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  #51  
Old 05-08-2010, 10:56 AM
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I've had the odd pre 64 70 over the years but was always a Rem 700 guy for my hunting rifles.

That changed in the early 90's when I bought a .30-06 pre 64 70 for $350 at the Winter Bozeman Show. (Ser# 19210) It came with Leupold 2 piece bases already mounted so threw a 30-9 on it and was amazed at the sub 1" groups with about ANY factory ammo I chose to fire!! THAT gun started my love affair with M-70's.

I've also got a .300 H&H Ser # 228590 thats in virtually unfired condition. That gun was a gift from an old Trapshooting friend after his death. He also gave me a pre 27 in 8 3/8" that was his "truck pistol" on the Ranch.

He bought most of his guns in "twos" . One for him, one for his son. His son tragically never lived to be old enough to shoot the gun so he saved it over the years.

FN in MT
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  #52  
Old 05-08-2010, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman View Post
I've heard these models extolled off and on for years, and now you folks almost have me wanting one. But could someone take a few minutes and explain to this ignorant fellow why they are so special?

Andy
I can't speak for everyone, but here are the reasons I love the old Model 70s:

1. Hand craftsmanship. These rifles were in fact virtually hand made. This was prior to CNC machining and metal injection molding. If the parts didn't fit quite right, a highly trained, skilled and experienced workman mated them until they did, and perfectly. Careful boring, chambering and barrel straightening, all by eye and by hand. The stock was fitted to the barreled action carefully. Such caring hand labor is not available today. Not only would it be prohibitively expensive in labor cost today, but the skill of those workmen died with them.

2. Controlled round feeding. No chance of a double feed on a short stroke. The round slipped up under the massive Mauser-style non-rotating extractor very quickly in the forward stroke. You could load a round into the chamber with the rifle canted or even upside down. This translates into reliability.

3. Detailing. The stock was hand-finished and hand checkered. The bluing was perfect. Good old-fashioned quality control was exercised. The rifle was checked out thoroughly, proofed and test fired for accuracy. No rifle left the factory unless it was perfect.

4. Accuracy. It's a rare Model 70 that will not put all its shots into 1 inch at 100 yards with most factory ammunition. With handloads it will do even better.

5. Accessories. Because it was the de facto standard for bolt action hunting rifles for so many years, scope bases, mounts and other add-ons were and are readily available.

6. That magnificent trigger. It was simplicity itself, easily adjustable by the user, and when locked down, it didn't vary from that point on. Like breaking a thin glass rod when squeezed. This alone contributed mightily to accuracy.

7. The ahead-of-its-time safety lever. It had three positions: Fire, locked but allowing bolt movement, and locked up solid with no bolt movement allowed. It was simple, easily manipulated under a scope, and observable. It's been widely copied on expensive prestige rifles such as the Kimber today.

8. Easy takedown and maintenance. It was as easy to clean as any battle rifle. The bolt could be disassembled without tools in the field. It was rare when a part failed, but if one did, parts were and still are available everywhere.

9. Factory options. If you wanted a deluxe model, you got it. If you wanted it chambered in .458 OMG, you got it. If you wanted it engraved, you got it. Special stock dimensions and configuration? You got it. The factory would lean over backward to please its customers. Some of those old special-manufacture rifles are worth fortunes today.

10. Operability and ergonomics. The action is exceedingly smooth, hand-honed at the factory, and gets smoother with use. The bolt handle knob is positioned right over the trigger for quick grasping on repeat shots. The magazine contents can be dumped quickly with the press of a button to the rear of the magazine. The safety is positioned for quick operation and operates silently. The sights come to the eye easily on mounting the rifle to the shoulder. The stock is hefty enough for a firm grasp, yet slim enough to save weight.

11. Classic lines. The rifle, taken as a whole, with all its combined features and lines, was just plain beautiful. From the sweep of its front sight, the bolstered rear sight, the stock, the matte-finished receiver contrasting with the polished blue barrel, the swept-back bolt handle, right down to the buttplate or recoil pad, the rifle was a looker. It was a Ferrari in a garage full of Ford sedans.

12. Pride of ownership. The Model 70 was known as "The rifleman's rifle" for good reason. There wasn't a gun expert from the 1930s through 1964 that didn't praise this rifle. It was the standard by which all others were judged. Sure, there have been other excellent rifles since. I own two Remington 700s, and I like them fine. But the one sporting centerfire rifle in my rack that I love and will always be able to rely on is my pre-'64 Winchester Model 70.

I hope this helps to explain the mystique of this magnificent rifle.

John
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  #53  
Old 05-08-2010, 12:43 PM
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Thanks, John, for that very thorough explanation.

Now where can I get one?

Andy
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Old 05-08-2010, 01:20 PM
ElToro ElToro is offline
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there is something just very... as the French say " I dont know what" about them. i just passed on a pre 64 in .264 for under 1k recently. I went back a few weeks later and its gone of course


Quote:
Originally Posted by PALADIN85020 View Post
I can't speak for everyone, but here are the reasons I love the old Model 70s:

1. Hand craftsmanship. These rifles were in fact virtually hand made. This was prior to CNC machining and metal injection molding. If the parts didn't fit quite right, a highly trained, skilled and experienced workman mated them until they did, and perfectly. Careful boring, chambering and barrel straightening, all by eye and by hand. The stock was fitted to the barreled action carefully. Such caring hand labor is not available today. Not only would it be prohibitively expensive in labor cost today, but the skill of those workmen died with them.

2. Controlled round feeding. No chance of a double feed on a short stroke. The round slipped up under the massive Mauser-style non-rotating extractor very quickly in the forward stroke. You could load a round into the chamber with the rifle canted or even upside down. This translates into reliability.

3. Detailing. The stock was hand-finished and hand checkered. The bluing was perfect. Good old-fashioned quality control was exercised. The rifle was checked out thoroughly, proofed and test fired for accuracy. No rifle left the factory unless it was perfect.

4. Accuracy. It's a rare Model 70 that will not put all its shots into 1 inch at 100 yards with most factory ammunition. With handloads it will do even better.

5. Accessories. Because it was the de facto standard for bolt action hunting rifles for so many years, scope bases, mounts and other add-ons were and are readily available.

6. That magnificent trigger. It was simplicity itself, easily adjustable by the user, and when locked down, it didn't vary from that point on. Like breaking a thin glass rod when squeezed. This alone contributed mightily to accuracy.

7. The ahead-of-its-time safety lever. It had three positions: Fire, locked but allowing bolt movement, and locked up solid with no bolt movement allowed. It was simple, easily manipulated under a scope, and observable. It's been widely copied on expensive prestige rifles such as the Kimber today.

8. Easy takedown and maintenance. It was as easy to clean as any battle rifle. The bolt could be disassembled without tools in the field. It was rare when a part failed, but if one did, parts were and still are available everywhere.

9. Factory options. If you wanted a deluxe model, you got it. If you wanted it chambered in .458 OMG, you got it. If you wanted it engraved, you got it. Special stock dimensions and configuration? You got it. The factory would lean over backward to please its customers. Some of those old special-manufacture rifles are worth fortunes today.

10. Operability and ergonomics. The action is exceedingly smooth, hand-honed at the factory, and gets smoother with use. The bolt handle knob is positioned right over the trigger for quick grasping on repeat shots. The magazine contents can be dumped quickly with the press of a button to the rear of the magazine. The safety is positioned for quick operation and operates silently. The sights come to the eye easily on mounting the rifle to the shoulder. The stock is hefty enough for a firm grasp, yet slim enough to save weight.

11. Classic lines. The rifle, taken as a whole, with all its combined features and lines, was just plain beautiful. From the sweep of its front sight, the bolstered rear sight, the stock, the matte-finished receiver contrasting with the polished blue barrel, the swept-back bolt handle, right down to the buttplate or recoil pad, the rifle was a looker. It was a Ferrari in a garage full of Ford sedans.

12. Pride of ownership. The Model 70 was known as "The rifleman's rifle" for good reason. There wasn't a gun expert from the 1930s through 1964 that didn't praise this rifle. It was the standard by which all others were judged. Sure, there have been other excellent rifles since. I own two Remington 700s, and I like them fine. But the one sporting centerfire rifle in my rack that I love and will always be able to rely on is my pre-'64 Winchester Model 70.

I hope this helps to explain the mystique of this magnificent rifle.

John
what he said !
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  #55  
Old 05-08-2010, 03:56 PM
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In the late 1960's, when I was a high school kid, Dad collected all the M70 "slick barrels" (no sights). They were sold before Dad died in 93. Through the years Dad and I probably had 30-40 M70s besides the slick barrels. I decided against "collecting" years ago, but I still have three, all nice shooters from the early 50's. 30-06 std, 270, std, 308 fwt. Selling a bunch of 70's helped finance my kids college and some of my target pistols. Years ago Dad bench fired a 3" group at 500 yards with a well worn 270 std. We had a few 54's too. One early 54 I had (std 30-06) with a peep would shoot 1" groups at 100. (I had good eyes in the 1970's). Probably the worst move of all was Dad finding an in the box, in the grease 358 fwt, and he shot it. Also Dad hogged out under the barrel and filled the forearm with epoxy and lead shot. That little 358 kicked like a mule.
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  #56  
Old 05-08-2010, 04:11 PM
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I've never understood why one gun writer says that the M-70 is inaccurate. Maybe he's judging them by the standards of benchrest target rifles? As hunting rifles, they often do fine.

But I do think that current M-70's, across the board, are more consistent. I wouldn't trade my 1992-made Featherweight for a pre-'64. Still, a Super Grade M-70 of the old style is a beautful rifle. The current stocks, though, are more sylish, I think. Even Jack O'Connor would admire the checkering on the Featherweight. That would be prohibitively expensive if done by hand. It looks like the hand-cut checkering on his Al Biesen custom M-'70's.

T-Star
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  #57  
Old 05-08-2010, 07:29 PM
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Sometime in the late 70ís, a cow-worker told me he had a pre 64 model 70 that he wanted to sell. He thought it was a 300 something. My first thought was it might be a 300 Savage. It turned out to be a 300 Win Mag.

He said he wanted $250.00 for it. I told him it was worth more but he didnít care. That was what he had in it and that was all he wanted. It had a low power Weaver scope on it. It was in almost new condition. I did buy it and still have it. I have never fired it and probably wonít.

It will go to my grandson one of these days.
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  #58  
Old 05-09-2010, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamden View Post
In the late 1960's, when I was a high school kid, Dad collected all the M70 "slick barrels" (no sights). They were sold before Dad died in 93. Through the years Dad and I probably had 30-40 M70s besides the slick barrels. I decided against "collecting" years ago, but I still have three, all nice shooters from the early 50's. 30-06 std, 270, std, 308 fwt. Selling a bunch of 70's helped finance my kids college and some of my target pistols. Years ago Dad bench fired a 3" group at 500 yards with a well worn 270 std. We had a few 54's too. One early 54 I had (std 30-06) with a peep would shoot 1" groups at 100. (I had good eyes in the 1970's). Probably the worst move of all was Dad finding an in the box, in the grease 358 fwt, and he shot it. Also Dad hogged out under the barrel and filled the forearm with epoxy and lead shot. That little 358 kicked like a mule.
Hamden, your father and mine had someting in common, my Dad amazed many people with 500 yard baseball size groups and dead deer at 500 yards. I have that standard in 270. Dad was the guy they sent out to neutralize German snipers. He learned it in North Africa.
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  #59  
Old 05-09-2010, 11:16 PM
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Here's a 300 H&H that I re-stocked from a block many years ago.





Tim
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Old 05-10-2010, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wraco View Post
Pre-64 Model 70's and pre-64 Model 12's have had my admiration for a quite a spell. It seems to run in cycles; pre-64 M 70's. M12's and early S&W revolvers and maybe the odd Colt.

Currently I'm dealing on a 2nd owner 1955, 220 Swift with a long tube scope. The barrel and throat are like new so he wants plenty for it. $1600. Waiting for more pictures and info.

Roger Rule's book, "The Rifleman's Rifle", is a great source of knowledge on the M70.

My pre-64 M 70's consist of:

- 1940 30 Gov't 06
- 1951 30-06
- 1953 30-06
- 1953 270 Win
- 1952 257 Robts.
- 1952 300 H&H mag
- 1959 338 Win mag
- 1959 375 H&H mag
- 1959 308 Win fwt.
- and their Grand Pappy: 1928 Model 54, 30 Gov't 06

Only have one picture on the H/D, but here it is:

1952, 300 H&H magnum



Regards:
Rod

,,,

Since my last post I picked up a 1954 M70 in 220 Swift with a 15x Lyman Super TargetSpot scope. I sold my 1959 F/W, 308, and bought a 1953 F/W, 308.

1953 F/W 308



1954-55 220 Swift







Regards:
Rod

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  #61  
Old 05-10-2010, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAgnes View Post
Here's a 300 H&H that I re-stocked from a block many years ago.





Tim
Tim, it looks like you turned the patter over and go the cheek piece on the wrong side. Just kidding, beautiful stock job.
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:47 AM
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Default Got my grail M-70

While prowling my local pawn, gun, reloading, and payday loan store for .38/.357 dies, I spied what appeared to be a model 70. I went and picked the rifle up off the rack and sure enough it was a pre 64 in the only one of 2 (potentially 3) calibers I truly "had" to have in a model 70. A .270 made in '58 or '59 factory drilled and tapped for mounts listed for $650. I left it overnight with the promise if it was still there after lunch the next day I would take it home. I offered him $550 cash out the door and took it home that afternoon. I need to lighten the trigger pull up, which apparently will require me to loosen two 1/4" to get it down to about 3.5lbs. I am currently in the hunt for a period correct scope and mounts to make it into my Jack O'Connor rifle. It has battle scars and marks etc that take it out of the collector realm, but that's what made it more appealing to someone like me who plans to hunt with it and use it not just stare at it in the safe. I'll include a few pics for ya'lls enjoyment.
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/a...0/DSC03242.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/a...0/DSC03244.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/a...0/DSC03247.jpg
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Old 06-11-2010, 04:04 PM
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kscardsfan: I have an absolutely pristine 1955 Weaver KV (El Paso) that you might be interested in.

Question: I want to put a Harris Bipod on my 1952 Model 70 but for the life of me I can't figure out how it would be attached to the fore end sling swival screw hole. Came with factory sling swivel stud with intregal sling loop. Help!!!
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:04 PM
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I bought two 70's from older gentlemen I knew, one was a standard
grade 30-06 from 1949 and the other was a Super Grade '06 from
1950 with a B&L scope in adjustable mounts. Both were in excellent
original condition. I traded a Win. model 12 16 ga. with a 30" barrel
and solid rib for a Transition .270 Model 70 from 1947 in exc. condition
at a gun show.
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Old 06-21-2010, 09:53 PM
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I currently have two Pre-64 Model 70's, a 1937 standard grade .375 H&H Magnum, and a 1954 standard grade .30-'06. Below are some images of the .375 H&H Magnum. It has a Lyman No. 48 WJS receiver sight, Lyman No. 6 folding leaf rear sight, as well as a Griffin & Howe quick release scope mount with a Lyman Alaskan scope. The barrel on this rifle is a heavy target weight, known in collector circles as a "straight taper."









Jared

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Old 06-22-2010, 12:45 AM
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Does anyone know why they had that bump in the barrel where they mounted the rear sight? Seems like that would really be hard to manufacture and would play hell with barrel harmonics etc.
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Old 06-22-2010, 01:52 PM
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Does anyone know why they had that bump in the barrel where they mounted the rear sight? Seems like that would really be hard to manufacture and would play hell with barrel harmonics etc.
On the older guns that have it, that boss accepts the front mounting screw that attaches the barreled action to the stock. There are three; at that point, one forward of the magazine, and one back of the trigger guard.
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Old 06-22-2010, 03:08 PM
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jphendren, bet that .375 will sure get your attention at
the shooting bench!!
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Old 06-22-2010, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALADIN85020 View Post
On the older guns that have it, that boss accepts the front mounting screw that attaches the barreled action to the stock. There are three; at that point, one forward of the magazine, and one back of the trigger guard.
Still seems like it would be much thougher to profile on the lathe than just a straight tube with express sights soldered on. I haven't had a chance to shoot mine yet, but I am hoping to next time I have days off and can get home.
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:48 AM
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Leonard, very nice rifle. Just out of curiosity a 416 what? There were only one period 416 for a pre '64, the only one that really come to mind is the Rigby which I don't think will fit in the Winchester action. While I realize it doesn't have to be a period cartridge. The 416 wildcat started hitting in the early '70 such as the Taylor.

Of course now days we have an abundance of 416s; Weatherby, Remington, Ruger, A-Square, etc. All except the Weatherby pretty much replicate the Rigby ballistics on varying action lengths.

Cheers,
Sam
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:55 AM
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Sam,

The only thing pre-64 on the gun is the bolt and receiver. It is a 416 Remington. You are correct a Rigby will not fit in a 375 length action.

I have used both 416 Remington and Rigby on large game and anything doing 2300 fps has plenty of penetration. What I like about the 416 Remington is that it is much faster as it is a shorter action. The pre 64 action is my favorite and the most classic looking.

Some of the early 416's like the Taylor I believe are based on 458 brass and operate at a very high pressure, the longer 375 case or cylindrical brass make for a better cartridge.
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Old 06-23-2010, 11:26 AM
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Thanks for the info Leonard, I'm a 416 fan as well, however I chose the Weatherby. I was on the fence when the Remington and Weatherby came about in the late 80's, but settled on the Weatherby. The Rigby at the time the Remington and Weatherby was released was had to find ammunition for unless you reload. The resurection of the 416 has sparked a lot of interest in these cartridges, including some new wildcats. I wish I had the extra cash to go spend a month in the bush, but it's just not probable.

I would likely look at something a little different to hunt Africa, I like the Lott a great deal, but a 500 on the Weatherby case (500 A-Square) is something I've been looking at too. It would be an easy conversion on an existing Mark V. I too am a fan of big case cartridges, thus my choice of the Weatherby.

Again very nice rifle!!

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Old 06-23-2010, 03:00 PM
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What is the availibility of the other .416 ammo if the airline loses your ammo, or you need more than expected? Is the original Rigby ammo easily found in the African hunting countries?

I definitely would avoid wildcats, for the ammo supply issue.

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Old 06-23-2010, 06:21 PM
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The 416 is readily available from what I have read on the subject, specifically the Rem and Rigby. The Rigby was near extiction when Remington released thier 416 in '88 and Weatherby in '89. However since then Hornady has resurected the Rigby by offering factory ammunition.

I understand the 416 is a popular cartridge with PHs, specifically the Rem for the reason that Leonard mentioned above. It's quite a handy rifle in that caliber. It's unfortunate that it has become a somewhat obscrue round in the bigbore community. Remington produces brass for this round on an irregular schedule which makes getting brass/loaded rounds difficult at times. Those that I know with this round tend to hoard brass for this reason.

The Rigby has grown in popularity since the early '90s, As mentioned it is a large case so pressures will be lower for any given charge to reach the 400 gr bullet to 2400 fps compared to rounds like the Rem/Ruger/Taylor. Likewise for the Weatherby round since it is simply a belted Rigby case.

Weatherby will push the envelope as with their other cartridges, factory ammunition advertises 2700 fps. The Rigby has the case capacity for this but it has been proven in the field that the additional speed isn't required...At least that's what they say.

I can't imagine not being able to find the Remington or Rigby round when you decide to cross the pond.

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Sam
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:56 PM
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Shorty, I have hunted with a 500 A Square in a rifle Frank Wells re did and re-stocked. I am not an A Square fan. Fred Wells and some others had wildcat 50 calibers on the 460 case in my opinion 50 caliber puts the big 460 case to better use than a 45 caliber. I used a 707 grain Barnes super solid the recoil while not noticed during a hunting scenario is very severe . The 50 caliber x 460 can be rated as a stopping rifle.

Most of my big game hunting was with a Jeffrey 475 # 2 which was a hammer. I feel the 416s are a minimum but effective big game hunting round. I would not hesitate to do a one caliber one rifle safari with a 416 far superior to the 375.
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Old 06-24-2010, 04:44 PM
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I'd feel a little silly shooting a springbok with a .416...what a pity that it's so expensive to take more than one rifle now.
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Old 06-24-2010, 07:20 PM
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Thanks for the info Leonard, it's always nice to chat with people that have the practicle experience. I can't say I'm an A-Square fan at all, even when I was a kid I had an affection for the larger cases that Weatherby presented with the 378 and 460.

I remember seeing the 475 A&M Mag in a book wanting one, this too was based on the belted 378/460 case. This cartridge has always been a wildcat since it was developed by an Arizona rifle company, Atkinson & Marquart. While I think the published ballistics were exagerated it sparked a love for the big guns.

I've always wondered why Weatherby never released their own 500. Early on the Weatherby cartridges got some bad press simply for the fact that bullets of the era where never meant to go as fast a Roy was pushing them. However that is much less of a problem today with premium bullets. I think Weatherby could have made a big dent in the 500/510 market with an honest to goodness stopping rifle based on the 378 case.

I also believe that the 378 is too much of a good thing, A good friend has one, while recoil on it is stiff it's certainly managable. It's a little sharper recoil than the 416 and 460. While I do believe that Roy got the 375 that was initially introduced perfect. Another rifle on my short list, 375 bee.

Texas Star, shooting smaller animals with the medium/big bores doesn't damage much meet, simply for the fact that small game doesn't have the bone structure to make the round do what it's supposed to, expand. Shooting Southern whitetails with a 416 leaves a LOT of meat.

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Sam
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Old 06-24-2010, 07:21 PM
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I'd feel a little silly shooting a springbok with a .416...what a pity that it's so expensive to take more than one rifle now.
Not as silly as you would look shooting at a buffalo with a 270
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Old 06-24-2010, 07:44 PM
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Sold my 1952, M-70 a few months ago. Its been turned into 3 pistols now. I am through shooting animals, at least the ones with 4 legs. I also just sold a Paul Jagger built, 1909 Mauser in .35 Ack Imp. Its turned into a few more pistols. I now only have revolvers in my safe.
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Old 11-22-2010, 06:27 PM
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I am new to this forum. I am from Australia and have been a pre 64 M70 fan for some years. Only have two thought, both featherweights in .270 Win and .308 Win but would love to get more.

These rifles are rare here and both mine were imported from USA at various times in the past, when importing these rifles (or any guns for that matter) was a lot easier. Got my .270 in 2005 and it is a real gem.

I took both Tahr and Chamois on a New Zealand alpine hunt earlier this year with the 270.



I would like to join forums dedicated to these rifles. Anyone know any?

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Old 11-22-2010, 07:55 PM
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Default M-70 Win

I've had several mostly in the pre-war vintage mainly in 22 hornet to include a hornet carbine.Now I have a 250 Savage Supergrade made in 49,which is just about at the end of the line for that configuration.
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:41 AM
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But could someone take a few minutes and explain to this ignorant fellow why they are so special?
Paladin85020 did a good job of laying out the details that most M-70 lovers like. But it's really the sum of all of that. In the pre-64 Model 70, a lot of design elements coincide in a way that is pretty much perfect.

Kinda like the S&W N-frame, the claw hammer, and the Ace comb.


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Old 11-23-2010, 01:47 AM
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I would like to join forums dedicated to these rifles. Anyone know any?
Try 24hourcampfire.com. It's not a Model 70 forum per se, but there are a lot of knowledgable folks there.


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Old 11-23-2010, 05:32 PM
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Have 2 pre 64 mod 70's.Don't have a reference to match s/n to date of manufacture.Hope somebody here can help.First is in 300 H&H with straight comb stock and checkered metal butt plate s/n 4058xx.The other is in 375 H&H with monte carlo stock and solid red Winchester pad s/n 4928xx.Thanks in advance for any help.Was pleased to see this thread in the forum.Was worried I was the only one who liked S&Ws and pre 64 mod 70's.
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Old 11-23-2010, 08:27 PM
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I only have one,,a pre-64 Carbine in 250 Savage.
I don't recall the year/mfg.
I've never shot it,,doesn't look like anyone else has either.

They're nice rifles but I tend to go for Mauser and Mannlicher sporters when it comes to bolt rifles.
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:31 PM
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Have 2 pre 64 mod 70's.Don't have a reference to match s/n to date of manufacture.Hope somebody here can help.First is in 300 H&H with straight comb stock and checkered metal butt plate s/n 4058xx.The other is in 375 H&H with monte carlo stock and solid red Winchester pad s/n 4928xx.Thanks in advance for any help.Was pleased to see this thread in the forum.Was worried I was the only one who liked S&Ws and pre 64 mod 70's.
This is from an internet document I copied a couple of years ago. It seems right, but I don't know the source.

4058xx = 1957
4928xx = 1960
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:23 PM
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Thanks Armadillo for the quick reply.Was thinking about selling the 300 H&H but because of this thread will keep it and start shooting it and the 375 H&H again.Thanks again for the help.
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Old 01-13-2011, 09:41 PM
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I just picked up a 1954 Model 70 in a .220 swift with an Unertl 12X scope and Unertl rings. I know of the potential of "burning" out the barrels with the swift round but this gun has very little wear and my gunsmith said it looked pristine. Any thoughts on what I should have paid?
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:24 PM
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I have one I hope someone here could explain. I purchased this from a trustworthy man I've known for years. He says he ordered this rifle new for his friend in the late 50's. He bought it back from the friend's widow after his death and sold it to me. The gun is supposedly unaltered, and appears so to me, as it is in immaculate condition. It is a Featherweight 243, and the serial number is 113xxx. That's too early for this configuration!!! Could Winchester have had some actions laid back and used them at a later date? Can you get a letter on them like an S&W?
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Old 01-14-2011, 11:44 AM
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Hi all, I have a pre 64 model 70 in .243. Coupla questions: it has a heavy barrel with no sights.Is it a varmint or a target? It shoots about 2&1/2" groups at 100 yards. The rifle is in very good condition and I feel it should do better. Accurizing tips would be appreciated. thanks Norm
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Old 01-14-2011, 01:57 PM
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Are you sure its the gun? I know, it might be a little insulting coming from a stranger. But its a fair question. The next question is what brand and bullet weight are you using? Do you belong to a range, or do you know any bench rest shooters? Buy a box of 2 different brands and bullet weight ammo (WalMart for under $20 each). Then have a different shooter take them to the range on a nice day for shooting. See what kind of groups they can turn in.

What it does is eliminate the biggest variables, the shooter and the ammo. If it still underperforms, its the gun. If it closes the groups down to the 1" area, its you.
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Old 01-14-2011, 02:33 PM
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That featherweight I posted will shoot cloverleafs at 100 yards with 100 grain factory Remington ammo. I's suggest you try a different scope and make sure your mounts are tight before going any further.
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:29 PM
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I know a young man who was given a pre-64 Model 70 in .300 H&H Magnum by his grandfather. His grandfather had bought the rifle in the late 40s or early 50s, and he took really good care of it. The rifle looks new. The young man doesn't really like .300 H&H Magnum. He would rather have one in .300 Winchester Magnum. I have offered to buy him a new Winchester (or Browning, Remington, etc) in .300 Winchester Magnum in trade for his .300 H&H Magnum. He is thinking about it. I have absolutely no use for a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in .300 H&H Magnum, but I would be more than happy to get it.
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:03 PM
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Are you sure its the gun? I know, it might be a little insulting coming from a stranger. But its a fair question. The next question is what brand and bullet weight are you using? Do you belong to a range, or do you know any bench rest shooters? Buy a box of 2 different brands and bullet weight ammo (WalMart for under $20 each). Then have a different shooter take them to the range on a nice day for shooting. See what kind of groups they can turn in.

What it does is eliminate the biggest variables, the shooter and the ammo. If it still underperforms, its the gun. If it closes the groups down to the 1" area, its you.
Mr. Burg,
I have a ruger no. 1 that will shoot bug butt groups at 100 yards so I don't think it's me. I gotta admit though that would be my first question also. I think I will try some real light bullets. My thinking is maybe the twist would be favorable to them. Since it is (I believe) a varmint model.
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:24 PM
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I have five of them:

1. 1946 .300 H&H has engraving and silver and gold floor plate.

2. 1955 .300 H&H unmolested in about 95%.

3. 1957 .30-06 was cutomized around the 70's and rechambered to
.300 WM. It came in a custom stock with gold plated floor plate
and trigger guard. Since the stock had a presentation plaque
embeded to the previous owner and the bottom metal was
worn. I had Robar refinish the bottom metal and put it all in a
McMillian stock.

.4 1961 .243 this one is a full custom from Yost-Bonitz. It came in a
custom laminated stock with heavy SS fluted barrel. I found this
one at Cabelas, for the price I had to buy it.

.5 1952 .308 featherweight unmolested 80%
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Old 01-15-2011, 04:41 PM
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I have one I hope someone here could explain. I purchased this from a trustworthy man I've known for years. He says he ordered this rifle new for his friend in the late 50's. He bought it back from the friend's widow after his death and sold it to me. The gun is supposedly unaltered, and appears so to me, as it is in immaculate condition. It is a Featherweight 243, and the serial number is 113xxx. That's too early for this configuration!!! Could Winchester have had some actions laid back and used them at a later date? Can you get a letter on them like an S&W?
SO, does anyone have any ideas about this rifle? Thanks, Greg
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Old 01-15-2011, 04:51 PM
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SO, does anyone have any ideas about this rifle? Thanks, Greg
Greg,

Remove the barreled action from the stock. The date of manufacture should be stamped on the barrel underneath, right next to the receiver.

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Old 01-15-2011, 10:00 PM
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I did not know that. Thanks.
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Old 01-18-2011, 11:51 PM
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Norm, for best accuracy with the M 70, the front and rear guard screws should be tight, but the one in the middle, just behind the magazine, should be fairly loose. Also if yours has a screw from the stock into the barrel, it should be loose. These things help the accuracy.
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:47 AM
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The date stamp on the barrel only represents the year that the barrel was made. It may or may not be when the rifle left Winchester, only the serial number will give an idea as to date of manufacture. That is not totally reliable as some numbers may have lagged behind true chronological order.
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