I put a couple of boxes through my old style LCP today so my hand is a bit sore. It still shoots all manner of FMJ & self defense rounds absent a single hiccup, and is accurate out to 10 yards shooting one hand, two hands & weak hand. I sold my LCP Max to a friend b/c I found myself still carrying the old style b/c it’s thinner & lighter in a pocket holster, and I’m a bit lazy when it comes to carrying anything else. I’ve owned this mouse gun about ten years, 400 + rounds of FMJ & HP and never a malfunction of any kind. Other brands were finicky, not good in a self defense tool, so I consider myself lucky.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I often carry the gun the LCP was copied from.
Keltec P3AT.
In my experience, all your comments about your LCP also apply to my P3AT.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

I am in the point-n-shoot camp. I have owned my sightless wonder for 11 years

No complaints..

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

I have an old LCP as well... and a Taurus TCP... the Taurus has a better trigger... so the Ruger gathers dust...

Has it been that long that there's such a thing as an "old" LCP? An old Model 39, maybe. An old Chief Special.

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I need ammo, not a ride.

I have had LCP, LCP II and LCP Max. Like them all. Dead nuts reliable. Accurate? Different accuracy standard at social ranges.

Just curious, which one do you like better? I had the MAX but found myself carrying the original as an EDC.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Well, it's 16 years old. Young for humans, just right for red wine, too old for milk.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Count me in the P3AT camp though I have never shot the Ruger version. My Kel-Tec made a lot of motorcycle miles as it lay flat in my picket when my feet were on the highway pegs. Has always been reliable.

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Randy
Provenance nerd

Just an FYI: I had a TCP but got rid of it due to a false reset problem w/the trigger. As long as you’re aware & train around it no problem, just a heads-up.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Rarely carry my LCP Max any more. Crime is rampant here and no longer confined to the big city.

So I carry something with a little more pop and better sight radius.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

I've been carrying an LCP since 2019 and its always in my pocket, it has even taken a few dips over the years because I forgot it was there.

Granted, it mostly serves as a BUG whenever I go out to one of my subcompacts, but when I'm at home, it's just the LCP in my pocket all the time.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

I hope y'all are aware that there are at least two variants of the original LCP. The first was a pretty solid copy of the P3AT. The second (or Mk1.5 as I call it) introduced more hammer pre-cock leading to a better trigger. I believe the sights are a little better, too.

The LCP II brought us the trigger dingus as the hammer was now pretty much completely cocked.

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Release the Kraken

I have one of the Original LCP's Talo Edition with Hard Chromed Slide (Looks almost like Stainless) Had always been super relaiable FMJ or Hydra Shock's,Don't carry it much any more it was replaced as far as daily carry by a Glock 42

The old LCP. Interesting gun. My wife still carries the original LCP, most of the time. It is probably 15 years old. It is one of few guns that she can conceal effectively. It is proven reliable.

My “old” LCP is the model that came out without a dash in the serial number. It has a slightly better trigger & sight and is carried in a DeSantis pocket holster.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

IIRC, The original LCP did have a slightly modified second version prior to the LCP II.

I believe the first LCP had a dash in the serial number
and the modified variation did not.
We have that one and it's carried without the laser
so it fits in my ankle holster when that's the only option.
Laser is great for point and shoot practice, with no ammo,
and then it's removed.

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Have Fun/Stay Safe

Well good for you that you actually shoot the darn thing, and not just carry it or put it on the table next to the couch.

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Sure you did

The old "original" LCP. It's perfect for what it was intended for...up close and personal.

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Pack light and cinch tight.

It really is funny to see how the original first generation LCPs really did have practically no sights.

My LCP is a 10th Anniversary Edition which is sort of like a hybrid between an LCP 2nd Gen and an LCP Custom.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Target photos would be appreciated. I always wonder if I am shooting well enough, or like other similar shooters with similar weapons, so your target is useful data for me. How about the score at that range?

I am not trying to be better than anybody except the bad guy I need to stop. Knowhatimean?

Kind Regards Always Old Cop and Everyone,
BrianD

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696-6906-457-38-3913-CS40-411

I am new to the Glock 42. Can you relate your everything about yours? I am able to group the Federal Hydra-Shok Low Recoil rounds in a 4 inch circle at 7+ yards.

I was influenced by a YouTube video where three women were asked to shoot and compare 4 popular 380acp pistols including the Glock 42, the Ruger LCP, the Smith Bodyguard, and the Colt Mustang XSP.
Kind Regards!
BrianD

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696-6906-457-38-3913-CS40-411

I do know what you mean but posting pics is a bit beyond my skill level. Besides, those targets went into the trash as I left the range. Apologies . . . .

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I can manage similar groups with a Sig P238, and maybe a touch better Sig P250 subcompact in 380 and the S&W EZ380.

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Release the Kraken

While I understand and appreciate your question, and why you're asking it, isn't it kind of irrelevant?

What HE can do with HIS gun really has no direct bearing or influence on what YOU can do with YOUR gun - does it?

I would think posting photos of YOUR targets would be more beneficial and instructive. That would allow the more accomplished shooters/instructors on the forum to offer advice on how you can improve your accuracy.

Just my thoughts and perspective on your question. No offense intended.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

Sorry - a wee bit off topic - did you have any reliability problems with the LCP Max? I’ve been almost exclusively carrying my LCP2 this year but the Max looks tempting. I’ve had zero issues with the LCP2. Ref ranges - I sure miss Elite SS although I assume you can shoot there as a Retired LEO …

I sold my LCPMax that I had purchased new. Thought I needed a 9mm so I got a Glock 43. I got the LCP Max back on a trade a couple of weeks ago. Just really like having a small pocket pistol.

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otis

I had the first lcp 10 yrs, over 1k rounds never a jam.
Have the max now my daily carry, never a jam.
YMMV

Mine is the LCP Custom, carried often.

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Dave

I’ve had an LCP, LCP2, and LCP Max. The LCP became my wife’s pistol. She prefers it to the other two. If you like the original, the LCP Custom is basically an LCP with improved sights and trigger.

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otis

Excellent response Thanks!
I watched a YouTuber, Stav, her channel is "She Equips Herself". She was shooting a Glock 42 at 10 yards and closer and the target was an 8 inch circle on a human silhouette. After fifty rounds the circle was completely peppered up and there were four or five wild ones a couple not even on the silhouette. I have no interest in those fliers as they are irrelevant mistakes, but the 8" group however left me wondering. The pistol is capable of better, but she was not unhappy at all.

There are YouTubes featuring people shooting the handguns that they are reviewing and they never show the targets. Scootch is one like that. He always looks great and the gun looks great and he skips showing the target. Kind of like a glamour shot, a publicity photo of a ballerina. We really need to see her dance you know? One YT channel that has helped me have more realistic expectations of myself is a former Baltimore police chief named HR Funk. He is a wealth of knowledge and when he shows his target he tells the story of the hits and misses.

With the Glock 42 I am learning the "Glock Hold" which feels like a high thumb. It has tightened the group and solved the limp-wrist problem. In my mind the little 380 pistols like the LCP here described are very similar tools. What can we really reasonably expect from them?

Here is my target any thoughts would be appreciated. I found it in the trash.

The body shots all over the left breast and left arm are using my normal grip hold. It is 7 yards weak-handed one handed and fast. There are 13 shots on the body 6+1, then reload another mag 6 shots.
The top left target is left-handed, a step closer still no delay in shots but I remembered to use the Glock hold. The score is 50/60.
The right target is right handed, two hand hold and I am trying to better align the sights for 2 shots. The head target is a couple of steps closer 5 yards, and I am trying to "aim small". Score 68/70.

Thanks and Kind Regards!
BrianD

Attached Images

Glock Hold.jpg (76.7 KB, 20 views)

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696-6906-457-38-3913-CS40-411

I decided to test my Glock 42 for accuracy one day several years ago. My goal was to see what the gun would do rather than stand up and see how fast I could empty the magazine. I shot slow aimed fire at just over 7 yds at a measured 23 ft sitting in a lawn chair resting the gun on my knee. My groups with a few different brands of 95 gr FMJ from the casual rest position averaged 1 3/16". I decided my G42 was plenty accurate enough for SD.

The original LCP is a great pocket gun & unlike its siblings that followed (LCP II and LCP MAX) it is safer to carry due to the double-action type trigger pull. Less chance of an accidental discharge.

@old cop, I'm glad you got the LCP out for some practice. Reminds me I need to do the same.

Oh yes, as several others have mentioned, my wife also fell in love with my LCP! Told her she couldn't have it but offered her a Keltec P3AT I carried before getting the LCP and she was happy w/that.

SheEquipsHerself is kind of lame. Not impressive at all. HRFunk is great. He’s a former Ohio police chief and was a Marine MP before becoming a cop. He was also a certified S&W armorer for his department and knows the 3rd Gen’s and revolvers inside and out.

My Carry Ammo is Hornady's Critical Defense I did Not measure the groups but it was plenty accurate for My Use,I had Glock Night Sights Installed @ My Local GT Distributors (They Install free while you wait if you purchase the sights there) I have 2 holsters a Desantis Pocket Holster & a IWB from UBG Holsters & also have 2 Magazines with the Pierce Pinky extension base & 2 Regular Magazines I use the ones with extension when carrying IWB & the Regular for Pocket Carry.

I also have a couple of LCP's. The first one has a carbon steel slide, and is of the older design, although a Post-Recall model. The second one has a stainless slide, and the revised and improved trigger and sights (still rudimentary, though).

The first one suffered from a takedown pin that walked out under recoil, but a replacement pin from Ruger resolved the issue.

Both LCP's are much more accurate than they have a right to be. I've tested a variety of major maker JHP and Ball loads, but the standard carry loads I use are Speer GDHP, Rem GS and Winchester T-series, because those were the loads I either could use for quals (when my former agency stocked .380), and I could buy them for reasonable prices for myself. Come to think of it, I think I still have a 50rd box of Winchester STHP remaining, too.

Anyway, I added rubber grip sleeve to both LCP's, just to give my middle finger some better purchase under the snappy recoil of the little guns, and painted the front & rear sights with nail polish to make them easier to see and index.

Interestingly, my LCP's - regardless of trigger style - are virtually as easy to run on the usual qual courses-of-fire as my 5-shot snubs ... out to 20yds. Once the distances get out to 25-50yds, the snubs are easier to use to produce 'working groups'. Dunno if it's the bigger/better sights on the snubs, or the more predictable and familiar DA/DAO trigger pulls of the snubs, or perhaps just better stabilization of the heavier .38SPL & .357MAG JHP's ... but I didn't buy the LCP's with shooting out to such longer distances in mind, anyway.

A little while back I grabbed one of my LCP's to add to a range session for a LEOSA qual. Once again, the LCP pleasantly surprised me with how easily it produced accurate hits shooting both 1 & 2-handed.

Matter of fact, today my wife wants to run into one of the beach towns for some errands, and I have one of my LCP's out of the safe to serve as the retirement CCW of the day. Slimmer and easier fit for a jeans pocket-holstered weapon.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I have a question about this Fastbolt and thank you in advance!

I wonder about the science behind this phenomenon. What phenomenon? By now I take it for granted that barrel length at self-defense ranges does not result in greater accuracy. I can see greater penetration or especially greater expansion velocity from a longer barrel. It is said that the sight radius helps in combat and I see that when shooting quick follow-ups. But when I control the gun, there is NO difference in accuracy, in fact usually the opposite.

I have a Chiefs CS40 which is more precise than every other handgun I own. I often practice with a Model 411 and the Chief together. I have slowly learned how to hit better with the 411 but the CS40 is easy.

18DAI spoke about his CS45 and said that it was surprisingly accurate.
HR Funk did a couple of videos on his favorite, the CS9. He also said something similar to your comment, "more accurate than it had a right to be." My trainer said same thing to me watching me shoot a Colt Mustang. Now you're saying the same with the LCP.

Please correct me, OK? I think there is something called "barrel harmonics", the vibration of the barrel because of the explosion. The shorter the barrel the less this effect disrupts the position of the barrel at the moment the projectile exits. A longer barrel can flex and rotate more, the shorter barrel is stiffer with less time for the effect.

Huh? That sounds all sciency and stuff, but the spiraling response of the barrel is not a large enough movement and the bullet leaves very fast. There is more miss showing on the target with that longer barrel than I can account for this way, assuming I even understand the idea.

If I saw your target after you shot both a longer barreled 9mm, and then your LCP, I would not be able to tell which hole was a 9 and which hole was a 380. If you shot a 380 target then a 9mm target with a longer barrel, I would expect the scores of both targets to be the same. If the LCP was a better score, I would not be surprised. HR Funk shot a LEO Qual course with his CS9, and the score was the same as any other pistol he used. But WHY??

SO, first question. Is this a legitimate observation?
Second question, regardless of whether it is debatable, given the phenomenon is real, how do we account for the relative better accuracy of your LCP or my CS40?

Don't let me put you on the spot FB. You are one of the valued teachers around here, so I put this to you knowing it is no biggie, but I still wonder.

Kind Regards and Gratitude!
BrianD

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696-6906-457-38-3913-CS40-411

I've had all four of those guns. The Colt (plus it's SIG and Kimber clones) and the Ruger went down the road. Still have the Glock 42 and S&W BG380.

If I could only have one gun and it had to be a .380, I would pick the Glock. Otherwise, the S&W gets carried when I need a .380.

Sometimes it's best not to overthink these things.

The shooter/gun grip & trigger control interface may be experienced differently for each shooter on any given day/night, as well as with each different gun. I'd not rule out the effect of breakfast and how much coffee you had before a range trip, either (or dinner, for a night range), rest, etc.

Some folks seem to expect less accuracy when short barrels are involved, or better accuracy when a longer 'sight radius' in involved, but the bullet doesn't care once it leaves the barrel.

If the load is as expected, and the bullet is properly stabilized by the bore, what you see (via sights) ought to be what you get when bullet meets target.

Folks sometimes neglect to 'follow through' on their sight hold as they complete enough of the trigger press to fire, though, or they shift their attention too soon to expecting recoil, and they fail to see the sights shift from their intended POA before the bullet is actually launched. Throw in a little anticipatory flinch, and/or inconsistent grip pressure of one or both hands from shot-to-shot, and hits may vary a bit.

Some guns, and their trigger press, may simply feel 'just right'. Will that be the same from one day to the next? Who knows?

Now, combine short slide travel with perhaps more abrupt (faster) cycling, and the sights may snap back onto target faster, feeling more 'comfortable' to the shooter for subsequent shots. The whole recoil/cycling event is over more quickly, and the shooter can settle down for the next shot.

Larger slides (more mass) and longer slide run may allow a shooter to feel the recoil longer, though, which may have a subtle effect on how the shooter is anticipating (albeit unconsciously, perhaps) it to happen. This can sometimes be heard described as 'dwell time' in the hand during cycling/recoil. The caliber may come into play, too (i.e. slower 'push' of a .45ACP versus the abrupt 'snap' of a .40). One shooter might find the 'push' of the .45 too hard, while another shooter might not 'feel' the added snap of the .40, but likes the way it's 'over' sooner. Different strokes.

The shooter anticipation (and expectation) has more effect than a lot of folks may suspect. Want to get the human factor and influences out of it, put the pistol in a Ransom Rest and have the trigger pressed mechanically.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Thank you FastBolt. You are making the case that there is no real phenomenon, or perhaps more correctly, even if it does exist, it is wayyyy down the list of important things needed to get the job done. Yes, I see it is no biggie. Don't overthink it. Got it, thanks!

For the sake of argument, taken as a given purely for theoretical purposes,
say that there is a real phenomenon, how would one even account for it?

Barrel harmonics is a real thing in precision long range riflery. And it is obvious that very small deviations show up as a failure or a miss in the field, but I cannot wrap my head around applying that concept to a 2.75" barrel versus a 4.25" barrel at a range of 15 yards. On the other hand, I know that in musical instruments the tiniest adjustment can make all the difference because there are so many delicately interdependent parts.

When Paul Harrell was shooting the LCP, his groups were adequate but not impressive. "That is about the best I can ever do with these tiny pistols," he said. Perhaps 18DAI was surprised that his scores/groups were just as good with the little Chief as his other guns, not actually better. HR Funk was undeniably better with his CS9 but credited his long experience with that particular gun. "I have always shot this gun really well," he said.

Kind Regards!
BrianD

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696-6906-457-38-3913-CS40-411

Trying to conflate such things with different situations and equipment can take you down an unending series of rabbit holes.

Want to think about something odd? The barrel twist of a pistol barrel and how the barrel itself is affected by the passage of a bullet through the bore. The bullet turns within the barrel (rifling), but the barrel also turns around the bullet, to some degree.

I was told this by someone at S&W, during a call I'd made as an armorer, and the tech had some time to chew the fat about related issues. He explained that the barrel 'twisting', caused by the bullet acting upon the rifling, resulted in one side of the barrel chamber shoulders hitting down against the top of the frame harder than on the other. This was usually something that might be seen (if anyone noticed it at all) in some aluminum frames, meaning the markings caused by the chamber shoulders dropping against the top of the frame.

Naturally, whether it was a RH or LH twist would make a difference on which side of the barrel shoulders dropped harder.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Zero problems w/the MAX but I sold it to a friend b/c it seldom was carried. My “old” LCP is always in my pocket. I’m a bit lazy & favor the original b/c it’s smaller & lighter.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

When it comes right down to it, presuming you can make the desired hits, and do so under some awkward and demanding conditions ... this is really what it's all about.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

There's another well-worn saying, which is you fight with what you have, not with what you want.

What if what you want becomes a bit cumbersome to carry concealed over time, and the ability to lawfully carry a concealed handgun starts to pall, or interfere more than you might wish regarding other activities in your daily life? It often results in the CCW weapon being left behind.

I saw this happen with more cops than I expected (as a young cop who was a gun enthusiast ). After a long day/night carrying a belt gun on a gun belt, the last thing a lot of cops wanted was to carry a gun on their own time. Dunno what the stats are nowadays, but as recently as 2012 I was hearing (in LEOKA and officer survival classes) that only as much as 20% of active cops said they carried off-duty. Sure, that might vary by geography of the LE and agencies being polled, and their experience, etc.

In one of the officer safety classes I attended, when the cops were asked for a show of hands of those who carried off-duty, it was more than half, but you might expect that when considering the nature of the class topic. It was almost the same in another officer safety class I attended a little earlier, but again, this was a class where people wanted to be there, so there was probably an interest at work regarding what comprised 'officer safety' while off-duty.

Now, when you consider that off-duty and honorably retired peace officers generally aren't subject to many of the same restrictions as CCW licensees (at least here in CA), you'd think it being easier for them to choose to be armed on their own time would mean they'd exercise that privilege more often right?

Don't get me wrong, as I'm not a proponent of making people carry weapons on their own time if they don't wish to do so. It's just as much a personal freedom to choose not to do so, as it is to be able to choose to do so, and I'm all about someone exercising their personal freedoms.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

We like the LCP in this house. It has proven reliable and convenient. I am convinced that .380 is sufficient, in many circumstances.

My wife's original (old school) LCP on the left. Bought her a replacement last week (middle). She still carries the old one. I have an LCP II (right). For me, LCP is not a daily carry. Occasional, but J frame snub or third gen pistol most of the time. The little LCP has its place.

I could see getting one of those older LCP's. I've heard nothing but good things about them.

I started with the LCP, purchased the LCP II which has a better trigger in my opinion. The Max almost looks too big for pocket carry which is my preference.

I'm very happy with the LCP II and have no plans to change my pocket carry unless something much better comes along. I have a SIG P-365 for belt carry if I want something with more power than the .380 round.

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OGCA Member.

LCP it is a great pocket carry mine is a Generation II not a LCP2 carried for years till a 2015 BG .380 took over then this year a Sig P365 upped the game with higher capacity with more punch and is my EDC.

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