes back to what I've been saying all along about failure to accept personal responsibility causing trouble. If everyone would only accept personal responsibility for their actions and the consequences they bring, then these things wouldn't happen. Because we wouldn't have entire legions of easily manipulated people who refuse to accept such responsibility and thus are all too happy to accept a mindset that enables them to relinquish all responsibility such as assuming the identity of a born victim, oppressed and downtrodden with absolutely no hope of ever succeeding, so why bother trying? It's the perfect excuse to do whatever you want, whenever you want, and when your life never improves, you don't have to blame yourself because the entire world would have banded together to block you at every turn.

Granted, it's not everone's fault who thinks that way, namely young people who were raised in an environment that promotes that way of thinking, and ostracizes anyone who refuses to accept it. It happens all over the world and can happen to anyone growing up, (regardless of race, gender, or creed) but there comes an age when people ought to start thinking for themselves, and the conscious decision to either reject or accept that way of thinking is what separates the adults from the perpetual children who refuse to accept personal responsibility.

I myself fell prey to that way of thinking in my youth, but eventually I rejected it. It most certainly has left its mark on me, and made it hard to persevere at times, nearly falling back into that old defeatist attitude whenever I failed, but then I remember a decision that I made long ago, to be the survivor who never gives up rather than the victim who accepted absolute defeat, never to try again. No one should have to live like that, and shame on those who promote that attitude because they have become the very monster they claim to stand against, the oppressive force that holds them back. It's not "the man" or some majority ethnic group or whatever scapegoat they fancy, not in this great country at least, and it makes me mad to think of all the brave patriots who fought for freedom only to be dishonored by disingenuous rhetoric and constant reminders of a bygone era of oppression.

People can change and society will endure regardless, but in order for order to prevail over chaos, people both individually and collectively make the conscious decision to believe that it is possible for order to prevail and accept that their actions have consequences rather than fall into the trap of adopting a nihilistic outlook on the world.

In short, responsibility is the root of order, nihilism is the root of chaos. So changing the world, for better or worse, ultimately comes down to a simple decision. Either you choose to believe that your actions have consequences and assume full responsibility for any negativity which comes from said actions or you choose to believe that nothing you do actually matters and ultimately end up participating in harmful/chaotic activities, then when everything turns out horrible as a result, you blame it all on something else or pretend that it was inevitable regardless of the path you have chosen, the hallmark of a born loser and perpetual failure.

[Mrnurse]

Nov 3 its going to get a LOT LOT Worse Folks. Keep a Weapon secured unless its life and death, in your car, at home, street, If your about to be attacked to a point its life threatening start shooting...Period, no wound shot, no threats, Draw and shoot if Your Life is in Jeopardy. I hate How our nation is going but its all been planned out long ago, Yes folks, the Overthrow of America. Im not a Political Zealot, Not a Big Trump supporter, am rather disappointed with the R party, I am More Mild Moderate, but things are changing folks ....to the not so Good.

[colt_saa]

If you come onto my porch at 5:30 in the morning . . . knocking and ringing my bell, you will be met by an armed homeowner

My speech to the my Wife's Stalkers would have been different than the video I just saw and my firearm would not yet be pointed at anybody in particular

[Borderboss]

Originally Posted by johngalt

Unfortunately the police have been told to stand down in many cities. Looting and rioting has been going on unchecked in Chicago since the beginning of the summer. What do you do when your complaints are ignored because the police are prohibited from enforcing the law?

You can open the door with the gun present but not pointed, while having 911 on the phone that you're detaining the trespassers until the police get there. Keep your story in front of the police.

However, I hear what you're saying. That's why many of is are getting out of crazy places like that. I think it's ironic that this guy's wife is part of the reason that the crazy mob exists that attacked their home. He should have sent her outside to talk to them.

[Echo40]

Originally Posted by colt_saa

If you come onto my porch at 5:30 in the morning . . . knocking and ringing my bell, you will be met by an armed homeowner

My speech to the my Wife's Stalkers would have been different than the video I just saw and my firearm would not yet be pointed at anybody in particular

That reminds me of two things which actually happened to my brother. One time he had some bald young white kid come up onto the porch and attempt to turn the doorknob and walk right inside, but the door was locked, so he then started acting like he was going to break the window, at which point he sees my brother through the window holding a little itty bitty Taurus TCP-738 and takes off running. Apparently he had seen some young folks casing the neighborhood for over a week too. I was actually present for this one, so I saw it with my own eyes.

Another time he was making lunch and someone suspicious came pounding aggressively on the door, so my brother answered the door with his Taurus Judge in hand, to which the guy immediately threw his hands up in the air and shouted; "I'M FRIENDLY! I'M FRIENDLY!" So my brother replied; "Then this isn't for you." After that the guy explained that he was just looking for a pet that had run off in the area and was only pounding at the door because he was panicking. The story seems to have been the truth as well, because the neighbors confirmed that he had come knocking at their doors asking if they had seen his pet, so if he were looking to do something, then he probably would have attacked one of the elderly neighbors who didn't answer the door armed with a hand cannon.

[SMSgt]

Originally Posted by biku324

But the laws are what they are. Most are the same as they've been for decades, if not generations.

Sounds a little too much like a law that says confiscate all ARs and followed with "I'm just following orders."

[S&W629]

I have seen the vid of him waving the gun around.....was that one of those expensive...Hi-Points???

[Mule Packer]

Hmmm. This is one of those situations where you're darned if you do and darned if you don't. As was alluded to earlier, those "peaceful protestors" were baiting that guy. They wanted him to defend his property, hoping he'd make the faux pas of bringing a gun to the party. Now, let's just assume that he hadn't done what he did. Let's just assume he stayed in the house. It's a pretty good bet they not only would've come up on his porch, but they would've also either started pounding on the door or possibly thrown something through the window, provoking him to come out and confront them. Then when he came out waving the gun, they would've had him again.

Like I said, one of those situations where you're darned if you do and darned if you don't. Can't win either way. You can bet your bobsled that the whole thing was planned to the "t."

[Jon651]

Of all the points folks have made here on this topic, the one I have trouble getting behind is to blame the protesters because "they are young", or something similar. While the average age of the protesters we see on the videos may be younger than the average age of the people on this forum, all of them were raised - and taught - by somebody older than they were. It's difficult to lay blame on these people when we've been teaching them to "question authority" and "think for themselves" all their lives - and then they do.

It seems that lessons like "respect authority" and "pay attention to those with experience and knowledge" that we would like them to follow haven't held much sway regardless of age or circumstances.

[pasote]

Originally Posted by 6518John

I turn on the sprinklers when I have unwanted “guests” ringing the doorbell. You get soaked making a run for it!

Good Idea!

[Jon651]

Originally Posted by 6518John

I turn on the sprinklers when I have unwanted “guests” ringing the doorbell. You get soaked making a run for it!

We don't have sprinklers. I just let the fire ants have at them!

[steelslaver]

Get off my lawn, porch property. Waving the gun around with his trigger on the trigger might not have been his best move, especially living where he does. But, around here I imagine the sheriff would tell the complainant they should probably stay off the guys porch.

My property is actually posted. Thanks to a nit wit, that I didn't want around no more and he wouldn't take the very well explained "Stay off my place." I didn't wave a gun around, I did put up signs, typed out a complaint and notice, called the local law and had them deliver the message a second time.

[Echo40]

Originally Posted by Jon651

Of all the points folks have made here on this topic, the one I have trouble getting behind is to blame the protesters because "they are young", or something similar. While the average age of the protesters we see on the videos may be younger than the average age of the people on this forum, all of them were raised - and taught - by somebody older than they were. It's difficult to lay blame on these people when we've been teaching them to "question authority" and "think for themselves" all their lives - and then they do.

It seems that lessons like "respect authority" and "pay attention to those with experience and knowledge" that we would like them to follow haven't held much sway regardless of age or circumstances.

If you are referring at all to my post, then you misunderstood what I was saying, although I don't blame you as I have a tendency to ramble on and go off on tangents which makes it difficult to follow what I'm saying at times, but I digress... I wasn't saying that all of the folks who participate in these protests are misguided youths, merely giving the benefit of the doubt to those who are young who may be involved.

Furthermore, at times when I refer to people as "children" or something to that effect, I'm using it as a metaphor for their nihilistic belief that their actions are largely inconsequential because such beliefs are like that of a child who attempts to redirect any blame for their actions elsewhere in order to avoid punishment.
In addition, the persecution complex often shared by many of the folks who participate in these sorts of protests is also characteristic of adolescents, (namely teenagers) who in yet another attempt to escape responsibility choose to believe that when they are scolded or punished for their misbehavior that they are being treated unfairly and are deserving of more privileges, as if being treated as an adult would make their disobedience somehow acceptable because in their eyes adults can do whatever they want, failing to recognize the responsibilities of adulthood as well as the fact that even adults must yield to authority and abide by the rules of the law.

In other words, in accordance with my own ideals that the acceptance of personal responsibility is the defining characteristic of adulthood, those who adopt nihilistic beliefs and develop persecution complexes are intellectually, emotionally, and morally stunted to the point of perpetual immaturity.

Just wanted to clear that up in case there was any confusion on the subject.

[Jon651]

Originally Posted by Forte Smitten Wesson

If you are referring at all to my post, then you misunderstood what I was saying, although I don't blame you as I have a tendency to ramble on and go off on tangents which makes it difficult to follow what I'm saying at times, but I digress... I wasn't saying that all of the folks who participate in these protests are misguided youths, merely giving the benefit of the doubt to those who are young who may be involved.

Furthermore, at times when I refer to people as "children" or something to that effect, I'm using it as a metaphor for their nihilistic belief that their actions are largely inconsequential because such beliefs are like that of a child who attempts to redirect any blame for their actions elsewhere in order to avoid punishment.
In addition, the persecution complex often shared by many of the folks who participate in these sorts of protests is also characteristic of adolescents, (namely teenagers) who in yet another attempt to escape responsibility choose to believe that when they are scolded or punished for their misbehavior that they are being treated unfairly and are deserving of more privileges, as if being treated as an adult would make their disobedience somehow acceptable because in their eyes adults can do whatever they want, failing to recognize the responsibilities of adulthood as well as the fact that even adults must yield to authority and abide by the rules of the law.

Just wanted to clear that up in case there was any confusion on the subject.

It appears that I may have lost the train of you intended reasoning. I can fully understand if someone is frustrated over child-like behavior, while at the same time I cannot get behind someone blaming them just because they are children.

A fine point to be sure, and thanks for helping clearing the air. I didn't mean to step on any toes.

[Echo40]

No apology is necessary, I took no offense and am aware that my reasoning can be somewhat difficult to follow, especially due to my habit of speaking at length on any given subject and going off on a tangent midway through explanations.

Furthermore, I actually agree with you. If you go back and reread my original post on the matter, I acknowledged that even those who are raised by nihilists and folks with persecution complexes cannot escape from blame because they're old enough to make their own decisions and establish their own beliefs.

[JDinAZ]

Pretty much doesnt matter what you do or dont do nowadays. He could have had a tube of superglue in his hand and still gotten charged for threatening with a chemical weapon or something dumb.

Long as someone crys wolf you get hung in the long run regardless of the actual truths.

We just need to go back to horse and wagons and start again. Things were much simpler back then.

[rwsmith]

Originally Posted by johngalt

Unfortunately the police have been told to stand down in many cities. Looting and rioting has been going on unchecked in Chicago since the beginning of the summer. What do you do when your complaints are ignored because the police are prohibited from enforcing the law?

Like it or not (NOT) that is a dilemma that we are in and it will just be worse if we act out of frustration and fear just like 'they' expect us to do.

[rwsmith]

Originally Posted by Mule Packer

Hmmm. This is one of those situations where you're darned if you do and darned if you don't. As was alluded to earlier, those "peaceful protestors" were baiting that guy. They wanted him to defend his property, hoping he'd make the faux pas of bringing a gun to the party. Now, let's just assume that he hadn't done what he did. Let's just assume he stayed in the house. It's a pretty good bet they not only would've come up on his porch, but they would've also either started pounding on the door or possibly thrown something through the window, provoking him to come out and confront them. Then when he came out waving the gun, they would've had him again.

Like I said, one of those situations where you're darned if you do and darned if you don't. Can't win either way. You can bet your bobsled that the whole thing was planned to the "t."

This isn't 'random'. It's planned to put a person in a doubtful position, make them feel threatened by 'peaceful' protesters and end up looking like a criminal.

One time a lady in our neighbor walked into her kitchen to find about five people standing around talking. Legally, she had a perfect right to shoot them all (in this state) but then she would have paid the price. Were they threatening her, they were only standing around talking? Do you shoot somebody in your house that just standing around talking and not making threatening moves? Of course she called the police and they cleared out, but she was very shaken and upset.

This was long ago, but the whole thing is designed to say, "What are you going to do about it?" I've seen and been the example of similar forms of harassment.

What we are seeing now is larger, more organized version of this, designed to upset and destabilize people.

Another story: My son and I went to a Burger King right down the road that was started to get a reputation for 'belonging' to the troublemakers. We were sitting and I looked out the window and there was a group of people some leaning on my car and talking up a storm, but throwing glances my way. I figured they would just go away and didn't want to take their bait. When I went outside my locked car rear door was wide open. I quit going to that Burger King and it soon closed. Absolutely senseless, but designed to worry and intimidate.

Oh,one more. I looked out my front window to see a crowd of about five people (again) standing about three feet into my yard, having a big conversation. I could tell they were hoping I'd take offense and come out and say something, but I didn't take that bait either.

You know, after putting these together they sound like the same people and from the way they acted and the inclusion of a couple of distinctive females. It seems they were making a living out of doing this stuff and now it's a large part of the population.

[Jon651]

Originally Posted by rwsmith

Another story: My son and I went to a Burger King right down the road that was started to get a reputation for 'belonging' to the troublemakers. We were sitting and I looked out the window and there was a group of people some leaning on my car and talking up a storm, but throwing glances my way. I figured they would just go away and didn't want to take their bait. When I went outside my locked car rear door was wide open. I quit going to that Burger King and it soon closed. Absolutely senseless, but designed to worry and intimidate.

Maybe they saw your door was open and were guarding your car for you?

[Culina]

They are all load mouthed anti police until someone punches them in the mouth, then the first thing they cry for is: someone "call the pole-eace!"

[sourdough44]

Yes, the police are slow to get involved now, can’t blame them to much. Maybe a good time to let the dogs out?

[Echo40]

This whole situation has honestly made me consider taking up Bee Keeping. My parents actually used to have a hive of their own in the backyard, so I could ask them for details about it.

Something tells me that this sort of people wouldn't be quite so bold about loitering in a yard with a bee hive in it, or at the very least would be inclined to leave once the bees became agitated.

Fortunately, nobody has come protesting anywhere near my neighborhood yet and doubtfully ever will, unless they suddenly decide that suburban living is somehow oppressive towards them, which I honestly cannot rule out entirely.

[Mrnurse]

In other words, in accordance with my own ideals that the acceptance of personal responsibility is the defining characteristic of adulthood, those who adopt nihilistic beliefs and develop persecution complexes are intellectually, emotionally, and morally stunted to the point of perpetual immaturity. Its called a Developmentally Regressed Person Sir. Folks who have not Developed the Mental Capacity to make reasonable Thinking Process Via Organic Brain Damage , reducing cognitive skills or Lacking basic Education and Critical Thinking skills. America has many in this Sad Condition Today.

[Drm50]

There needs to be a clear “ Bill of Rights “ on Federal level that are not open to political meddling. American citizens should be able to defend themselves, family and property without fear of prosecution. There are charges being brought against people that DAs know won’t hold up in higher courts. They do it for personal gain and to advance the agenda. They are sick because they seem to try to ruin people even though they know they are innocent. I think they do this to intimidate others. There is remedies against these political Tin Horns but the problem is in some places the system is dominated by them. That’s what we are seeing in the
big cities now.

[Doug M.]

I remember watching the video closer to when this happened. IIRC, he is a retired LAPD Captain, and he ought to know better than to have applied such poor tactics.

I have a fence that is padlocked. My property is also posted. The uninvited should NEVER EVER feel welcome at your home. Period. Before the fence was replaced and extended a few years ago, I NEVER opened the door to someone I did not know. I yelled through it, and it had to be done vigorously because of the dogs (Rotts) barking. I have no concern at all about offending someone; they have no right not to be offended in the first place, and to the extent that social niceties argue against being abrasive all the time, they have forfeited any expectation of being treated gently by entering into my space. I am in the upper size brackets for caucasian males; I have an unwelcoming demeanor, and I do not value people highly anyway. The vast majority of the time, I value critters of all types more highly than most people.

I've been in the criminal justice system as a student, cop and prosecutor for well over 40 years. I can turn on the mean at the flip of a switch, and if people leave my presence unhappy, thinking I'm a meanie and crying, that's their problem. I am not gratuitously unpleasant, but I don't hold back once it is time. "Ask, tell, make" - and that process should not take more than 2-3 seconds. Look and act hesitant, and you are prey to the ill-doers.

[flagman1776]

Originally Posted by Richard Simmons

As I understand it, at least here in VA unless your property is posted or an individual has been informed verbally or in writing, simply being on someone’s property without permission is not “trespassing”.

I didn't think I needed to spell it out when I wrote earlier but the property was apparently not posted. We expect people to come to our front door. USPS, FED EX, UPS, pizza delivery, door dash, grocery delivery, Fuller Brush Man, Jehovah Witnesses. You can send unwanted callers away. In the absence of signage, barriers, I don't see that they've committed a crime, if they leave when asked.
If they don't leave when asked, it becomes trespass. I they damage the property it becomes vandalism. If they force their way inside, it become B & E.

[Mrnurse]

If they force their way inside, it become B & E. Perhaps in your world...in mine it becomes shots fired for fear of life.

[Echo40]

Originally Posted by Mrnurse

In other words, in accordance with my own ideals that the acceptance of personal responsibility is the defining characteristic of adulthood, those who adopt nihilistic beliefs and develop persecution complexes are intellectually, emotionally, and morally stunted to the point of perpetual immaturity. Its called a Developmentally Regressed Person Sir. Folks who have not Developed the Mental Capacity to make reasonable Thinking Process Via Organic Brain Damage , reducing cognitive skills or Lacking basic Education and Critical Thinking skills. America has many in this Sad Condition Today.

You know what's really sad? I can't even tell whether you're being serious or sarcastic because yet another problem present in modern day society is obsessive clinical thinking in which everything must be identified, classified, categorized and compartmentalized to the point that they practically invent new psychological conditions on a daily basis in a desperate attempt to rationalize the irrational behavior of certain people.

Honestly, I cannot comprehend for the life of me what sort of logic, reasoning, or rationality is the basis for the persistent wasted effort to rationalize the irrational behavior of others by classifying their behavior as a symptom of some sort of psychological condition. However, unlike these obsessive clinical thinkers, I'm not nearly obtuse nor arrogant enough to classify any behavior I don't understand as symptoms of "Obsessive® Clinical© Thinking Disorder™" (OCTD™ for short, and I'll trade mark that term immediately because I want a Nickel anytime someone else uses it) so rather than pretentiously presume that anyone whose behavior, motivations, and reasoning defies my own narrow comprehension is brain damaged or suffering from some sort of learning disability, I'm going to assume until provent otherwise on an individual case-by-case basis that they are in fact physically/intellectually capable of making their own life decisions, regardless of whether or not I personally agree with them or understand them.

Oh, and before anyone accuses me of hypocrisy here, I am fully aware that I am essentially arbitrarily labeling an entire group of individuals as nihilists or diagnosing their behavior as symptoms of a persecution complex, but I am doing so unofficially under the authority of no one, do not claim to be a psychiatrist, and am by no means claiming that my observational blanket assessment is objectively accurate to every single individual who has ever attended a protest, nor that every single individual with nihilistic beliefs/tendencies is necessarily capable of comprehending the flaws of their own logic, regardless of whether that be due to lack of experience, lack of maturity, or lack of cognitive function. The behavior of mankind in general is, was, and most likely forever shall remain a mystery to me.

[Mrnurse]

You know what's really sad? I can't even tell whether you're being serious or sarcastic because yet another problem present in modern day society is obsessive clinical thinking in which everything must be identified, classified, categorized and compartmentalized to the point that they practically invent new psychological conditions on a daily basis in a desperate attempt to rationalize the irrational behavior of certain people. Ahhhh Hummm Spent 5 years Civilian ER Psych RN/NP then 20 Years for Vets on a TBI/PTSD unit, Folks who have real issues that need help unlike the drug seeking Civilian Ilk I saw 90% of the time. SO... read my comments and make any observation to my comments as you like. Most people today are self medicated to excess, are selfish and self interested.... I would say DSM Vol 4 ( now Vol 5) Axis 2 Personality disorder. No im not writing for Narcotics or Anti-Psychotics.... there you have it.