Let's Have a File on Training rifles

Cyrano · #1 11-21-2011, 05:36 PM

Here's mine. Unfortunately a S&W 15-22 isn't among them...yet. And let's open it up to subcaliber conversion units, too. I don't know how I got so many of these things; they just acumulated: I don't collect them, except for the US military ones.

I'm looking for a Hoffer-Thompson now, but they're rare and the cartridge adapters are almost as rare. The story I heard on these is that some got to France by mistake in WWI, and were issued, complete with a bandolier of 30-06 ammo to soldiers going into the trenches. I wouldn't want to go over the top with that combination. They were recalled, taken out of service and destroyed, which is why they are so scarce.

Thumbnails:
#1: Top: US M2 Springfield. I fired one of these for three years on an ROTC rifle team in the early 50s. This one, however, came out of a Navy surplus sale in Norfolk, VA, about 1963.....for $25; eat your heart out.
Bottom: Remington 513T. They gave us these in my senior year in ROTC. I don't think it helped my score.

#2: Top: Krag with Stevens-Pope 22 caliber barrel in 22 short. The barrel is bored off center to use the centerfire firing pin and extractor.
Bottom: Winder Musket in 22 short. Some were in 22 LR, and I think some were made on hi-wall actions.

3. Top: French MAS 45. When France occupied Oberndorf after WW II, they found parts and machining to build these rifles and made them as training rifles. Later the machinery was moved to St Etienne and production continued.
Bottom: French Berther M 1916. Originally in 8mm Lebel. The throat was reamed to take the Balle N in the 1930s, after that it was sleeved to 22 as a single shot.

#4: Top: French scholar rifle, used by scholar battalions in the 1880s and '90s, roughly similiar to our junior ROTC. They were made by many diferent firms, each with its own design. This one was made by Manufrance and is the Carabine "Populaire" Scolaire. They were later made in 22 LR. This one is in 6mm Bosquette rimfire, a short cartridge designed for training rifles and garden control. I shoot 22 shorts in it; it's not very accurate with them.
Bottom: Canadian Ross straight pull training rifle in 22 LR.

#5: Marking on the butt of the Ross; evidentally it served with several units of the Canadian Army. I can't decypher the markings.

guy22 · #2 11-21-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrano

Here's mine. Unfortunately a S&W 15-22 isn't among them...yet. And let's open it up to subcaliber conversion units, too. I don't know how I got so many of these things; they just acumulated: I don't collect them, except for the US military ones.

I'm looking for a Hoffer-Thompson now, but they're rare and the cartridge adapters are almost as rare. The story I heard on these is that some got to France by mistake in WWI, and were issued, complete with a bandolier of 30-06 ammo to soldiers going into the trenches. I wouldn't want to go over the top with that combination. They were recalled, taken out of service and destroyed, which is why they are so scarce.

Go to Rimfirecentral. They have one.

Guy22

Cyrano · #3 11-21-2011, 10:10 PM

A 15-22 or a Hoffer-Thompson?

mick1213 · #4 11-21-2011, 10:23 PM

Cyrano, all those are nice, especially the MAS45.
Here are a few of mine, these are German DSM34s, from the mid to late 1930's.

DeathGrip · #5 11-21-2011, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrano

A 15-22 or a Hoffer-Thompson?

What's more available?

My theory is get 'em while you can.If its what you want.I'd opt for the rarer of the two every time because you lose the chance of getting another everyday.

BTW great topic and I've recently started to look more at trainers.

Cyrano · #6 11-21-2011, 11:52 PM

Mick: Great stuff!! Is that a ZF 41 scope on one of them? I don't dare show this to a friend: he collects Mauser pistols and would love to have just one of those rifles.

mick1213 · #7 11-22-2011, 12:10 AM

Cyrano, thanks and that is a ZF-41. love the 22 trainers.most of mine are German, but the CMP is changing that.

Cyrano · #8 11-22-2011, 12:13 AM

CMP.......Oh drat, I forgot one: a CMP Kimber 22. Uncanny accurate but almost too heavy for me to shoot offhand.

2152hq · #9 11-22-2011, 02:07 AM

I have a SMLE No2MkIV 22cal trainer.
New Zealand marked and their issue date in 1924 stamped on the ID disc. The orig yr/mfg or the rifle was 1915 or 16 IIRC
Turns in some pretty good groups at 50m if I do my part. The original windadge adj rear sight is nice.

Re: Hoffer Thompson 'cartridges'.
I bought some from Dixie Gun Works back in the late 60's or early 70's out of their catalog. Only a couple bucks a piece if that back then.
Wish I'd kept some!!,,kinda pricey now.
I gave my last one away to a friend (I thought!) at the time who had a H/T Springfield.

CH47gunner · #10 11-22-2011, 09:15 PM

I picked up this MAS45 a few months ago - pics are from when I was cleaning the cosmoline off. She was brand new and still wrapped in wax paper, & untouched by human hands. Came w/ sling & 6 magazines.
I'd seen one of these before & swore if I ever saw another one, I'd buy it.

Bruce

DeathGrip · #11 11-22-2011, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CH47gunner

I picked up this MAS45 a few months ago - pics are from when I was cleaning the cosmoline off. She was brand new and still wrapped in wax paper, & untouched by human hands. Came w/ sling & 6 magazines.
I'd seen one of these before & swore if I ever saw another one, I'd buy it.

Bruce

I swear I have the same washer and dryer.

I'm gonna have to take some inspired protection pics now.

What gun to protect the laundry?

RonJ · #12 11-22-2011, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrano

CMP.......Oh drat, I forgot one: a CMP Kimber 22. Uncanny accurate but almost too heavy for me to shoot offhand.

Here's one. I don't think they're are quite up tp 40X standards but they are close. I also have the Kimber supplied aperture sights that came with it.
You're right shooting offhand is a chore.

mick1213 · #13 11-23-2011, 08:09 PM

Fine rifles! Here are a few US marked trainers, a Mossberg 44US, and a trio of Remington 513t's.

Faulkner · #14 11-24-2011, 01:21 PM

I have a trio of Mossberg model 44US training rifles. Got through the CMP in great condition and they are sweet shooting rifles.

Back about 10 years ago when the CMP had a bunch of them they were selling for about $75 each I bought half a dozen and gave them as Christmas presents to my two sons and my four nephews.

Bob R · #15 11-24-2011, 06:06 PM

So here you are, some conscript fresh off the potato farm in the countryside near Gdansk and you have only seen firearms when the poilce or Army drives through the village.

But, now you are in the Army, and you need to learn how to shoot, something so foreign to you it might as well be brain surgery.

The gun you will learn on is a Polish WZ48. A small single shot 22 that is based on the Mosin-Nagant M38. With this gun you get a 8.5 pound 22 that makes very little noise and has no recoil. Just the ticket for training the people who are new to guns. The main difference between the MN and this guy is the receiver. This gun's receiver is based on the 1920's Mauser.

bob

Joe in SC · #16 11-24-2011, 07:39 PM

No pictures, but I have a couple. I have a MAS45 and it is accurate but too darn heavy for a sporter bbl. I also have a US marked Stevens 416 that will give just about any .22 target rifle a run for it's money. I have a 44US Mossberg and it's a fun inexpensive gun that will shoot pretty good but not on par with the 416.