In the film, "The Bridges at Toko-Ri", William Holden's naval pilot is shown with a sheath knife on his vest with the Victory Model .38.

Can anyone ID the commercial knife? I figure that some of you guys own the DVD.

Thanks,

T-Star

I think the knives in the movie, like those for real naval aircrews at the time, were bought individually or with unit funds, from commercial sources.

This was before the military adopted the spin-off of the Marble's Jet Pilot Knife, the one with saw serrations on the back.

I may query Stephen Coonts on his site. But by the Vietnam war, he probably saw mainly the current type knife.

Do we have any naval aviation people here, or their families, who might know about the knives they carried?

That movie was set during the Korean War.

T-Star

A lot bought Randall knives and other Case made hunting knives, i will have to watch the movie now to see what it is.

__________________
Stan

You'll like the movie. Apart from the war action, it has Grace Kelly in it, as Holden's wife.

I think the knife may be a Western or Case. Trying to see the pommel well enough to guess.

The helicopter rescuers had .30 M-1 or M-2 carbines. I think one was played by Mickey Rooney.

T-Star

My Dad flew F-84s in Korea. He carried a Western in the shin pocket of his flight suit mainly to stick (deflate) a prematurely inflated life raft. Apparantly there is not enough room in the cockpit for a blown up life raft and a pilot. He said he bought it in Japan, probably on his way over. It accompanied him on many big game hunts since. I guess I'll get it when he is done with it.
He has a love hate feeling toward that movie. Loves it because it was accurate.....hate it because it was true!
OZ

YouTube - "THE BRIDGES AT TOKO-RI" - After Hitting the Second Target


Look at this for the seconds surrounding 00:27 and 00:47 in this clip. The knife has a hole in the butt cap for a wrist thong.
It has a full guard. I think it's a Western bowie. The second pilot (CAG) seems to have a Marble's.

This is some excellent aerial warfare footage. Some may be real combat film.

T-Star

Not trying to hijack your thread, but it made me think of a question: was the USN SAR chopper pilot an enlisted man, or a Warrant Officer? I don't think he was an officer, and I remember at one point seeing him (MIckey Roonie) in what appeared to be an enlisted man's (Petty Officer?) overcoat and hat.

Thanks,

Dave

The knife Holden was wearing looks like a KA Bar Finn Hunter the larger of the two sizes. The smaller one being called the Little Finn.

+1 on one identity, and possibly a +2. CAG's knife is positively a Marble's, most likely an IDEAL, 6" or longer blade. Brubaker's blade is most likely a Western, most likely a Bowie pattern. That's my best guess from the short clip and the follow up clips.

Class III

I'm going with a Western "Shark": Double guard, stacked leather handle with spacers and aluminum butt with laynard hole.

The movie was based on a true story of a bridge at, "Koto Ri." The carrier was the USS Princeton, then, 1950 ’51, designated CV 37. I served in the Marine Guard detachment in 1961 '62. In about 1996, I attended a reunion of Princeton veterans in Las Vegas and met the real helicopter pilot. He was wearing the green top hat at the reunion and he was as revered then as he was in the movie.

I haven’t been to a reunion since 2000 and have no current contacts in the association. However, there is a lot of information available should you do a search on the USS Princeton. I’m sure you can find someone to answer any question you may have.

Dave-

He was an enlisted man. I remember being surprised by that. I didn't know the US had ever had any enisted pilots.
Some other nations have; may still.

Some of the top Jap pilots in WW II were enlisted men, petty officers. The RAF and the Luftwaffe also had some enlisted (NCO) pilots.

The guess about the Western "shark" knife is right on, I think. If not, I'm pretty sure that it's a similar Western pattern that I saw being used by a fellow airman in the 1960's. That one had an eight -inch blade, but the "shark" model was shorter. Supposedly, Western felt that men at sea could use the knife to stab a shark if the ship sank or plane crashed. I'm sure they also saw it as a general purpose combat model.

Brubaker was a lawyer from Denver when not on Navy duty. Western Cutlery was in Boulder, so it's logical that he'd have bought a knife made in Colorado.

Movie prop men being what they are, that's probably a coincidence, though. I doubt the prop buyer had even read the book.

If CAG's knife isn't a Marble's like the Ideal, it may be the Remington RH-36 copy of that knife. After Remington quit making knives, Pal bought their patterns and made them for awhile.

Both knives look very authentic for US pilots in the 1950-52 time frame. I'm hoping that they also carried scout type pocketknives.

It's a pity that Navy aircrews then weren't given better handgun training. Even now, most pilots don't take their sidearms seriously enough.

On the off-chance that anyone cares which knife I'd carry as a pilot now, it's a close call between the Fallkniven S-1 and the Randall Model 5. I think both will fit the sheath on the survival vest. For less money, the Buck No. 119 Special is a good knife, too.

I've tried to see that knife a couple of times as I watched the DVD. I actually saw it better on YouTube!

T-Star

Dave,
The Navy had a long tradition of enlisted pilots going back to before WWII. "Flying Chiefs," i.e., Chief Petty Officers, officially called Naval Aviation Pilots (NAP), flew various types of aircraft. In "The Bridges at Toko-Ri," Mickey Rooney plays Chief Petty Officer Mike Forney, a Sikorsky HO3S-1 (R-5) helicopter pilot, with his crewman AD2 Nestor played by Earl Holliman.

Gboling, Texas Star, and Safearm,

Thanks for your responses. I was in the Army and don't know a lot about USN rank structures. If I recall, I think the Navy is the only branch of the U.S. military that doesn't use Warrant Officers, but I could be wrong. Of course Mike Forney would have to be a Chief (non-com), he was to intelligent and hard working to be anything but...har har, Gentlemen, please let an old buck sgt. get his digs in - no disrespect intended.

Regards,

Dave

I served in the Navy Reserve before joining the Air National Guard. The OIC of the ordnance shop where I was assigned was a Warrant Officer. We had a number of WO in the squadron (Patrol Squadron 90, NAS Glenview, IL-now closed). At the time (1973-75), there was a career path for enlisted members to get to a commission. The eligibility zone for Warrant Officer was E-6/7, and for a Limited Duty Officer it was WO2/3. NAS Glenview was also home to the 4th Marine Air Wing (Reserve), and there were a number of Marine WO assigned there.
After I joined the Air Force/Air National Guard, I learned that the Air Force was the only service without Warrant Officers, although I did meet one of the last serving AF Warrant Officers once at Rickenbacker ANGB, Ohio.

Intresting observation about guns and Pilots. In Vietnam, most Helicopter Pilots who flew in Combat had a pistol and a rifle slung over the back of the seat. Most carried a M2 Carbine or a M16A1. I did see several in the 101st Aviation Brigade with Grease Guns and some with CAR-15s.

I found that most pilots became intensely aware of their lack of firepower when they had to put boots on the ground with just a pistol and some of Uncle Ho's Finest Rice Burners around.....

Rule 303