Wadcutters For Snubbies

smoothshooter · #**151** 04-23-2025, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6thtexas

in one of his books Cirillo talked about effectiveness of different loads. he actually had a bad guy take a 12 ga. slug in the chest and still leave the building and go to the curb where he thought his ride would be. IIRC Cirillo said that after all the shootings they had the only thing he could absolutely guarantee to be an immediate stop was a .38 WC placed in the vicinity of the target's right eye.

I highly recommend Cirillo's books. He really had been there and done that as opposed to all the admen pushing new stuff and all the keyboard commandos.

I might add that Cirillo's WC loads were "full charge" loads that produced the same velocity as the 158 RN load. It is my understanding that ammunition companies loaded these for several large city PDs including New York. This load gave the same recoil as the RN carry loads but were easier to score on qualifications. This load can be replicated with a SOLID based WC and 3.5 grains of Bullseye (I wouldn't use over 3.2 grains with any HBWC available today). I use a Lyman 358495. Velocity will run about 800fps in a 4" and they average 749fps out of my Model 49. Penetration is more than adequate and as Elmer Keith would say the full caliber hole lets a lot of blood out and cold air in. I have shot several sheep and a steer for slaughter with this load and have a lot of confidence in it.

I have to get some of Cirrillo’s books. I read everything he wrote in magazine articles. Matter of fact, thanks to you, I will order some tomorrow. THANK YOU for reminding me about those books.
Interesting Tidbit For the Day:
Cirillo said in a couple of his magazine articles the best all around quick put’em down round with a decently placed shot was the .30 carbine 110 grain soft point fired out of a rifle. Even better than any shotgun load. Surprise, but there it is.
Thank You 6’th Texas!

Matt_X · #**152** 04-24-2025, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothshooter

I wonder how many of those hits were ricochets from other objects that slowed them down.

None. It's a story that spread like stories will do. The claim is that the guy made hits, not skip shots. There's no evidence to support the claim; not a location, not a post-combat examination, nothing. Probably someone, somewhere had a bad day on the job and made up an explanation or explanations. Or his buddy did. It's not 30-06 but it will still go through thin steel or pine boards at 100 yards.

AJ · #**153** 04-24-2025, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothshooter

I wonder how many of those hits were ricochets from other objects that slowed them down.

Was taught that ricochets that hit the ground tend to travel parallel to the deck. Which means they will strike low on the legs. But better to hits the adversary in the legs then not at all.

smoothshooter · #**154** 04-26-2025, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt_X

None. It's a story that spread like stories will do. The claim is that the guy made hits, not skip shots. There's no evidence to support the claim; not a location, not a post-combat examination, nothing. Probably someone, somewhere had a bad day on the job and made up an explanation or explanations. Or his buddy did. It's not 30-06 but it will still go through thin steel or pine boards at 100 yards.

Don’t get me wrong. I think the heavy clothing stopping .30 carbine bullets thing is unlikely on a direct hit. I have shot .30 Carbines off and on for years and early on was impressed with the penetration capabilities on steel, wood, and other materials with FMJ. Have seen steel silhouette targets that were rated full-tier .357 FMJ at close range get holed out to 75 yards. Looked like someone took an electric drill and made nice, neat holes. The 110 Jacketed Hollow Point was a real groundhog dumper out to 100+ yards, and expanded impressively and was not likely to ricochet for a any really long distance on pass-throughs.
The 110 Jacketed Soft Point is probably the most generally useful load in this cartridge as it penetrates better than the Hollow Point.
I love these little rifles and their little cartridges and the 15 round magazines, and that they can be reloaded using carbide dies.