I have two S&W revolvers I use in everyday carry...A 3 1/2" .38/44 HD (the one with the Diet Coke grips) which is now 68 years old, and a .38 M&P Target which is just shy of 98...Both are in better health than I am, and both carry Hornady XTP's...At what point, if any, should a gun be called too old to trust as a reliable defender?......Ben

Attached Images

	IMG_1825.jpg (108.6 KB, 455 views)
	IMG_1826.jpg (135.2 KB, 455 views)
	IMG_1827.jpg (121.4 KB, 451 views)
	IMG_1828.jpg (140.7 KB, 456 views)

__________________
Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

Well, neither of those.

__________________
Sure you did

I'm guessing that those two will still be going strong when you, and possibly your kids, are dust.

__________________
Only a cold warrior

both weapons look great. I"m sure if their function were questioned by you, you would get maint. work done.

I suppose one could argue that they're too old in the sense that they're too valuable. I would argue that you need to pair them with the equally old fashioned 158 gr. LSWC.

Ben, likely you will become an unreliable defender long before either of those fine pieces do!

When possible assailants are armed with high energy particle beam weapons.

They should be working long after you exist.


I have been known to carry a Colt M1903 Hammer that was manufactured in 1914. In the case I carry it in no one questions it.

Attached Images

	Bible 1.jpg (264.3 KB, 73 views)
	Bible 2.jpg (155.9 KB, 44 views)

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

My Winchester mdl 12 was made in 1918. My Winchester mdl 97 was made in 1917.........Both are over 100 tears old. Both still work like they are supposed to..........Quality guns never get to old to shoot and enjoy.

__________________
S&W Accumulator

Age of a firearm is not a factor in determining if it is suitable for use as a defensive gun. Any gun, revolver or automatic, if in good mechanical condition, reliable and capable of firing current production ammunition is acceptable. Emphasis on ANY!

__________________
Gunsmithing since 1961

Concerning humans, age is just a state of mind. Concerning guns if its in good mechanical shape and you do not shoot nuclear type loads out of it its never too old!

__________________
14 S&W Revs none with locks!

Those guns, id just be shooting with lead. least barrel wear

I can assure you the functionality of both exceed my own on my best day......Ben

__________________
Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

There was a recent story, not sure if it was local, involving a home defense shooting…with a muzzleloader. Doubt the defender in that instance was worried about obsolescence - perhaps more so about follow up shots.

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I also have a rather well used Winchester Model of 1912 that was made in 1918. Have the barrel cut down to 18 inches to remove a very hated Poly-Choke. It does duty in the house now. Still works like new!

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Provided that a firearm has been well maintained and isn't completely worn out from decades of high volume shooting, there's no reason why a firearm cannot be used indefinitely.

The only valid reason not to use older firearms for self-defense is if they're unreliable or otherwise unsafe to shoot.

__________________
Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

As mentioned, above, assuming proper maintenance, inspection and occasional test fire, there isn't an experation date.

On a more practical side, I'd say the availability of parts, repair skills, the availability of effective ammo, round count, rust, wear, etc. would determine the actual lifespan of the weapon.

Another factor would be your ability to see the gun sights and operate the weapon.

I am 72 and one of my favorite guns is older than me by a bunch

Same here!! My Colt M1909, but to big for me to pack around.

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Age is not the issue. It's functionality.
Like sleepy Joe. Not his age.

__________________
"from my cold dead hands" C.H.

It depends on the gunman. Some of us are exceptional shootists and then others are not.

I reload Hornady XTP for my 38 Special, 357 Magnum and 44 Special for my carry and home defense loads.

As a Senior Citizen I know a lot of my peers that should not be carrying.

True, but only if they are properly maintained.

......others are not.... Come to my local gun range. There are folks there shooting that have trouble hitting a 28" X 28" cardboard backer let alone the target on it. The carriages, baffles, benches, and the overhead are all shot full of holes. With some the safest place is in front of them..........

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Good point about humans but I would add, "Aptitude". Not everyone is a "Shootist" and that is why we have classifications like Marksman, Sharpshooter, Expert and Master.

IMHO, as long as you feel your firearm is mechanically sound, safe, and will perform as needed its age shouldn't be a factor. I'd carry either of those with confidence.

__________________
Why duck?? It's a 9mm!

Well said fiasconva. Run em! If mechanical is good and I assume you have plenty of practice, memories and are very familiar with them. That’s all you need.

My grandmother had an ancient (1904) S&W .32 that was bought for her by my grandfather (used) in 1921. He took her to shoot it and she ran 3 cylinders full through it. It was cleaned, loade, and placed in a drawer by her bed. Grandpa passed in 1956. In 1984, (63 years since it had been fired) my now 88 yr old, 4’11”, 90 lb Irish Grandmother was awakened by a burglar (at 2am) trying to jimmy a window on the screened in back porch that opened into her back bedroom. Most little old ladies would be terrified. Not grandma, she grabbed her old S&W, unlocked the back door and sent three rounds downrange��. The punk was so scared he jumped through the screen wire, breaking a 2x2 doing so, and fell 6 1/2 ft to the ground before running off��. My Dad’s cousin called Dad (who called me)
We got to Grandma’s at about the same time. Grandma “I ain’t having nobody break in my house”! Local small town cop got a kick out of it, laughing as he says” I’ll bet she broke that clown from ever messing with little old ladies”. I looked at theold pistol. The brass was Green, the lead bullets were White with oxidation. I cleaned it, reloaded it, and put it back in the drawer. It was still there when Grandma passed away at 97. It’s in my safe today.

A story told to me by my Father:

Sometime in the early 1960's, my Dad was called in to work a night shift at a printing plant that was located in a nasty part of St. Louis. His younger brother had borrowed the S&W that Dad usually carried, so he took the only other handgun that he had available: a .36 caliber Navy Colt. As he was leaving the plant he was approached by a pair of "gentlemen" who demanded his car keys and his wallet. He told me that their eyes got really wide as the hammer on that old Colt went click-click-click-click and one of them asked "What the hell kind of gun is that?" My Dad said that he replied "The kind that kills you."

The two "gentlemen" departed the scene rapidly and Dad went home.

The story was told to me one night when I was lamenting being out of ammo for my .38, which meant that my carry gun for my night shift would have to be a Colt Frontier Scout .22LR. Dad told me that it's not what you carry, or how you carry it....what matter is that you are carrying.

I would be happy to go afield with either of the two guns pictured above, and my 3rd model HE .44 is part of my carry rotation. Go with what gives you confidence. If you don't have that, go with what you've got.

__________________
SWCA #3942 / SWHF #988

Truckman they look quite formidable to me and im pretty sure that as good as that pair looks on the outside they are maintained just as well on the inside by you;as the adage goes age is only a number.

Hanging on the wall in my basement is a rifle manufactured by Saur and Sons. It's an 8 MM Kropotchek made in 1886. It is fully functional, and I'd have no qualms taking it out to shoot Bison or Moose. The biggest problem I have is getting proper bullets for it. Right now, the newest bullets I have were made in 1926, and some are from 1916. They still shoot fine, but they are not hunting ammo, unless the snakes you are hunting are bipedal.

Shoot 'em.

I routinely shoot guns that are much older than I am! I am 70. I have never had one fail or wear out. Just make sure you use the proper ammo the gun was originally designed to shoot and you will be fine.

Ben, In your case, you should stay away from guns that were modern when you were a yout.....aka match lock & percussion

__________________
On the Oak Savannah

My cut-off for defensive duty is generally 1900, but there are exceptions. My Boer War private purchase Webley MK III (caliber marking is my avatar) is just as good today as when it left the Army and Navy Co-operative Society's store. I have also carried my H&A Ranger #2 in .32 RF from the 1870's. It's just like a big NAA Mini.

I am ashamed that all the good people here are giving you the wrong info. These guns are way way to old to be shooting, pm me and I will give you me address, if you send them to me I will send you 2 brand spanking new semi autos.

I don't carry it but this S&W M&P 38 spl from 1911 serves house duty. Shoots as good as new, I do have the original hard plastic grips also.

Attached Images

IMG_8126.jpg (184.3 KB, 12 views)

__________________
_______________
Super Snooper

To quote Jimmy Durante, "Evabody's tryin' ta get inta da act!"......Ben

__________________
Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

It's anecdotal, but it seems like there's a strong correlation between low gun cost and its defensive use by non-LEOs. It makes sense. The guy who can afford a $5000 Wilson Combat 1911 probably lives in a very nice neighborhood with good police response, alarms, etc. The grandma in the hood with a .32 top break passed down from her grandfather has a much greater chance of employing it with a break-in or domestic issue.

I tend to avoid gun snobs, and it helps that I live in a 'chuck steak and Coors' kind of town, and have a lot of respect for some of the retirees around who pack S&W J frames and 2nd gens, Colt D frames, and other guns shunned by the gun rags as obsolete. My Glock 26 is already considered to be on its way out as a late 20th century design...carry what you got!

__________________
Psalm 27:2

All of my best Smiths are older than me, and I'm 74 this year. 1950 M&P 38 2" snub, 1948 K-38 6", 1913 38 HE 6". All are in great condition, and all see only 148br SWC or HBSWC's, and 158 LSWC. Just don't want to wear the rifling. The 1950 gets occasional 4 o'clock hip carry, if I'm wearing a jacket. Too big otherwise. Best Smith DA triggers are both my 1983 j-frames, a mdl. 60 and a mdl. 38.

__________________
Heavily armed old man.

Both look great. If you're concerned, take them to a competent smith and have them cleaned and lubed. I always do that with new to me revolvers that I intend to shoot a bit.

That goes back to the old "Saturday Night Special" argument. The folks that don't have high paying jobs also do not have a lot of money to defend the family and homestead.........So they can not afford a big fancy gun.

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

If it shoots, it scores. Never too old, really.

Myself, if I ever had to shoot someone, I'd prefer to do it with an easily replaceable, modern firearm. Why waste a perfectly good gun on an evidence locker? Or worse, a fine old firearm disappearing from an evidence locker?

__________________
Just Say No - To Social Media

You have a good point there! Had two guns stolen from my house years ago. Turned up in the next county south. Found out from my PD where they were. Contacted the PD there and confirmed they were mine with them. Was told had to stay there until the trial. After six months I contacted the States Attorney's Office. After a bit of a delay I was told the charges had been dropped. Went down to reclaim my guns from the PD who had them in their Evidence Locker. At first they seemed to know nothing about them. I showed the the original police report, then the paperwork from the States Attorney's Office and they still hemmed and hawed about them. Had my Son-In-Law with me, he is a Deputy Sheriff in my county and he asked to see the Chief of Police about all of this. All of a sudden the guns were found and brought to us. Funny thing was there were no evidence tags on them. S-I-L figures someone was waiting to take them home with them (a FN L1A1 and a Remington USMC M870 MK 1).

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

My view is a little different...If I ever found myself in a situation where one or the other of us is likely to be shot, I'd rather stake my life on a familiar, reliable firearm which I'm accustomed to having in my hand...Why waste a perfectly good life with an unfamiliar firearm of questionable quality even if I can replace it easily at the pawn shop around the corner?......Ben

__________________
Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

Those 2 guns have obviously outlived their usefulness. They are better boat anchors than defensive sidearms. But it’s your lucky day. I collect boat anchors.

Without touching on old ammo or gummed up lubricant, a really old gun might have unreliable key springs. If the ammo is replaced with something modern and in pressure suitable for the gun, gun is cleaned and lubed and key old springs inspected/replaced as indicated, the gun will do its job.

A better question might be, is there a more suitable modern gun that will also do the job, perhaps even better. I have nothing against a red dot equipped plastic-fantastic, with a WML when it might be necessary to repel boarders. Yes, the bearer will need to learn how to run the new tech, as well as keep fresh batteries installed, Likely will work better in low light and I won't be really upset if the gun ends up in the evidence locker for a while.

Fresh batteries is the key. Not a big fan of electronics on a firearm.

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Metal can spoil, just like vegetables or meat, just not as fast. When your firearm smells like rotting vegetables or rotting meat, and cleaning doesn't help, it's time for it to go.

__________________
Formerly Model520Fan

Under low light or dark conditions a WML beats the heck out of any handheld light. Tritium sights still require a flashlight, either handheld or WML, for proper use in low/no light conditions. With good lithium batts, one may not need to change for 5 yrs or more.

A red dot sight, coupled with a WML, makes shooting in low/no light an entirely different proposition. Quick, accurate shots are possible, even on moderate to distant threats. Mine has iron tritium backup sights that co-wit with the dot, for just in case.

Of course a bare handgun is better than none. For low/dark conditions, add the light. During daylight, I'm fine with a good non-MIM S&W revolver as well as a quality plastic fantastic. A couple handguns I might use are near 100 yrs old and I'd trust them with fresh ammo to defend the castle. A couple of my S&W revolvers are 50 years old and are trusted to defend my hide out in public.

I won’t carry this 1911 made in 1918. The slides were not hardened back in the day, and the fire control parts are old and prone to embrittlement. It’s not that it is likely to fail in a self defense situation, rather it’s less likely to tolerate regular practice long term.



I also am unlikely to carry a pre war PP series pistol as they have a known history of the face hardened fire control parts becoming brittle with repeated decocking over several decades.

My 1960s and 1980s era PP series pistols are manually decocked to avoid that issue down the road.



I doubt CMP will ever release surplus M9s, given they are obviously 15 round high capacity death machines that will autonomously seek out and murder people.

But if they do, I would not carry one as a self defense handgun without replacing the fire control parts. They also have a history of parts breakage due to embrittlement due to the US Army in particular function checking them to death. It’s not all of them by any means but rather unit and role specific and in dependent of round count.

Besides, they never adopted a compact model

I hear the parts breakage thing referenced a lot but realistically it’s not a big issue.

Still, when the Star BM pistols started getting imported for a second time, I jumped on board as they are a very right sized 9mm 1911 style pistol that shoots and carries exceptionably well. i bought two, as at around $225 each they were pretty much a BOGO deal. My thoughts were I’d have a spare parts donor if the need ever arose (and it never has).

Practically speaking it was also very handy as I was commuting from NC to DC at the time and with two I could have the same carry pistol at each end with no need to check baggage.

I then bought a truly ****** S&W .380 Bodyguard when the S&W folks showed up at the shop with a promotion. It was incredibly disappointing and I traded it the day after I bought it on another Star BM.



But I digress…. The point is that I have been conceal carrying for 38 years now, shooting for a lot longer, and shooting a lot by most any standard short of professional practical pistol competitors, and I have never had a quality firearm break for other than initial QA or infant mortality reasons.

I’ll add the caveat about parts embrittlement as discussed above, but beyond that, buy a quality firearm, don’t abuse it, keep it clean, keep it lubricated, and it’ll take care of you.