Rifle or Shotgun??

[deadin]

Here’s a little piece I recently picked up at a local gunshow…



It is a Flobert chambered in 9mm Long Shot cartridge. These guns were popular in the 1890’s through the early 20th century and came in basically two varieties.
The first being what was called a “Parlor” gun usually chambered in 4.5mm or 6mm BB cap. For those that didn’t know, Flobert invented the Bulleted Breech Cap in the 1840’s by, basically, inserting a round ball in the front of a standard percussion cap and used only the fulminate as a propellent. This evolved into the 22 Short that we know and was used in the first S&W Model 1 revolvers.
Later chambering of the Flobert were 7mm and 9mm rimfire with round ball, conical ball and shot being available. (The RB and CB rounds were much shorter than the shot cartridges.) The “Parlor” guns were intended for indoor parlor shooting while the larger versions were called “Garden” guns and were mainly meant for vermin control.

This piece uses the Warnant breeching system which is an actual locked breech, unlike the original Floberts that the hammer is the breech, held closed only by the strength of the hammer spring.



As shown the breech block is a trapdoor type that drops down on its pivots, is buttressed by a standing breech at the rear of the frame as is locked in place by a notch in the hammer that engages the block before the primer is struck. The two arms (or legs) that protrude forward from the breechblock are strictly pivot arms that allow the block to be opened and have nothing to do with the locking mechanism.

This particular rifle was made in Belgium sometime after 1893 and was exported to Austria and sold by a retailer in Vienna. (Nik Szailer & Comp. Wein) This retailer went out of business around 1910, so the gun was made sometime in the interim.

I was drawn to this by the overall seemingly higher quality of the finish and line engraving, the double set triggers and, when I checked the bore, I was sold….



I had heard of straight rifling but have never actually seen an example, even less owned one…..
I'm not exactly sure what it was supposed to accomplish, but it's kind of neat....

[Targets Guy]

That's a beauty.

[HOUSTON RICK]

Very nice historical piece. Thank you for posting!

[Brian in Oregon]

When an unpatched round ball travels down a smooth bore, it can drag in some areas, inducing a spin. This can lead to the ball yawing after it leaves the muzzle.

The closest practical comparison is a pitcher throwing a curve ball, causing the baseball to yaw by imparting a spin to it.

The purpose of the straight rifling is to prevent the ball from turning in the bore, preventing yawing.

[Radco]

Beautiful Rifle, and a GREAT History lesson Very cool
I would like to see more threads like this

[vonn]

Learn something new everyday around here. Thanks for posting an interesting bit of history.

[deadin]

The purpose of the straight rifling is to prevent the ball from turning in the bore, preventing yawing.

I had heard that one and I do agree that just making the ball the same size as the bore would induce a lot of friction and drag on the ball. By rifling, even with the same size lands and grooves, it should cut the friction in half. (Wide grooves and narrow lands would be even better.)
I also heard that it was to give a place for the Black Powder fouling to build up before it clogged the bore.

Didn't Thompson Center or some maker use a straight rifled "concentrator" add-on to the muzzle for one of their rifled 45-70(?) pistols so you could shoot .410 shot in it and still keep some semblance of a pattern??

[Comrad]

I looked up patina in the dictionary and there was a picture of your gun.

Beautiful.

[lebomm]

Beautiful old piece - thanks for posting it !

Larry

[2152hq]

Straight rifling was an early attempt at choke,,or tightening shot patterns. It was also thought to be of some use in increasing the accuracy of a round ball load used in the same gun.
The Germans and Austrians used it for a while during the muzzle loading period then pretty much abandoned the idea but once in a while they appear in an early cartridge gun.

That it would show up on a Flobert made in Belgium is interesting. Many thousands of them were made there of all kinds and calibers for sale all over the world. Extra effort had to go into the making of the gun with straight rifling as it was not common at all in the cartridge era.


Thompson Center had a straight rifled 'choke like device' for one of their Contender bbls chambered in 45Colt/.410.
The device was supposed to be used when shooting the 410 shot shells and it's purpose was to arrest the spin induced by the bbls rifling on the shot load. The straight rifled device grabbed the spinning shot load projectile and supposedly made it exit the bbl w/o any spin improving the pattern.
(I've heard Some claim the rifling lands in the device also serrated the plastic wad a bit so it spread the pattern open more, but if it did, I'd see that as a minus instead of a plus. But I did watch one guy shoot a near perfect skeet round with one!).

The BATF jumped on the duel chambered bbl and claimed when it was mounted on the Contender frame the owner had a shot=pistol in their possession. It all went to court and TC won and the combination was allowed to stand. It is rifled after all.
Probably why we have the Judge & Co 45/410s around today.

[MCorps0311]

Awesome,thank for sharing it.

[deadin]

That it would show up on a Flobert made in Belgium is interesting.

I wonder what the chance would be that the Austrian retailer had it rifled (or rifled it himself) after delivery from Belgium. He was listed as a gunsmith c. 1890

[deadin]

Here's similar Belgian pistol from the same era.
Only it's a rolling block and definitely NOT a parlor pistol as it is chambered in .450 Long.

[fyimo]

Never seen anything like that but it's an interesting and beautiful piece.

[Brian in Oregon]

Originally Posted by 2152hq

Straight rifling was an early attempt at choke,,or tightening shot patterns. It was also thought to be of some use in increasing the accuracy of a round ball load used in the same gun.
The Germans and Austrians used it for a while during the muzzle loading period then pretty much abandoned the idea but once in a while they appear in an early cartridge gun.

That it would show up on a Flobert made in Belgium is interesting. Many thousands of them were made there of all kinds and calibers for sale all over the world. Extra effort had to go into the making of the gun with straight rifling as it was not common at all in the cartridge era.


Thompson Center had a straight rifled 'choke like device' for one of their Contender bbls chambered in 45Colt/.410.
The device was supposed to be used when shooting the 410 shot shells and it's purpose was to arrest the spin induced by the bbls rifling on the shot load. The straight rifled device grabbed the spinning shot load projectile and supposedly made it exit the bbl w/o any spin improving the pattern.
(I've heard Some claim the rifling lands in the device also serrated the plastic wad a bit so it spread the pattern open more, but if it did, I'd see that as a minus instead of a plus. But I did watch one guy shoot a near perfect skeet round with one!).

The BATF jumped on the duel chambered bbl and claimed when it was mounted on the Contender frame the owner had a shot=pistol in their possession. It all went to court and TC won and the combination was allowed to stand. It is rifled after all.
Probably why we have the Judge & Co 45/410s around today.

But California, the land of Nonsense Gun Control, banned the .45/.410 combo barrels anyway.

[2152hq]

Originally Posted by Brian in Oregon

But California, the land of Nonsense Gun Control, banned the .45/.410 combo barrels anyway.

Gotta watch those state and local laws....