I was just musing over the 66th anniversary of D-Day today, and in particular the role of our Airborne Divisions in that fracas. Being dropped in the dark over enemy territory without a very clear idea of exactly where you are seems to me to be a pretty hazardous undertaking. I was also thinking on one unique arm that was specially designed for the paratroopers. This was the M1A1 folding-stock "paratrooper" carbine issued to the 101st and 82nd Airborne Divisions. This arm was used in every European Airborne operation of the war. The 101st and the 82nd were the only outfits getting them, although I understand that the 101st gave about a dozen to forward observers of the 90th Division as a reward for their help in directing precision artillery fire on the enemy. I found very few pictures on the net of these carbines in use, but here are a few.

First, note the officer getting ready for the D-day drop. He has an M1A1 attached to his belt, using one of the also-unique canvas "holsters" designed specifically for this arm.



You have to look closely at this next shot. This was taken shortly after D-day. The officer at the far left, interrogating German prisoners, has an M1A1 carbine in his right hand.



This next picture is about the clearest I could find on the M1A1 carbine in combat. It shows a group of 101st Airborne soldiers riding in a commandeered German kubelwagen. The guy sitting on the right fender of the vehicle clearly has an M1A1 carbine at the ready. Look closely at the guy directly behind him, partially obscured. He's evidently carrying an M3 or M3A1 "grease gun."



I was lucky enough to have found a G.I.-original M1A1 quite a number of years ago (1970, when they were not that uncommon). This is an Inland gun (of course, only Inland made the M1A1), with a serial number reflecting manufacture in 1943, in a correct block for the M1A1. It has been upgraded after the war with the later adjustable rear sight, rotary safety, and bayonet lug.



Today, genuine M1A1 carbines are scarce and quite valuable, a disappearing footnote to the weapons of World War II. Modern reproductions have been made, but there is no comparison to having one that might have been there during the war. I'm glad to have an example. Anyone else have one of these interesting weapons?

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

That's a great gun! Had one about 30 years ago. Traded it toward a DWM Artillery Luger. That's gone now too! Ah well,so many guns,so little time.
f.t.

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South Carolina-God's country

I have seen only one picture of a GI holding an M1A1. There is a mystique
about "Airborne", as there is about anything "USMC" from WWII. The fact that there are so few photographs of them in the hands of troops speaks to their rarity and infrequent issue. I distinctly recall the scene in "The Longest Day" where the actor playing General Gavin tells his troops that their companions will be God-and an M-1 Garand.

John, as usual an interesting post. I look forward to your next.
Thanks!

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Regards, Ron
USASA 1965/69

I have one that belonged to an Army Engineer who served in the Pacific. He lived locally and had a long career with GM after the war. The gun and photos came from his estate after he died tragically about 8 years ago.

The president of a local carbine club worked up a spec sheet for me and the hammer and hammer spring are the only parts not original to the gun. The trigger housing shows two distinct strike marks and the gun presently has a type II hammer and a 26-½ coil spring, most likely a field upgrade.



Carbine photos
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Major R. Duke (later a Col.) Pacific theater photos
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"I also cook."

Hi:
My M1A1 Carbine is a Winchester or should I say "My former M1A1" as one of my Sons now has it. It came with the GI holster/carrying case.
Jimmy

Just an aside, the M1A1 was the preferred weapon of the Alamo Scouts fighting in the South Pacific.
"Shadows in the Jungle has photos of GI's in theatre with them and they're effectiveness is mentioned throughout the book.

John-

Your posts never fail to impress! Nice work, and the paratroopers shown also have the M-3 trench knife, something else not too common now.

Did you see the guy in the kubelwagen photo with his Garand leaning against the wall? His bayonet is fixed. Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't lean a rifle against a stone wall with the bayonet in place.

T-Star

I looks like the G.I. on the right in the second picture is holding some kind of large caliber revolver doesn't it ?

About 1960 M1A1's were made available to law enforcement agencies in Alabama and it wasn't unusual to see one hung on the driver's side of the cage separating front and back seats in patrol cars. Our small town police department got a case of the guns and sold some of them to locals for $25 as I recall. I got one of the guns and it was absolutely brand new. I kept it for a few years and traded it for something else. If I'd known what they would be selling for now, I would have kept it!

When my passion for collecting involved M1 Carbines, I had three M1A1's, along with one of each make of M1 Carbine, plus some different variations. Alas, I lost interest and sold all of them.

In the before mention era, the State of Florida purchased from the Federal Government for the FHP M1A1 Carbines for $10.00 per unit

I walked into a local gun store 10 minutes too late to buy a folding stock M1 Carbine about 10 years ago.
No idea if it was original because I never even got to handle it.

Very nice, I had a M1 Carbine which I regret selling now.

I think the officer in the first two photos is the same person. If you look closely at the kublewaggon photo I believe the solder standing in the road is also holding a Carbine, though the stock is behind his arm making it impossible to identify model.

Actually, I probably would and may have leaned my rifle against a wall with the bayonet fixed. I tended to worry more about the front sight getting bumped or scraped than an easily sharpened bayonet.

I have always liked folders, so when I got my CMP Inland M1 carbine, I looked for and found one of the M1A1 folding stocks.
After shooting it, and handling it, I found I much prefered the full stock on the carbine. The M1A1 pistol grip was too fat, and also short...the sling swivel on the bottom wedged my hand. I also didnt care much for the folding buttplate.
In any case, I enjoyed shooting the carbine of the Normandy troops.
BTW, my Inland serves as my HD longarm...I love my carbine!

In Audie Murphy´s To Hell and Back he tells about his taking down a german sniper with one.He seemed to favor them and the narrative of this episode is striking.Said sniper had already taking two men and he goes alone in the forest in search of him.Plenty of courage here.
Regards, Ray

As late as 1989/90 we still had M3A1s-mechanics had them in the VTRs (recovery vehicles)-accurate-very little recoil-reliable-you could fire from the hip and consistently pop targets out to 25 meters.
I have a Korean vintage M1 thats fun...only complaint is that the length of pull is about an inch too short-but out to 75 yards its great.

My CMP Inland is an honest 100yd weapon. I shoot grapefruit sized groups at that range to POA without trying hard.

The Sixth Army's Alamo Scouts were indeed issued M1A1 carbines. Here are some photos from the Pacific theatre.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

My eyes riveted on that revolver too. Wonder what it is?

Great photos! Love Carbines in all variations and love to see them in World War II photos.

Odd things happened supply wise in the Pacific, I've seen photos of Marines with them in the past. Didn't really stop to think about it at the time. Where they got them would be interesting.

OSS also got some, dropped them with teams into Vietnam to help the Vietminh and some went into the ETO in weapons drops.

I've also seen photos of them in the field in the Phillipines during the liberation. They weren't common, but there were airborne forces there, and once again, odd supply things seem to have cropped up.

They were supposed to go to officers, heavy weapons crew, radiomen, etc in airborne and (I think) gliberborne units. Burgett mentions a friendly fire death owing to one in one of his books. Since the stock doesn't lock, it isn't the most useful thing. For those interested, Choate finally got the concept right in recent years.

M3 greaseguns weren't officially replaced for issue until the adoption of the M4 carbine. Some went with tankers to the Gulf War. Some are still in inventory in that tin foil looking paper stuff, usually with a mag pouch, couple mags, and I think you have to screw the barrel in. They were cheap to make and had a long service life.

No telling how many of those I have been close to and never picked one up.
Nowadays, armed with the knowledge of them, it would be an honor to have one that went to war and came home. Funny how we focus on some things and leave other things alone. Maybe I'll cross paths with one some day and get a chance to own and shoot it awhile...Hope the owner likes S&Ws.

The price has put me off. And my son wants something more 'modernistic'. Wood stocks don't cut it with him. Man, I think I'll buy one anyway.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I only have five left. (Rockola, Inland, Quality, Underwood, Postal Meter) I had 13. I wish I hadn't sold the other eight as they are too hard to replace now. To understand carbines you just about have to have a degree in Carbineology. Lots of stuff swapped around. Some made all the parts, some only a few with other borrowed parts. To figure out what is a "correct" carbine can be mind boggling. I carried an Inland with two 30 round mags clamped together as a patrol rifle for several years. If you can shoot one they're just as good as the AR type patrol rifles. So are AK's, probably just not as politically correct.

Love my carbines too....Only have an IBM, a Quality Hardware and a High wood Underwood(marked Bavarian Forestry Police)....Enjoy them all....A friend has an original Inland M1A1......High $$ but I personally don't like it's wobbly folding stock.....

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S&W Accumulator

John Masters's books show them carried by British officers in Burma in WWII, but the normal wooden stocked variety.

Well now, let's not go overboard!

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You're shy a few manners.

My FIL was an Army Corps of Engineers in WWII, traveled all over the PTO.
He had one and was not impressed. I remember his story of hitting a sniper in a tree and it not stopping the sniper.

Overall, it's a nice weapon, just lacking power.

I showed him my Mini 30 in his later life and he looked at it and with the increased power over the .30 carbine round, he agreed it would have been the perfect caliber. Too bad it wasn't introduced in time.

I was in college working part time at a LGS. I ordered a Carbine from the agency that preceded the DCM. I paid $17.50 for it delivered by Railway Express to the local depot in Reno. I picked up the package and went to the gun store to open it. We all gathered around as I opened it. The second my Boss saw it he said, "Wait, a minute." He carefully brought it out of the package and said, "Would you look at that? It is a M2 Carbine!" We all took a good look at it while he called the local BATF. The local agent came down and we all had a good laugh. He took all the pertinent information and the carbine. He said, "I will take care of this and make sure that you get your M1 Carbine." In about two months a package arrived at the gunstore addressed to me. In it was an all but new M1 Carbine by Winchester with four new magazines also in the package. I foolishly sold the carbine about two years later.

I passed one up back in 1991 for $135. Dumbest gun screwup I ever made.

I had a "Frankenstein" carbine once. Back in 88-I was paying on one to give to my dad for Christmas. Well, he passed away in August--was several more months when I realized I was making payments. I went to the guy selling it to me-fully expecting it to be sold and money lost) I explained what happened and he said he still had it-had figured something bad had happened-and he let me finish paying on it-no harm no foul.

Boy that carbine was fun to shoot.

My first deer rifle was a M1A1 my dad bought through the NRA for $15. So much for 'assault weapons' only having one purpose.

Sorry to step on some toes of it's supporters, but it was an under powered and, at least in the case of mine, very inaccurate and undependable weapon. One of my step brothers has it now and I don't miss it in the least!

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

I remember a M-1 carbine that had a folding wire stock that folded underneath the gun like a Schmeisser sub gun. It also had a cone shaped flash surpressor and I thought it looked pretty cool at the time 25 years ago. Anyone know if these were military issue?

Nope. Aftermarket.

"I had a "Frankenstein" carbine once."

Assuming you mean a Carbine with mixed parts, most of them are, and even more are not original WWII manufacture. A few makers of carbines during WWII were mainly assemblers of parts from other makers, and the great majority of WWII carbines were completely overhauled after WWII with new sights and bayonet lugs added, and often new stocks. The Army was not concerned about keeping parts together during overhaul. Occasionally one runs across a "duffel bag special" from WWII which is completely original, and those are rarities.

An interesting aside, most of the carbines arsenal-overhauled after WWII were "mothballed" by sealing 20 at a time in large metal cans. Can you imagine the value of a sealed storage can full of carbines were one to turn up today?

That is correct to an extent but, the important thing is, they are fun as hell to shoot.

The new ones being made-with ""Paratrooper"" folding stocks--ive seen priced at gun shows for around $900 clams. Meeeze thinks thats toos much. If they were about $500? id get one.

Mine was an Iver-Johnson??? had a bayonet lug and a few other military parts-the rest-not mil. I had to sell it shortly after I got it-to help a bit with expenses due to dad's funeral. I was able to take it out a few times before it had to be sold. I knew why my dad liked them so much, I fell in love with the: "Bride of Frankenstein."

I'm fortunate enough to have acquired one such M1 carbine - as issued during WWII. This one walked in off the street as I was entering a large gun show. I examined it carefully - it's a Standard Products example, and amazingly, most of the parts were actually made at Standard Products in Port Clinton, Ohio. Even the magazine has the correct marking. It appears to have been made in early 1944. These are indeed exceptional rarities today. The price asked was reasonable (about 20 years ago), and I snapped it up before it could get to the gun show floor. It's featured in my 101 Classic Firearms book.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

I have one that I'm sure is a repro. Like most folding stock weapons at my first chance I would throw it away and pick up a fixed stock. The underfolder AF47 is a mother lover to shoot especially full auto. The only collapsible stock I like is on the AR15/M4. As far as I'm concerning the M1A1 was only meant to get you in and out of the airplane and initial defense until you could grab something better.

I've encountered two folding-stock rifles where the stock is rock solid when it's deployed. These are the FN FAL paratrooper model, and the Israeli Galil. I would throw neither of these away!

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

"... 'If you can shoot one they're just as good as the AR type patrol rifles. ...'

Well now, let's not go overboard!"

Can't say I'd want to get hit with a 110 gr softpoint at 1800 fps or so. Sounds nasty.

"An interesting aside, most of the carbines arsenal-overhauled after WWII were "mothballed" by sealing 20 at a time in large metal cans. Can you imagine the value of a sealed storage can full of carbines were one to turn up today?"

We might find out, if we ever get to see the Carbines (and Garands) that the South Koreans reportedly have that have not been allowed to be re-imported here...

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I bought this M1A1 a few years back. It came out of an armory in Italy at the end of WWII and sat in a closet for many years. It was still packed with cosmoline when I got it. Inland manufacture with an Inland 6-44 dated barrel. From what I've been able to research, the receiver is from 44 also. It has the later style adjustable rear sight (properly staked) , push button safety, modified mag release, and blued round bolt. Every part and all the wood is Inland marked. As far as I can tell, it's only been proof tested.

I had an original Inland carbine in mint condition that I found at a gun show. I knew the two dealers who had it and I got it for a very nice price as I had bought several guns from them before. I foolishly sold it to my buddy, who still has it, and I asked him once in a while if I can buy it back. Always tells me "NO".

Many throw rocks at the effectiveness of the .30 Carbine as a battle weapon. Obviously it is not a Garand, and was initially never intended to be used as a battle rifle. Its purpose was to arm rear area personnel (cooks, truck drivers, clerks, etc.) and officers as a more accurate weapon than a .45 Pistol. But it caught on. Audie Murphy used one all during his service, and he felt it was perfectly adequate for knocking over Germans. I once worked with a former Marine officer who hit all the beaches during the WWII island-hopping campaign in the Pacific, and he carried a Carbine the whole time. He once commented to me that he never shot a Jap who didn't fall down, and if he wasn't stopped, it was because an American Marine missed his target. Regarding grouping, the typical Carbine will throw 5-shot groups between 4" and 5" ES at 100 yards. Plenty good enough for it to be effective out to 200 yards. One weakness discovered in Korea was that it had reliability problems in very cold weather. Lots of stories came out of Korea about the .30 Carbine being unable to penetrate the quilted suits worn by the Chinese and North Korean troops. That's simply a falsehood - never happened.

In WWII my father was a glider pilot (warrant officer rank) assigned to fly in the 82nd airborne glider infantry on D-Day. He was equipped with a "grease gun" which I believe was a .45 cal submachine gun. The paratroopers in the first picture appear to have the same type knife that my father called a "survival knife" attached to their boots.

For the M1A1 carbine with a folding stock in the movies check out "Objective Burma" (1944) starring Errol Flynn as Captain Nelson who humps one of those through the jungle.

Your carbine appears to be a 5 million range gun. If so, and from your description, is in factory original condition. Very nice!

You are correct, the previously pictured M1A1 is serial# 5,285,XXX. It's the nicest one I've ever had the opportunity to buy.

Many of the carbine makers did not have the specialized tooling necessary to make barrels. Thus many carbines wore barrels by other makers when they left the factory. One example is National Postal Meter, which did not make barrels. Most of theirs had Underwood barrels but there were a few other makers. For the complete, and I do mean complete, word on all this, read Larry Ruth's book "War Baby".