Goony,

I researched this a bit more, and I just managed to get myself more confused. I looked in Zhuk, Gangarosa, and Gunmarks, and neither of the two trademarks in this thread look very close the Tracoala, Aranzábal y Cia marks shown in those references. The two shown in Gunmarks are:



The bottom one matches those shown in Zhuk and Gangarosa. It appears that either:

• TAC had a number of different trademarks, or
• Another Spanish firm was copying TAC

I just don't know.

Buck

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TAC Trademarks.jpg (41.5 KB, 7881 views)

Well, to muddy the waters even further, here's yet another variation on the theme, this one in a shield motif found on the barrel of one of the company's shotguns. Trocaola, Aranzabal y Cia evidently could no more settle on a trademark than a teenaged girl can on a nail polish color.

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TAC TM.jpg (44.9 KB, 85 views)

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

I understand Gene Gangarosa has a new book on Spanish firearms. I haven't seen it yet. My reference is "Spanish Pistol Makers 1875 To 1940" by Joseph T. Vorisek. It's copyrighted 1993 and published by Armsco Press, PO Box 384, Canton, CT, 06019. Lots of good information, although the book is very cheaply produced.

Gangarosa's book (published by Stoeger, ISBN 0-88317-223-2) dates back to 2001, unless there is a sequel or newer edition I'm unaware of. It's still readily available, but has suddenly gotten quite pricey, so far as I can see.

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SpanHand.jpg (33.4 KB, 211 views)

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

It is very shiny like a nickel (little blackening in some areas). on one side of the barrel says 38 LONG CTG then it has a Lion, next to that is a Crest with an X in the middle with crown on top next to that is another Lion. Above the both of those are P.N

On top of barrel says: USE U.S. STANDARD AMMUNITION
the other side of barrel says: GUARANTEED NEW 1926 MODEL

On the cylinder is another Lion
Inside the cylinder is the numbers 3 4 twice

Under the grip on the butt is: B.G. in an oval with numbers next to it reading 8498

The other side is stamped Made in Spain

I have searched everywhere and cannot find the same exact one-similar but not the same. (Has no makers mark , i.e. Eibar etc).gun4 (1024x768).jpg

gun5 (1024x768).jpg

gun6 (1024x768).jpg

gun8 (1024x768).jpg

gun9 (1024x768).jpg

Well, the proof marks are indicative of manufacture in Eibar no sooner than 1929. There were some very small gunmakers in Spain around that time, and it may prove impossible to attribute your gun definitively to one of them. The fit and finish aspect appears to be at least decent. From a design standpoint, it has a sideplate, which is a good sign, but lacks a barrel lug for the ejector rod tip, which isn't so good.

It's most likely chambered for the .38 Long Colt cartridge, which is not the same as .38 Special. Not knowing what level of experience and sophistication you have with respect to firearms, I want to emphasize that attempting to fire .38 Special in ths gun would be hazardous. In fact, if you are going to shoot this at all, even with the correct ammunition, a once over by a professional gunsmith would be in order.

__________________
SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

The revolver may be a copy of the S&W Hand Ejector Model of 1926, due to the barrel marking. It appears to have a larger bore than .38 and is likely a .44 Russian or .44 Special. However, the cylinder doesn't doesn't appear large enough for .44's. The poster needs to measure the chambers and bore to confirm which it is.

I'm going to take a guess that the "B.G" in the oval is for Benito Guisasola, a known maker of better class revolvers copied from S&W.

The proof marks are interesting in that the the Lion pistol proof should not have been used after 12/14/29, and the "crown over shield with X" admission-to-proof mark should have been used after 12/14/29. Maybe the gun dates from around the changeover.

Obviously, an gunsmith needs to evaluate condition and determine caliber before you shoot it, if you intend to do so.

Buck

Well I made it over...Thanks Mr Goony......I myself have recently fell into the Spanish copy pit,which is really a cool copy of the Frontier...The best I can find out is that the gun was made in the WWI era (1915 Contract. these were made for England by the three Hermanos brothers) and is in 455 cal. Across top of barrel is Smith Pattern Made in Spain. on right side is the trade mark of Guisasela Hermanos of Eibar Spain. Checking my proof mark book shows a Crown over CP (London Eng) & a Crown over V (shows London Proof) this is in the barrel. The Crown over V also shows on frame near break latch and cylinder...frame, barrel,and cylinder show a 50 which I'm guessing is a serial number....what I can't find in any book is on the back strap is C4E9...also on back strap an L over 34 (which I am guessing is the newly formed 34th Division at the time)....can anyone elaborate further on this weapon ....thanks

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Previous postcount 800+

Goony, I picked this one up this last weekend I have done a little research on the web, I was told the helmet and shield are the crest for a company called JL Galef, that is what it says on the top of the barrel,
JL Galef NY sole distributor USA 1924 reformed model, & on the side of the barrel it says 38 special ctg. behind the trigger guard on the frame is stamped SPAIN
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

An importer known mostly for its association with Beretta. They did deal in revolvers made by Orbea Hermanos, although I don't think yours in one of those, but rather the product of some other (likely very obscure) Eibar firm. Regardless, it looks to be pretty nicely finished and in outstanding condition, and being chambered for .38 Special is also a plus.

It's interesting that it's marked as a model of 1924, since I believe the government's requirement for marking country of origin changed from just "Spain" to "Made in Spain" in 1923. It probably dates to the 1920's in any case.

Attached Images

Galef.jpg (89.0 KB, 125 views)

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Thats the exact crest thats on the frame, I bought it as a novelty it didn't cost much, I just remember seeing this post last month and thought I would see if you had seen one. It cycles in DA and SA but if you wiggle the cylinder you can get it to rotate clockwise looking from behind the hammer, so I'll never shoot it, it doesn't have a side plate so all the internals have to be accessed thru the trigger guard. Oh well something to talk about.

I have one that looks identical with same markings in the same location (but not as clear as these),although mine is .38 long (that marking is clear).It has numbers stamped on major components with a different number and a letter stamped on the butt.Could any one tell me what these numbers represent.

First off, welcome to the forum.

With an older Smith & Wesson, the answer is simple - some of the numbers on components (yoke, inside the yoke recess and sideplate) are merely for reference during the manufacturing process, while the all-important serial number is on the butt, as well as the underside of the barrel, the rear face of the cylinder, and the backside of the extractor.

With a Spanish copy, these guidelines may not apply. Posting some photos of the various markings could help us in sorting their significance out. I would, generally speaking, still expect the number on the butt to be the serial number, but without seeing it, I can't rule out that it's a some sort of rack or property number instead.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

I have an "old" S&W Look alike that I think was made by Euskaro. It is a 5-shot 38-Special, top break, nickel plated, pearl handle revolver. I have attached pictures below. It has a distintive "trade mark" stamped on it. The {nickel ?)plating is too badly deterioated to be able to clearly read the markings on top of the barrel, but I think it says "Smith & Wesson Cartridges and those that fit Best the Euskaro Revolver". It appears to still be in firing condition, although I have NOT fired it.

Can anybody help me with any additional information about this gun?



[email protected]

Thanks in advance....
Darryl

So far as I can tell from various sources, the "Euskaro" marking is some sort of general appellation that was applied to various types of revolvers made by numerous different makers. I'm not sure which of those this particular trademark denotes, but I wouldn't be surprised if the "H" component stands for "hermanos" (Spanish for "brothers") as part of the company name, and there were several of these in the early 20th century ranging from the well known (such as Orbea Hermanos) to some very obscure and short-lived firms.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

I have a variety of S&W copies, knock-offs and lookalikes, not all Spanish, and mostly more modern than what's been shown in this thread.

Here are some .44 Magnums: Model 29-2 and its Spanish, American and German cousins

From right to left:
S&W Model 29-2
Llama Super Comanche (Spanish)
Astra Model 44 (Spanish)
High Standard Crusader (US)
RG Model 57 (German)






A Brazilian Ladysmith knockoff: Some Ladysmiths and their Brazilian cousin (picture heavy)





Modern Italian reproductions of the Model 3 Russian, and Schofield: Uberti Model 3 Russian at lunchtime





And although I haven't written a commentary on them yet, here are some .22 Model 17 doppelgangers. From right to left :

S&W Model 17-3
Taurus Model 96 (Brazil)
Llama Martial (Spanish)
Llama Comanche (Spanish)





I resisted buying a Spanish-made Triple Lock copy a couple of months ago because it was in such loose condition - now I kinda wish I'd gotten it. They wouldn't let me take a picture of it: I did NOT buy a Triple Lock for $350

Duplicate.

I have an opportunity to purchase this. 32 20. I couldn't get the cylinder open. 85 percent maybe 90 cosmetically. Light turn line. Comes with 20 rounds of ball ammo.
I could probably get it for $35-40.
Made in Spain. ALFA.

How do these open?

Probably just like a S&W Hand Ejector. Depending on what the internals are, it way have a similar problem - the ejector unscrews under recoil and prevents the cylinder from opening. Try to screw the ejector rod and cylinder together to get clearance to open. I'm going to assume that the threads are right-hand.

Buck

The first is a S&W "improved": all the dimensions are a little oversize, to give a better balanced and sturdier gun.
.38 S&W, made by "Trocaola, Aranzabal y Cia" (TAC on the right side and on the grips),
"SMITH & WESSON'S AMERICAN METALLIC CARTRIDGES
ARE TO BE USED FOR OUR MODEL OF REVOLVER" on the barrel.
SW_DA_38_espagnol_a.jpg

The other one is a clone of my 4rth model, with
"SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS. PATENTS AP.S.55 JULY ? 5? ????" on the barrel. On the left frame side, "1901" in diagonal, with some sort of little inverted "5". But on the back of the cylinder, the Belgian proofmark ELG.
SW_DA_38_belge_b.jpg

Has anybody an idea on these revolvers, well made and both in good shape ?

I was wondering if anyone may have some info on my Spanish S&W copy. Thanks!

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Mike

Sorry to resurrect the thread. Here is a Smill and Welson

Hi here are some photos of my .44 SPL.
I am in need for a hammer if anybody knows where to find one or if the S&W hammer can be used please send me a PM or post here.

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Mines a 32 Winchester. Missing cylinder latch assembly, getting
tired of looking for parts.

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image.jpg (225.3 KB, 147 views)

How can you tell what one is chambered to? My has Trocaola aramzabal y cia eibar (espana) on the top of barrel. It has F 31962 on bottom of grip. and on bottom of barrel 3 0 4 ?

P092915_1741.jpg

P092915_1739.jpg

I just picked up a TAC .32 long off of gunbroker. Will post pics later. I fully intend to fire it with light loads, but even most manufactured .32 S&W longs are quite anemic by today's standards.

It has a great deal of wobble when opened, like the crane needs shimmed inside the frame. A quick search on the net shows a complete dearth of parts .

This revolver looks like a very good copy of a 5 screw .32 HE and was probably made between the wars. It looks and feels like an I frame, not a K. So...............Does anyone know if S&W shims will fit? But even if, try to find S&W shims labelled for I-frames?! Will K frame shims fit in an I frame? I knew this was going to be fun a project!

Any Ideas as to where i could find parts?? I need a hammer, mine came with a back yard gunsmithing hammer , sear is all but gone

Unless you know what brand it is and find a parts gun, custom made is all you're going to get.

Just now discovered this very interesting thread!

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John
S&WCA Life Member

Eibar 1925 .32 Was in a box of stuff I bought. Read all about old Spanish copies not being safe. Not planning on shooting it. This locks up tight and appears to time well. Some wear but no rust and the bore and rifling not bad. Pretty dirty when I got it and did a quick clean. Can take better pictures under natural light tomorrow.

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	eibar.jpg (86.0 KB, 143 views)
	eibar frame stampings.jpg (86.8 KB, 110 views)
	eibar barrel script.jpg (35.3 KB, 81 views)

Better lighting photo

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eibar L.jpg (141.3 KB, 113 views)

Does anyone know if there is a data base of Spanish trade marks for S&W copies? I recently picked up one chambered in .32/20 (WCF) at an auction because of the emblem, (appears to be brass), on the grips resembled the Japanese chrysanthemum but does not have 16 pedals as does the original Imperial Seal of Japan. The trade mark looks like two footballs, one horizontal, and the other vertical with letters inside the center area. I gave it to my gunsmith to check over today and will take and post some pictures of it when he finishes his inspection.

James

Here is mine. Still don't know much about this 38
Serial number 3451

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I've a spanish top break in 44 russian. Nickle plated but the bore looks like a thousand points of darkness. Tried a 44 special case and as it would only go in part way I guess its a 44 russian. Frank

Does anyone know who this maker is? It is on a Spanish copy of what appears to me a Model 1910 chambered in .32 WCF (.32/20). Also I've not seen a grip medalion quite like this either. Any thoughts from anyone? Many thanks.
James

Do you have more pictures? Overall and other markings?

I'll take a couple of the entire revolver and post them. There aren't many additional markings.

James

Check under the grip, and on the rear face of the cylinder.

Here are the only marks on the revolver. There are initials, (WT & WTL), scratched into the inside of both grips. Not shown is the caliber marking on the left side of the barrel which reads, "32 WCF". There were no markings on the rear face of the cylinder.
James

That's going to be some small shop knockoff. The "Used best fit" text is textbook. If it's mechanically sound, it's probably safe to fire. If it has any end shake, significant gap, indexing errors, don't shoot it.

Either way, I wouldn't shoot it much. The lifespan could be in "hundreds" of rounds vs thousands.

If you saw the Forgotten Weapons episode with the "Smill and Wellson," which might even be in this thread, that thing is so loose it's more dangerous to people next to me than anyone downrange.

Apparently it wasn't in the thread already. Here is my authentic Smill & Welson, Sprangfeld, Mus, EUA. The holy grail of revolvers.

I noticed the same six pointed star on the grip of the pistol at the very bottom of the page on this link. I am curious if this is an indication of a possible manufacturer?

Nouvelle page 0

James

It's not quite the same, but it could be. Littlegun charges 10 Euros a year and will do their best to ID anything you have, particularly Belgian, but some Spanish.

Picked this one up at a church auction.

Got this old Spanish copy that was missing the mainspring. Found a repo mainspring from Dixie Gun Works for it but it will require a bit of fitting to work. Has anyone here have any experience doing this. some expert advise would be appreciated. The top of the barrel has TROCAOLA ARAMZABAL Y Cia EIBAR on it and looks to be chambered for the 8mm lebel revolver round. Also does anyone know where to find a schematic of these revolvers?

TROCAOLA ARAMZABAL Y Cia EIBAR REVOLVER.jpg

There's unlikely to be a schematic if you didn't find one on a quick google search. There were lots of small makers in the Eibar region.

8mm Lebel revolver (8mm French Ordnance) is available sporadically from Prvi, and several custom loaders including Reed's Ammunition and Research. It's a fun cartridge to shoot, about on par with .32 long. I have both a French 1893 and a Belgian pocket revolver that shoot it, and about 5 boxes on hand.

In post #74 also.

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Grumpy Old Man With a Gun