Good Advice for 1st-Time CCW Buyers

[Shooting*]

Mastering the fundamentals is more important than anything else. A cheap, used .22 is a solid starting point.

Don't make the mistakes that I made in the past. My first CCW handgun purchase was a mistake. I bought it mostly because of write-ups in leading gun magazines at the time. They described it as accurate, reliable, etc., etc. Good enough for me. I'll go to the nearest shop that has one, see how it fits my hand, and if it feels good, then slap down the plastic.

Wrong. What I should have been thinking is this - If I can shoot it accurately at a fast pace, then that is the one for me. How I and gun perform live fire is all that matters. That's it.

In other words, don't buy any gun that you haven't shot. Case in point, my first handgun purchase, back in 1985, was a Sig Sauer P226. I bought it simply because of some magazine articles and because it felt great in my hand. However, once I got it to the range I quickly discovered that I could not shoot it accurately at a quick pace. Disappointed I sold it shortly thereafter. In the end I purchased an Heckler & Koch P7M8 but only after I gave it several test runs at a rental range. I could shoot it very well and its with me to this day.

Don't "magazine-picture-buy" your first CCW gun. Buying a handgun because you drooled over it in Soldier of Fortune magazine is no way to select a tool that is intended to save life and limb. Unfortunately, due primarily to limited funds, many people do this.

You can tell who is inclined to purchase in this manner as they ask a lot of questions and agonize over the many choices available. They aren't going to get on a range and shoot. They simply want to buy based upon "magazine" as opposed to field research. Just peruse newbie posts on this forum. They analyze and agonize to the point of paralysis.

First-time CCW gun buyers:

- Find an indoor range that rents used guns and shoot as many types and models of handguns, with as many different brands and loadings of ammunition, as you can afford before buying.

- Go to an IDPA or other meet and politely introduce yourself to attendees and participants. Explain what you are trying to accomplish. You'll be surprised to what extent people are willing to help. Some will help others won't, but I'd bet more are willing to help than not. Ask questions and just let them talk...and talk they will. You'll learn a lot.

The above are the easiest ways to get exposure to as many models and types as possible in a relatively short period of time.

All this may cost you a bit more, but you'll be glad you took this step before buying.

And everyone should own a .22 - cheap and fun. Master the fundamentals with a .22 and you'll be great with larger calibers.

Hope you find this useful.

Shooting *
S & W PC-13
H & K PSP

[Shooting*]

Mastering the fundamentals is more important than anything else. A cheap, used .22 is a solid starting point.

Don't make the mistakes that I made in the past. My first CCW handgun purchase was a mistake. I bought it mostly because of write-ups in leading gun magazines at the time. They described it as accurate, reliable, etc., etc. Good enough for me. I'll go to the nearest shop that has one, see how it fits my hand, and if it feels good, then slap down the plastic.

Wrong. What I should have been thinking is this - If I can shoot it accurately at a fast pace, then that is the one for me. How I and gun perform live fire is all that matters. That's it.

In other words, don't buy any gun that you haven't shot. Case in point, my first handgun purchase, back in 1985, was a Sig Sauer P226. I bought it simply because of some magazine articles and because it felt great in my hand. However, once I got it to the range I quickly discovered that I could not shoot it accurately at a quick pace. Disappointed I sold it shortly thereafter. In the end I purchased an Heckler & Koch P7M8 but only after I gave it several test runs at a rental range. I could shoot it very well and its with me to this day.

Don't "magazine-picture-buy" your first CCW gun. Buying a handgun because you drooled over it in Soldier of Fortune magazine is no way to select a tool that is intended to save life and limb. Unfortunately, due primarily to limited funds, many people do this.

You can tell who is inclined to purchase in this manner as they ask a lot of questions and agonize over the many choices available. They aren't going to get on a range and shoot. They simply want to buy based upon "magazine" as opposed to field research. Just peruse newbie posts on this forum. They analyze and agonize to the point of paralysis.

First-time CCW gun buyers:

- Find an indoor range that rents used guns and shoot as many types and models of handguns, with as many different brands and loadings of ammunition, as you can afford before buying.

- Go to an IDPA or other meet and politely introduce yourself to attendees and participants. Explain what you are trying to accomplish. You'll be surprised to what extent people are willing to help. Some will help others won't, but I'd bet more are willing to help than not. Ask questions and just let them talk...and talk they will. You'll learn a lot.

The above are the easiest ways to get exposure to as many models and types as possible in a relatively short period of time.

All this may cost you a bit more, but you'll be glad you took this step before buying.

And everyone should own a .22 - cheap and fun. Master the fundamentals with a .22 and you'll be great with larger calibers.

Hope you find this useful.

Shooting *
S & W PC-13
H & K PSP

[Lugger007]

shooting,

thank you for that insight. As a new buyer I do sometimes ask too many questions when I go to the local shop.

But I plan to try and hit up a few events in the near future to talk.

But as of right now pretty sure I have my mind set on my first piece. But more information is never a bad thing.

Brian

[Shooting*]

You need to ask as many questions as you find necessary.

If you have access to a large, local gunshow that's where you can see it all. Big shows drive me nuts - too much to take in all at once.

[Wyatt Earp]

When looking at my very first defensive handgun purchase I went with what pointed the best and felt the most natural in my hand: A 637.

To this day there is NOTHING that sits in my hand quite like a round-butt Smith & Wesson revolver, be it J, K, L, or N frame.

[casingpoint]

NOTHING that sits in my hand quite like a round-butt Smith & Wesson revolver

Ditto.

[11B Lifer]

Most execellent advice Shooting*.
In the early 1900's Colt and SW made quite a few models designed for pocket carry (also the Remington M51 and Savage). These guns have characteristics that make them ideal for carry: thin (particularly the M51), compact(but they fit my hand well) small sights, (redundant safeties with the autos.) light, limited recoil, and reliable. I carry 1903/08 Colts and my wife carries a M-36. We fired alot of guns (and tried carrying them) to determine what would work best-we even tailor our ammo-I load my wifes gun up with wad cutters.

[Loy]

Another suggestion is ask someone who carries for a living. If you know a police officer or more than one picking their brain is great. These guys talk to each other a lot and have used many different guns and holsters. They may even invite you to a gun range where you can try theirs although you would probably already have to be a good friend of theirs before this happens but it was good for me. I know several and if you can catch them on one of the "guys day out shooting" and tag along you will get some great insight on their likes and dislikes. Still it is your decision but as you say every little bit of information helps.

[Lugger007]

Loy thanks for the idea of talking to a cop. I do know a few, not sure if it is that well, but will see. Going shooting with the girlfriends father soon who has quite a few and he said I can try them all. So I'll be able to get a better idea there too.

[Dusty Miller]

Originally posted by Wyatt Earp:To this day there is NOTHING that sits in my hand quite like a round-butt Smith & Wesson revolver, be it J, K, L, or N frame.

The S&W Model 66 that's tucked inside my waist band feels right nice in my hand too. That's especially true since about 11:00am this morning when I installed a set of CT laser grips. MMMMMMMM!! Yes indeed!!

[noknock]

Originally posted by Lugger007:
Loy thanks for the idea of talking to a cop. I do know a few, not sure if it is that well, but will see. Going shooting with the girlfriends father soon who has quite a few and he said I can try them all. So I'll be able to get a better idea there too.

And to expand upon that excellent idea of talking to a cop, try and talk to a plain clothes specifically, maybe someone in a drug unit, etc, unless you routinely wear a coat and tie. YOu want to talk to the guys in jeans and t-shirts that carry CONCEALED everday from when it is 25 degrees outside to 90 degrees with high humidity! It's not hard to carry a gun on a holster next to a badge when it is 90 degrees. Concealing that gun when it is 90 is a different story.

From a standing ready position until actually firing should be less than 4 seconds and that includes sweeping the pants leg up to establish a grip all from the kneeling. One fluid motion. I know some that can accomplish this in just over 2 seconds giving the standing guys wearing a belt holster a run for their money. . .

And then take the advice with a grain of salt. I still see guys on a pretty big department sometimes use carry methods that are completely unacceptable. After some good old fashion public humiliation at their stupidity, so far peer pressure has won and the stupid stopped. . .

One last point, most of your successful concealed carry methods that involve in the pants or on the ankle will depend on athletic ability and/or body size, shape, are you rail thin or a big guy? There is lots of things for you to consider and to actually try which will let you know what is best for you in your circumstances. Good luck.

[Lugger007]

noknock,

thanks for a greater in depth reply to talking to cops.
I am new to concealed carry. I would consider my self athletic. Have been doing competitive sports since I could walk. I was a swimmer, so not a big guy @ all and only 22 just under 6ft. What would you recommend the best carry method be.
I was thinking either in the small of my back or ankle.

[The Big D]

Originally posted by Lugger007:
noknock,

thanks for a greater in depth reply to talking to cops.
I am new to concealed carry. I would consider my self athletic. Have been doing competitive sports since I could walk. I was a swimmer, so not a big guy @ all and only 22 just under 6ft. What would you recommend the best carry method be.
I was thinking either in the small of my back or ankle.

You're not asking me, Lugger, but I have carried for 33.5 years. FWIW, small of the back is an absolute no, no. Well nigh impossible to access if on the ground, seated in a car, chair, etc. Also can cause very serious injuries if you go down and land on it. Ankle holsters are a secondary means of CCW, at best, in my opinion. Plus, they are readily exposed should you cross your legs and difficult to access quickly.

Best way to carry for most folks is strong side, belt. That can be either IWB or OWB.

Have carried medium size semi-autos and large and small revolvers those ways for lotsa years.

Be safe.

[Lugger007]

Originally posted by The Big D:

You're not asking me, Lugger, but I have carried for 33.5 years. FWIW, small of the back is an absolute no, no. Well nigh impossible to access if on the ground, seated in a car, chair, etc. Also can cause very serious injuries if you go down and land on it. Ankle holsters are a secondary means of CCW, at best, in my opinion. Plus, they are readily exposed should you cross your legs and difficult to access quickly.

Best way to carry for most folks is strong side, belt. That can be either IWB or OWB.

Have carried medium size semi-autos and large and small revolvers those ways for lotsa years.

Be safe.

Big D,

it was a general answer to noknock, but will never turn away useful info from anyone. so thank you.
Thanks for the heads up on the back. I'll cross that idea out then. Right now I will be carrying my glock 19 as my ccw. I know this is a disputed and personal opinion, but what would you recommended for my first holster to get comfortable with.
Anyone else with idea's on holsters to get comfortable and used to would be appreciated.
Thanks

Brian

[flop-shank]

More important than the holster is the belt. I use a Beltman belt (dual layer bullhide). I like to carry large revolvers, so I prefer the deep concealment that IWB offers. You might want to try a less expensive, but great for the money, holster with your top quality belt. Don Hume and Mika come immediately to mind. This will let you know if IWB carry is for you. One way or another you will need a good belt. Like most of us, if you are dedicated to concealed carry you are probably destined to have a box full of different holsters.

[The Big D]

Lugger:

Don't know much about Glock holsters...or Glocks for that matter, but any quality holster should serve you well. I prefer leather for both IWB and IWB. Check various holster makers' websites.

Found this site which seems useful: http://glockstore.com/

The "FBI Concealment Holster" by Safariland shown on that site is the type holster I prefer.

Suggest you stay away from paddle holsters are they are NOT readily concealable.

Hope this helps...

Be safe.

[noknock]

Originally posted by Lugger007:
noknock,

thanks for a greater in depth reply to talking to cops.
I am new to concealed carry. I would consider my self athletic. Have been doing competitive sports since I could walk. I was a swimmer, so not a big guy @ all and only 22 just under 6ft. What would you recommend the best carry method be.
I was thinking either in the small of my back or ankle.

A 19 is to big for realistic ankle carry, the grip is to long and will stick out and be nearly impossible to get the pant leg over quickly.

So for a 19 you will have to just try the other methods described. Through out the years I've had Beretta's, Glocks, HK, and currently have a SIG 229 for issue gun. I've carried the aforementiond in all different configurations (minus ankle, those are j-frames and small auto such as glock 26/27/30, etc.).

So talking about the small of the back vs. side. Lugger007 according to his post has carried about 11.2 years longer than me. LOL In all seriousness I don't disagree completely with Lugger007. I've been an instructor for a some years now and one thing that I make my guys do with any of the holsters is draw and fire from the seated position. I make them draw and fire across the body as if they have to fire out their driver side window. One thing that one has to consider with in the pants is and I am not trying to offend anyone. . . is body fat. Standing and drawing from MOST IWB holsters becomes more difficult when sitting because on some people a fat role just kind of REALLY conceals the grip of the firearm. I see right handed guys leaning far to their left to expose the grip for a deliberate draw. After practice, some do better than others. Others that gun is so deeply concealed, LOL that in all seriousness they should be carrying on the ankle or at least on a OWB holster that is positioned between their immediate right side and their rear pocket. This slightly carried back position helps conceal a handgun on those with not so thin wastes. If it is a j-frame or bigger, then someone trained to see guns will see the buldge on the side with almost any body shape.

But most people are not trained and thus it doesn't take that much to truly conceal the handgun. As far as getting to your handgun, remember why are you carrying the gun? Are you an agent or detective talking to a banger on the street? Are you joe citizen or off duty LEO with the family going to the mall? The reason you need to know this is because it will help determine just how fast one needs to go for the gun in a typical situation.

If you are not an LEO on duty with back up there or at least on the way, then you need to avoid danger, i.e., be aware of surroundings, read people, etc.

Should you find yourself in a situation where something bad is going down then you should already have your gun drawn. If not, then I don't care if the gun is on your waist in plain sight or on your ankle, the drop is on you and you are in a world of ****.

But if you can create distance and are proficient with your draw from wherever then hopefully you can immediately seek cover while drawing.

The point, ankle carry depending on the situation is no slower than from your gun side. Again, my guys with a seatbelt on and a jacket on, drawing from this position to shoot out the window are beaten hands down by the guys sitting with a seat belt on and a jacket drawing from the ankle.

There are so many what-ifs and variables than can be thrown into the decision that bottom line is anyone that carries must practice the draw enough from all positions, i.e., in a chair, in a car, standing, kneeling, on your butt on the ground, etc. that the draw becomes second nature.

The sweeping of the garmet with the non-shooting hand whether it be a pant leg or a jacket/ t-shirt while establishing a good solid shooting grip should be smooth.

If it is not, I don't carry how you carry, you are at a disadvantage when you do need to get the gun out in a hurry.

Again, just my opinion and you know what the saying is about opinions and rearends. . . LOL

[Wyatt Earp]

Originally posted by Lugger007:
Right now I will be carrying my glock 19 as my ccw. I know this is a disputed and personal opinion, but what would you recommended for my first holster to get comfortable with.
Anyone else with idea's on holsters to get comfortable and used to would be appreciated.
Thanks

Brian

Brian, I just got a Phantom modular holster (made by Raven Concealment Systems) for my M&P9, and short of my full custom leather holsters, it is my most comfortable holster.

The Phantom comes set up as an OWB holster, but with the addition of some very reasonably priced conversion kits it can be turned into an IWB holster with either clips or snap loops or a tuckable IWB (inside the waist) holster.

I strongly recommend one as your first holster for your G19 (excellent choice there, BTW).

I also strongly recommend you get a strong leather belt from The Beltman.

Top shelf holsters and belts will go a long way to making a pistol disappear comfortably. Those who say they get by just fine with cheaper alternatives usually have never tried the best (which doesn't cost all that much more).

[ZO6Vettever]

I have had a 22 Mag for about 35 years and decided to get a CCW and buy another gun to carry. First pick was a 38 SP 5 shot and probably a light weight one. Just didn't trust auto-loaders or myself handeling one. Before I got a snubbie I found myself at an interstate off ramp motel with 5 gangsta looking men in the parking lot that put a chill down my back. No problem, the gangsta look is after all a style and all dressed like that aren't BG's but it told me 5 shots are not enough. I bought a Sigme 9VE, price, hi cap and born in the USA. However after more research I think a 40 would have been a better choice. After the panic the prices should come down and I may get a 40.

[flop-shank]

Run the 9mm, bro. It's a fine cartridge with top notch modern loads.

[Mediumbore]

I've been CCW as part of my profession for 11 years. I will say that asking cops about CCW comes with a caveat. Some don't and some don't care whether they get made. You need to cultivate your source a little longer than just checking for a badge.

Belts: I will recommend a first quality belt like was mentioned previously. I would rather carry a $20 holster on a $70 belt than the other way around. Most good holster makers have a good belt. Figure on getting a belt made in either 1.25" width or 1.5" width. Dress pants will require the narrower width, but if your wardrobe is all jeans and khakis, get the 1.5" first.

In holsters, I will recommend four for the Glock 19, a gun I have a good deal of experience carrying.

OWB: The Galco Fletch if you like a thumb-break design and the DeSantis Model 086 if you prefer open-top. Both fit snug to the body and have a forward cant to prevent the butt from printing to the rear.

IWB: I like the BladeTech IWB because the Kydex keeps it thin and the rubber belt loops really keep it in one place. The other option is the Galco Summer Comfort. It's a good rendition of the Summer Special style of holster. Remember, an IWB will need slightly loose pants to be comfortable.

These are my choices based on personal experience. Other manufacturers make good stuff, even identical versions of the ones I've just mentioned. You can't do this right without jumping in with both feet. Get to it!

[50Meter]

Mediumbore's observation is correct---everyone in law enforcement that I know always recommends belt scabbards. For them, this is no problem, but for those of us who may want to take off our jackets, or do not want to cause a big panic, get shaken down and erroneously arrested for "brandishing", or some such, IWB, pocket, or some other method must be employed. I have seen some use kydex holsters and they can be the slickest things---but I ordered two from BladeTech and couldn't get my guns out---even after releasing the tension screw all the way! Big disappointment, as I've seen people use 'em with their Glocks and they draw like all-get-out. A cop I train with wants me to get rid of my S&Ws and get a Kahr K9. He says this is the only "modern", "sensible" design out there, with DAO and striker mechanism. He loves that gun. Trouble is, it has NEVER worked right and he has to cleverly clear it and tap-rack all the time. Kahr was not able to get it to work for him, so he's gotten so he can clear the gun on a continual basis so smoothly that a casual onlooker doesn't notice he's doing it. He's been in this state of denial for several years. I tried the gun & decided it was just too unreliable---my "old fashioned, out-dated" Smith 3rd generation guns (and revolvers) have never malfunctioned. When I mentioned it, he just says that no gun is 100% perfect & that the key is to be able to deal with problems as they arise. Fair enough, but the only thing I'd use that Kahr for is demonstrating how to deal with such problems---I'd never rely on something like that as a CCW...

[Deltaboy]

Try as many guns as you can and get one that fits you. I carry my 9X18mm Mak more because it fits well to my short round body. I will carry my Sigma as soon as I get a good Holster and belt for it.

[kennyb]

another point to consider as far as checking with law enforcement....in many departments for on duty they carry what is issued...period...in many cases this same weapon is to be carried off duty...some will permit differant weapons for off duty carry if you qualify with it.....the last one issued to me was the beretta 92d...and thats not my choice....off duty i carried my model 36 in an ankle holster...
another point....checking with law enforcement in most cases will limit you to semi-auto's....i do not know of any departments that carry revolvers....and thats sad...
hope this helps!

[badam0112]

IMO the best carry gun is the one that you can comfortably carry everyday. A 5 shot j-frame in your pocket everyday is much better than the semi auto, Fill in the blank here, that is too uncomfortable/heavy for daily carry and locked in your safe. Questions to ask yourself prior to buying.

1) How do I dress for my daily routine?
2) Is deep concealment an option?
3) How much weight can I carry comfortably?
4) Have I narrowed my search to style of handgun?
5) Have I shot this style of handgun?
6) Have I studied how others carry the style of handgun I have narrowed my search to?
7) Does this handgun allow for different styles of carry? Pocket, IWB, OWB, Ankle etc, etc.
8) Have I determined what the average selling price is for the handguns I am considering?

My personal experience is/was that I wanted the firepower/capacity of a sub compact semi auto. What I discovered after the fact and the purchase of a $500 plus Glock 27 and several concealment holsters, was the fact that it was too heavy for daily carry for my standard daily routine and style of dress. IWB was uncomfortable for me and OWB was never even a real option. Ankle carry still printed for me no matter what I tried. Pocket carry became the obvious answer for me. Weight and printing then became the issue. In the end, a 637 j frame more than met the daily need. Later the 642 replaced the 637 because the hammerless version comes out of the pocket snag free everytime. The Glock 27 was traded away at a loss although another one was recently added to the safe for home defense. The bottom line for me is that I spent a lot of $ learning the hard way what doesn't work for me. I did the trial by error purchase of hand guns as well as concealment holsters. I ended up selling most all of these purchases for a loss of taking a beating on trades to try something else. Now don't get me wrong I enjoyed most of the learning experience. But financially I wasn't very efficient getting to my current final solution.