3 dead in IN mall shooting; witness kills gunman

[oldbrownhat]

Story here.

GREENWOOD, Ind. (AP) 54 minutes ago — Three people were fatally shot and two were injured Sunday evening at an Indiana mall after a man with a rifle opened fire in a food court and an armed civilian shot and killed him, police said.

The man entered the Greenwood Park Mall with a rifle and several magazines of ammunition and began firing in the food court, Greenwood Police Department Chief Jim Ison said.

An armed civilian killed the man, Ison said at a news conference. In total, four people were killed and two were injured, he said....

[alwslate]

Sad, I'm sure it will be on the late news. Had a good outcome apparently. Greenwood is just slightly south of Indianapolis. Officials in Indianapolis are a loss as to what to do about surging crime in Indy. There are usually several shootings every night in Indianapolis. Their soft on crime policies with early release of murder suspects to house arrest with reduced bond strangely hasn't reduced crime in the city.

[jimbo728]

Lives saved due to action of an armed citizen. Don`t expect the news people to credit the good guy.
Jim

[llowry61]

Hopefully, the reporting is accurate. I am glad to see that Reuters picked up this type of story. We need more reporting when firearms are used to deter, prevent or stop crimes.

Gunman kills three in Indiana mall before being shot by armed bystander | Reuters

[wood714]

Good for him!

Really getting tired of hearing about mass shootings.

Somethings wrong with these nut cases, and it seems to be spreading.

[Rustyt1953]

The story at the top of the FNC website is titled "HERO WITH A HANDGUN".

From the article: "Greenwood Chief James Ison said "a good Samaritan with a handgun" at the scene killed the shooter."

We need more like that 22 year old young man.

[luvsmiths]

Originally Posted by alwslate

Their soft on crime policies with early release of murder suspects to house arrest with reduced bond strangely hasn't reduced crime in the city.

Betcha more incidents like this would.

[Rudi]

Will be good to get the details. This one won't be in the news for long. Does not fit the agenda. The media never mention the 1,000,000 plus DGUs every year.

[upcountry]

I heard on another forum it's a Simon mall and they post "no guns".
Citizen who stopped it will probably be banned from the mall for violating the policy.

[6GUNSONLY]

What a shame that would be. ��

[alwslate]

Originally Posted by luvsmiths

Betcha more incidents like this would.

That's one shooter that will not be a repeat offender! Indy has had murder suspects on house arrest remove their leg monitors and commit another murder after being released on early reduced bond.

[eveled]

Greenwood Park Mall shooting - Wikipedia

There is already a Wikipedia page about it.

Sending prayers and warm wishes to the 22 year old man who stepped up and did the right thing. His life will never be the same.

[9mmPatriot]

Merged thread.

[trooper2899]

No Good Deed Goes Unpunished.....many hours have passed and no information related to the incident has been released by the "powers that Be" to the public, the liberal hack politicians and MSNBC are having a strategy meeting trying to figure out how to squelch the "Good Guy with a Gun" scenario - they will search for "dirt" on 22 yr old good guy to water down his hero status......the official commentery will be "he should have called 911 so the highly trained professionals could have responded and de-escalated the shooter. He can kiss his gun goodbye too it'll be impounded and held as evidence until the 2nd coming.

[Racer X]

Originally Posted by trooper2899

No Good Deed Goes Unpunished.....many hours have passed and no information related to the incident has been released by the "powers that Be" to the public, the liberal hack politicians and MSNBC are having a strategy meeting trying to figure out how to squelch the "Good Guy with a Gun" scenario - they will search for "dirt" on 22 yr old good guy to water down his hero status......the official commentery will be "he should have called 911 so the highly trained professionals could have responded and de-escalated the shooter. He can kiss his gun goodbye too it'll be impounded and held as evidence until the 2nd coming.

never carry something too valuable. Just reliable. a cosmetically challenged 6906 springs to mind.

[Racer X]

Originally Posted by alwslate

That's one shooter that will not be a repeat offender! Indy has had murder suspects on house arrest remove their leg monitors and commit another murder after being released on early reduced bond.

happens in Chicago a surprising number of times.

[UncleEd]

Originally Posted by Rudi

Will be good to get the details. This one won't be in the news for long. Does not fit the agenda. The media never mention the 1,000,000 plus DGUs every year.

Figures for defensive gun use
are all over the place, ranging
from a few hundred thousand to
several millions a year.

The problem with gleaning accurate
statistics is that just brandishing a gun
to ward off an attacker is unlikely to be
reported, including by the gun user.

Let's just say the press locally or
nationally won't be reporting every
incident, in most cases no police
reports were even made.

The shooting at the local grocery
was reported Sunday afternoon on
CNN. But prominence was being
given to newly released tapes of the
Ulvalde school massacre.

[Narragansett]

Originally Posted by upcountry

I heard on another forum it's a Simon mall and they post "no guns".
Citizen who stopped it will probably be banned from the mall for violating the policy.

No good deed goes unpunished.

[oldbrownhat]

Originally Posted by upcountry

I heard on another forum it's a Simon mall and they post "no guns"....

Correct. Mall website is ww w.simon.com/mall/greenwood-park-mall/about

And from Simon's Code of Conduct:

3. No weapons.

Seems to be a long-standing policy, from this 2007 post on USA Carry, after a shooting in an Omaha mall. Very good letter.

[.455_Hunter]

I know it ruffles the "private property" queens, but I would fully support the prohibiton of carry "bans" if your "private property" is "open to the public", like stores, restaurants, bars, malls, theaters and other venues. Private homes and no public access facilities like behind the fence at Lockheed Martin, are a different story.

[growr]

And then the news media exclaimed that a good guy with a gun is a myth!!

Randy

[tops]

Originally Posted by .455_Hunter

I know it ruffles the "private property" queens, but I would fully support the prohibiton of carry "bans" if your "private property" is "open to the public", like stores, restaurants, bars, malls, theaters and other venues.

I agree! Gun owners need to be added to the list of people that can't be discriminated against. Larry

[ladder13]

“A 22-year-old from nearby Bartholomew County who was legally carrying a firearm at the mall shot and killed the gunman, Ison said at a news conference”

Said the police chief.

[JohnRippert]

Originally Posted by jimbo728

Lives saved due to action of an armed citizen. Don`t expect the news people to credit the good guy.
Jim

We actually had a small blurb in the Houston paper saying that a armed bystander shot and killed the shooter. I was amazed.

[ladder13]

Police Chief called the 22yo on hero on the FNC. Can’t vouch for the MSM.

[M29since14]

Originally Posted by eveled

…Sending prayers and warm wishes to the 22 year old man who stepped up and did the right thing. His life will never be the same.

I think this young man should be properly recognized by the State of Indiana. It could be done in a way that was respectful to those who have suffered a loss inflicted by the thankfully now deceased attacker.

Proper recognition might help this young fellow feel better about the “life changing” event he was involved in. At this time there is every indication that he did the right thing, and we (the State of Indiana) shouldn’t be squeamish about officially acknowledging it. JMHO.

I’d also like to put my attaboy in for the Greenwood Chief, who was very clear in characterizing the defender as “the real hero,” and a “Good Samaritan.” Good for the Chief!

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by ladder13

Police Chief called the 22yo on hero on the FNC. Can’t vouch for the MSM.

Our local CBS affiliate picked up what I'm guessing was the Reuters feed, based upon the reporter's accent (I missed the opening part), and aired the Chief's statement and the related story on the morning news show . . .

[Critch]

I guess I'm a little medieval...the shooter's bloody corpse should be shown on the front pages of papers and news reports...let people know what happens to bad people, same with school shooters, etc...Let these young people see the consequences of trying to hurt other people...It's too sanitized...

The media will bury this story as as possible...it doesn't fit their narrative.

[somorris]

So sad. If you don’t think there is evil in the world, study a few incidents like this one. How terrible for those who lost loved ones.

[hyena]

Kudos to the hero who stopped the shooter. Permanently. The surprising part to me was the hero is only 22. I've never seen any demographic break down of concealed carriers, but figured it probably is skewed heavily towards us older guys.

[Sistema1927]

The "If 400 trained police officers can't stop a killer with an AR15 then why do you want to arm teachers?" crowd is now apoplectic.

[oldbrownhat]

Originally Posted by upcountry

I heard on another forum it's a Simon mall and they post "no guns".
Citizen who stopped it will probably be banned from the mall for violating the policy.

Just read this:

"...Simon Property Group, the parent company of Greenwood Park Mall and many others like it, stipulates in its code of conduct that “no weapons” are allowed at its shopping centers, though “exceptions to this code of conduct will be determined by local center management. When asked about whether the guns were allowed there, Greenwood Park Mall directed The Washington Post to its code of conduct.

The mall said in an email that it was “grateful for the strong response” from authorities, and it praised the bystander who stopped the gunman....'

[Old Gray]

Originally Posted by 9mmPatriot

Merged thread.

The only way to stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun. I hope this person remains anonymous for their own safety.

[MattyD380]

Disconcerting to see yet another mass shooting. Fairly close to me--I'm in Cincinnati.

But, clearly, concealed carry--as an institution--can and does have a positive impact on things like this. Glad the guy was able to stop it before more people were killed.

[alwslate]

What I hate to see about this incident is that only three people were killed and the local news media immediately called it a mass shooting They have not voiced any opinion about the young man who stopped the shooter but state and local officials have praised his actions.

[LVSteve]

Originally Posted by alwslate

What I hate to see about this incident is that only three people were killed and the local news media immediately called it a mass shooting They have not voiced any opinion about the young man who stopped the shooter but state and local officials have praised his actions.

By the threshold used by the CDC and, unfortunately, accepted by all news agencies and most police forces, is four deaths. This includes all involved, good and bad. Of course, if I was asked to pay a nickel for what the CDC know about guns and real life, I'd demand change.

[Camster]

Originally Posted by oldbrownhat

Just read this:

"...Simon Property Group, the parent company of Greenwood Park Mall and many others like it, stipulates in its code of conduct that “no weapons” are allowed at its shopping centers, though “exceptions to this code of conduct will be determined by local center management. When asked about whether the guns were allowed there, Greenwood Park Mall directed The Washington Post to its code of conduct.

The mall said in an email that it was “grateful for the strong response” from authorities, and it praised the bystander who stopped the gunman....'

Any other response and they might as well close the mall.

[Muss Muggins]

Not to hijack, but to concur with a recent event near the most dangerous city in America. No charges are anticipated for the hero, since it was St. Charles County. Two miles east and there may have been an issue . . .

Customer who fatally shot robbery suspect talks about incident | ksdk.com

[Rustyt1953]

His name is Elisjsha Dicken.

Much respect young sir.

[Casual Smith Nut]

Originally Posted by Racer X

never carry something too valuable. Just reliable. a cosmetically challenged 6906 springs to mind.

I think it would make a good “special edition” line of whatever arms manufacturer. The “Good Samaritan” special edition. Listening S&W???

[UncleEd]

It would be better that the
young hero remain anonymous.
But I see it's too late.

His future safety would have been
better served.

[Laketime]

Who knows he could be a member here !

[oldbrownhat]

Mr. Dicken had no military or police background, but according to ABC News:

"...Sapirman entered the mall and walked into a bathroom, where he spent about an hour before he emerged and opened fire. He said investigators believe Sapirman spent that time preparing and possibly assembling a disassembled rifle that he had brought in his backpack. He ended up firing 24 rounds within two minutes.

The chief said Dicken fired 10 rounds from his handgun, and that as he fired, Sapirman “attempted to retreat back into the restroom and failed, and fell to the ground after being shot."

“He engaged the gunman from quite a distance with a handgun and was very proficient in that, very tactically sound. And as he moved to close in on the suspect, he was also motioning for people to exit behind him,” Ison said of Dicken...

But another article in The Federalist states:

Meanwhile, Moms Demand Action founder Shannon Watts took a swipe at the good guy with a gun and the Second Amendment, and Kris Brown, president of the anti-gun Brady Campaign, smeared him as a “vigilante.”

[fatcat3]

Mr. Dicken had no military or police background
AND WAS CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY. no ccw classes no proficiency requirements etc.

[alwslate]

Indiana became permitless carry July 1st. So he was legal.

[handejector]

Originally Posted by .455_Hunter

I know it ruffles the "private property" queens, but I would fully support the prohibiton of carry "bans" if your "private property" is "open to the public", like stores, restaurants, bars, malls, theaters and other venues. Private homes and no public access facilities like behind the fence at Lockheed Martin, are a different story.

Private Property Queens?

"No shirt, no shoes, no service" just ain't right either. I should be able to eat in the nude if I want to.

You have the right not to go to those places. They have a right to make the rules. I'm not anxious to see the rights of property owners eroded any further.

[UncleEd]

Yes, sadly the Brady gun control
leader labeled the young man
a vigilante. He was of course
not. He was a citizen defending
himself and others during an
attack.

Again, I wish the young man had
remained unnamed, anonymous
to the public. It would have been
better for his well-being and safety
from kooks in society.

[luvsmiths]

This kid should have been in the school in Uvalde.
He sure as heck would have stepped up and took matters into his own hands!
Things sure would have been different if there was a Brave young man like him there. If he did any hand sanitizing, it would have been after he neutralized the threat.

[54ball]

According to reports ...
Mr. Dickens first act was the safety of his girlfriend whom he made sure had taken cover.
Then Mr. Dicken drew his pistol, propped himself on a support column and engaged the suspect firing 10 rounds at a distance of 40, yes 40 yards.
The shooter fired 24 rounds of 5.56 killing three, wounding two. After being engaged by Mr. Dicken and hit, the shooter tried to retreat to the bathroom from where he emerged with the rifle. He collapsed and died before making it to the bathroom. Another, rifle backpack and cellphone were found in the bathroom.
Once the shooter was down Mr. Dicken closed on the shooter waving people out the door behind him.
As soon as possible Mr. Dicken approached Mall security and waited on police.
Mr. Dicken had no Police or military training as far as we know at this point.

[WCCPHD]

The "Morning News" in Raleigh (read: uber liberal Bloomberg wannabees) announced how "Rare" it is for another gunman (their words) to stop an active shooter. They quoted "statistics."

The left can't have their agenda challenged.